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Post by Heather on Jun 15, 2016 23:10:19 GMT -5
Name: Nannah HF Forum Username: Nannah Please confirm that you are 18 years of age or older: yes! I'm 25 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? I'm . . . not really sure where I first learned about it, to be honest. but it was definitely online somewhere. 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I would like to switch my babies to a totally raw diet, and I'm interested in whole prey (but not live). I don't think I could stomach live prey. :S 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? because I want to give my ferrets the best care possible. I want them to live long, happy lives! 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It requires a commitment of several months at minimum. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switching your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as committed. The switch takes time and effort every single day. It can also be extremely frustrating at times. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc), or limited time due to work, then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing and realistically able to make the neccessary time commitment? Yes! I'm very committed. I'm disabled, so I'm home every day to tend to them and to this process. I have lots of time. it will also help me, to keep me occupied with something. 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? I have two ferrets: Misio (male) and Kinga (female). They are both around 2-3 years old (the previous owner didn't know). they don't have any health problems as of now - had them checked with a vet in April. Misio was a bit overweight in April, but he's slimmed down a bit since then. I've had them both since February of this year(around Valentine's Day). 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup? I have them on a mix of kibbles. :S Blue Buffalo chicken cat food, Instinct Duck and Turkey, and the old cat food they were on when I got them. I do give them Ferretone supplements, but I read that contains a carcinogen? so I have salmon oil in my amazon shopping cart right now, and am going to use that instead. I did use bandit treats, too, but am definitely going to stop that, too. 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? ha, I only tried feeding them a raw egg once. they wouldn't touch it, even with crumbled kibble on top. 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? ummm, I think Misio will be the tough one here, he's the most finnicky, haha. Kinga adapts pretty well. I'm not sure what else to say in this spot? 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? All the time. 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). Hi and welcome to the mentoring program . In a little while your mentor (Machan), will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun (dance) . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 18:52:45 GMT -5
Hi nannah! I'm Machan, I'll be helping you to transition your ferrets to a species appropriate diet. ^u^ I'm just about to head out into town for a Doctors appointment, so I'll keep things short for now. If you like, you can read more about me on the Meet Your Mentor page. holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/176/meet-mentorFerrets imprint on their foods around 6 months of age, So both Misio and Kinga are at an age where they may be a little more stubborn when it comes to changing diets, but thats okay, we'll go with the flow without any rushing. I love the names Misio and Kinga as well! Misio kind of reminds me of Miso soup and Kinga reminds me of a Pokemon called Kingdra for some reason lol. Before we begin, could you upload some dangle photos (hold the ferret up so their body dangles) so I can get a good look at their weights. If you also know the weights that would be fantastic to add at the start of the thread. How are Misio and Kinga today? I think the best way to approach your transition would be for your lovely two to start with the soup stage. Here is the recipe:I'll be back on tonight so I can check in and then we'll look into starting the transition. Have a good day, or night? haha!
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nannah
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Posts: 232
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Post by nannah on Jun 16, 2016 20:37:12 GMT -5
Hi, Machan! haha, thanks! they're Polish names, tbh, (Misio means "teddy bear" ) but kingdras are pretty cool too, so that works! they were very sleepy at first because it was kind of a hazy, cloudy morning. they just took a spot and snuggled for a while, but then I gave them a new toy and it was Play Time. ok, here are the photos (these are the type of photos you want, right?): Kinga and then Misio (oh god he looks thin, but he's gained weight . . .?) weights:Kinga: 512.5 grams (1.13lbs) Misio: 1270 grams (2.8lbs) the soup stage would be great, yeah! I have all the ingredients for the it, and I'm going to thaw them out so I can make it tomorrow (it's evening here right now) if that's ok. unfortunately they're frozen at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2016 0:18:56 GMT -5
Wow Polish names! That's awesome! Misio is such a cute name, definitely suits him! (My computer keeps trying to auto-correct Misio to Missy ) Love the photos! The dangle photos are to help me get a good idea on weights. When you take the dangle photos, their bodies should look like a cylinder. Here's an example
From the photos you posted, I can see that the fur appears little rough looking on Misio. You'll start to notice difference in the coat within the first couple of weeks of transitioning. It's wonderful. They go really soft and look more full. You may also start seeing more energy within the first week. With the soup, once they are eating on their own, they may have increased appetite. This happens when their ferret bodies start getting all the nutrients they need from the raw, that was missing in commercial ferret foods. Misio does look thin, but his weight is pretty good!! He's about the same size as my Beavis. I'm impressed with Kinga as well, I was expecting her to be small, but she looks pretty big in the photo (maybe its just the photo) She has a gorgeous face. Start the soup stage when ever you like. Remember to thaw the raw out in the refrigerator. I like to remove meals the night before so that they thaw. Another great tip for the soup after you've prepped it, would be to get an ice tray, put some plastic wrap over it and then put the soup in the tray to freeze. The cubes of soup equal to about 1oz, and its also easier to bag the meals. Before you start, I recommend that you remove the kibble at least 2 hours in advance. This is to ensure that they don't get any stomach upsets. You can reintroduce the kibble 2 hours after you feed the morning meal, if you like, but preferably it would be good to keep pushing the soup onto them instead. If you notice they snub their faces at it, then try spoon feeding it to them. Dabbing some soup on the gums, a little at a time until they lick it off, can help to introduce the new food to them. One last thing before I run off, During the transition I will give you some lessons, as well as reading material to study from. I may quiz you here and there (nothing too hard) just to make sure you're on the right track. If you have any concerns, questions or unsure about what ever, feel free to let me know~ Have a good night then~~
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nannah
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Posts: 232
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Post by nannah on Jun 17, 2016 21:23:40 GMT -5
awww, thanks! :') ok, I retook the photos. they're a bit grainy, sorry! Misio: Kinga: and it'll be so nice to see Misio's fur filling in and getting nicer thanks for all the advice! hopefully I'll start the soup stage tomorrow. and yeah, I'd love to learn anything I can!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2016 22:11:40 GMT -5
Great work! I also forgot to mention a few things before, so I'll mention them now. ----------------------------- Once a week, I will request some information from you~ Please copy/paste this very short questionnaire into your switching thread every Sunday/Monday. This will help us to see any changes from the new diet and to see the progress. With question (4) you're more than welcome to post poop photos if you would like. It also helps to describe the texture, colour and such. Speaking of poop, it can tell us a lot about the ferrets health. Stools will change from meal to meal, also from protein to protein sometimes. Sometimes ferrets may even have the odd funky poop, this is nothing to worry about. New diet, new food, new protein may all cause some form of a funky poop. Stool can also tell us if they need more or less bone in their diet. Seedy, dry looking poop can indicate a ferret has too much bone in their diet, whereas loose stool may indicate that the ferret require a little more bone in their diet. Organ poops will be loose and dark from the blood rich meal, sometimes it may even smell (but really not all that bad, organs smell so it makes sense). You can view a poop chart here.
Because organ meals can be loose, most of us have a bone meal following after the organ meal. (eg. Monday AM: Kidney/Liver (organ meal), Monday PM: Bone meal.)For the first few weeks on a raw diet, ferret's bodies go through -what we raw feeders like to call- a detox phase. This may last up to about... 2-3 weeks (sometimes even up to 5 weeks). During this time, you may notice an slight increase in funky (and possibly smelly) poops. This is simply their bodies begin eliminating all the toxins from kibble and then begin using the wide variety of nutrients from their new raw diet. (More nutrients = More energy!) The detoxing won't last too long, After a few weeks you will notice that the smell goes down, their poop will become smaller, less smelly, less funky because their bodies begin to adjust to the new diet. Their coats may go from a coarse texture, to a soft, silky and smooth texture. ----------------------------- Oh! And another wonderful thing -- Grape tail!
Grape tail is a strange thing that happens to ferrets who are raw fed. After a few weeks, their tails may begin to smell like artificial grape. It's nothing to be alarmed about, but it is exciting when you get to smell it for the first time. After a while, the smell goes away and sometimes comes back. It's wonderful. Their raw food is safe to leave out.
Here are the general guidelines of the best time to remove or replace food. ----------------------------- Soups - 6-8 hours Grinds - 8-12 hours Chunks - 10-24 hours depending on the size (larger chunks last longer) Bone-in meats - 12-24 hours, again depending on the size Whole prey - up to 48 hours----------------------------- One of the first concerns you, your family or your vet may have when speaking about feeding raw would be Bacteria and Raw Food Handling Safety. I have to run off to do some things now, But I'll give you a small lesson on that subject later or possibly tomorrow. Big hugs to Misio and Kinga~ I can't wait to hear how their first try on the soup goes. Good luck!
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nannah
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Posts: 232
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Post by nannah on Jun 18, 2016 16:28:26 GMT -5
today I'm actually going to be out of the house all day, so I won't be able to make the soup till tomorrow! just wanted to let you know. I don't know if this is necessary or something?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 20:55:44 GMT -5
No problem~ Thank you for letting me know.
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nannah
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Posts: 232
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Post by nannah on Jun 19, 2016 19:32:29 GMT -5
oh gosh, well I made the soup today, and the babies wouldn't touch it. I tried the scruff 'n stuff method, and it just looked like they were suffering, omg. they're still not touching it (even with a tiny bit of ferretone - which I know I need to wean them off of) so I'm going to try thinning it out more . . .
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2016 23:11:45 GMT -5
Even though they are reluctant at the moment, great work! It's a whole new experience for Misio and Kinga. New taste, textures and smells. It's strange so it's completely natural for them to be reluctant at first. I personally don't like the scruff 'n stuff method. It may be a little stressful for them especially since its a new food. Feel free to use it if you like, but it may be best to keep it as a last resort. Keep trying to hand feed them with a spoon, or even your finger. Take it one step at a time~ Dabbing some on the gum line or on their nose/lips can help introduce the new taste. It may take a couple of days before they start to become more interested in the soup, but keep trying! It can be quite hard seeing ferrets behave like their suffering, but they will eventually start to eat it without any human help. My little girl Haru absolutely hated me at the start of her transition (rofl! it was torture for me). Getting through it will be all worth it~ The ferretone is nasty stuff. I used to use it when I started, after reading about the ingredients, I switched to using duck fat (I couldn't find salmon oil). Another helpful trick may be to warm up the plate before putting the soup on it. Running the plate through hot water, then putting the soup on it. You could also warm up the soup by putting it in a zip lock bag and place it in warm (not hot) water for a couple of minutes. Warm water is best because hot water could potentially cook the soup. Cooking degrades nutrients and we don't want that.
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nannah
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Posts: 232
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Post by nannah on Jun 19, 2016 23:40:06 GMT -5
you actually don't know how relieved I am to hear you say it's ok not to use the scruff n stuff method. I thought it was one of those "steps" that was necessary (especially since it was a stickie on the forum) . . . yeah, I really didn't enjoy that :S I'll definitely keep trying with the spoon and my fingers instead. aaand the fact that it might take a couple days makes me feel better. I go looking in other people's threads and it seems like they're taking to the soup after a little bit! or they're maybe not posting as much (I'll probably post a lot . . . ). and YES, it's sooo difficult to see them being like "wtf? I trusted you!!" and give you stink eyes. I'm only doing this because I Love You! but they don't know that yet. D: ugh, yeah, ferretone. I did read earlier that it contained carcinogens. but yikes, reading the link - it's bad. I did order some salmon oil, but they're not interested in that of course! picky bbs. do I need to train them to like that too? hmm, I'll try warming the plate up a little first! if that doesn't work at all, I'll warm up the plate and then the soup. something's gotta give sometime (and it won't be me).
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nannah
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Posts: 232
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Post by nannah on Jun 20, 2016 18:08:42 GMT -5
oh booyyy. feeding today, haha. Kinga did so well!! I did thin out the soup (long story short, yesterday I didn't have internet all day, and though I did have the soup recipe written down I forgot to include that water was needed). so I thinned out the soup a lot today and tried again. Kinga did amazing!! at least, compared to yesterday. she licked maybe 1/4 tsp off my fingers before she had enough. that might not be much by anyone's standards, but compared to what she'd done before, I'd say that's a big win! Misio on the other hand . . . yikes. this boy is gonna be trouble. :S I'd look at him and his lips would just curl! every time I'd try to bring my fingers close to his mouth he'd bat them away with his paws and squirm and squirm!! I managed to get some on his gums and he ran off to a puppy pad and wiped his face off. he's sooo gonna be trouble. do I need to past the ferret info when I'm just starting with the soup?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 0:52:25 GMT -5
Scruffing is best used when a ferret requires medicine, or medical purposes like vet visits or emergencies even. Other than that, Scruffing a ferret isn't necessary. It is always a last resort since we want to limit the scruffing as much as possible. There is another technique that I prefer. I don't think it has a name so I just call it the chicken wing hold. (because it kind of looks like a chicken wing) It sounds funny haha! Basically you grab the ferret and tuck their back end under your arm so that they are nice and secure, then using that same arm, use your hand to support underneath the ferret. Then you can easily use your other arm/hand to spoon or hand feed the ferret. I did a drawing on it a while ago, and wanted to share it but I've misplaced it somewhere on the forum. If I find it, I'll show you for sure. Any kind of hold, may still be hard, especially if you have a wriggly ferret. I find talking helps a lot (even when it doesn't appear to be helping). Lots of verbal encouragement is a really great thing and then when they try the soup, make a huge deal out of it. Don't worry too much about time. This thread is unique to you and your ferrets, so it can go at you and your ferrets own pace. Some ferrets take a liking to the soup quite fast, and some others may take a little longer. Feel free to post as much as you would like or when ever you would like to your transition thread~ One of the best things about getting through the start of the transition phase, is when ferrets start to eat willingly. You can see the concentration when they eat, its so amazing and ferrets even pick their own likes and dislikes with certain proteins or foods. My ferrets reacted the same way when I tried Duck fat instead of Ferretone. After a while, they now love it. I didn't do any transitions with the ferretone to duck fat, but I hear some people get little ferretone and a little salmon oil mixed together then eventually decreased the ferretone over a few tries. Maybe that may work for you. I'm sure that as long as you keep trying the oil, they'll get used to it. At this stage, it's totally normal for their reactions towards these strange new tastes. Congrats on the progress! Hearing that Kinga tried some of the soup makes me incredibly happy. (dance) Even the littlest of progress is still progress, so for Kinga, this is a fantastic start (especially since she tried some willingly)! Hehe Misio. My little girl Haru did the pawing thing as well. They really behave like children when they don't want something don't they? Even if he wiped it off, he still got a taste so thats a big plus! Yes, post the ferret info when ever you like.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2016 1:36:02 GMT -5
Here was the promised lesson on Bacteria.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2016 1:19:40 GMT -5
Hi! I hope all is well with Misio and Kinga today~ I just want to let you know that I may be inactive for a few days due to computer issues. It's getting sent into the repair shop tomorrow so hopefully it can be fixed up fast. I will do my best to check up every day through my phone!
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