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Post by Klarissa on Mar 7, 2016 21:26:49 GMT -5
I love HFF for so many reasons, but the shared appreciation & understanding of raw tops the list. I've been in a massive battle with my vet, for A YEAR, because one of my family dogs has the worst breath. Horrendous. Difficult to be in the same room as him! I (in my unprofessional opinion) think that is his stomach - its is reminiscent of the breath of someone with severe acid reflux, but magnified 100x. They said it HAD to be his teeth. After we requested battery of tests & fecal samples, and found nothing of significance I convinced my parents to make the switch to raw - and there was a small decrease in his stench - it was now possible to share the same room with Angus without wretching. I told the vet I think its a stomach bacteria, he prescribed probiotics, mid week he stole a cookie (milkbone) and his stomach flared up & he went back to being so stinky it was gag - inducing. Went back to vet, now it's his teeth BECAUSE OF THE RAW. *Rolls eyes*. Fine! So we spent the $1000, got his teeth cleaned. Surprise, surprise, two weeks later, no change in smell. Take him back in "oh yeah, there was a tooth that we suspected was infected, but we didn't do xrays, so we didn't pull it". That's after we said "do whatever needs to be done, cost is not an issue. Please xray & pull as necessary". They think his tooth is infected from eating raw & gave us a bag of Science Diet. So, back in he goes, under anesthesia just 2 weeks after the first time. They pull the tooth, and provide no antibiotics. Parents kept him on raw. Surprise! Week later, and no changes at all. They said the only stomach bacteria it could be is H.bacter (even though he shows no signs), and we would have to do a $600 stomach biopsy. Tomorrow I'm going back in, again. I'm putting my foot down, and telling them that if they can't give me a diagnosis that doesn't have to do with the raw food, then I will take my FOUR dogs, FIVE ferrets, and recommend my raw feeding clients to a new vet. I spoke with a retired vet, who thinks maybe the infection in his tooth/gums got above his soft pallet. Either way, it looks like he may have to go under anesthesia AGAIN, a third time in a month. Not. Impressed. My big, sweet, albeit very stinky boy <3 He is the biggest, loving goofball, and it breaks our hearts that he smells so bad its difficult to be around him. (Once I hugged him & he licked my sweater. My hubby could smell it on me when we went to Walmart later).
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Post by Corvidophile on Mar 7, 2016 23:42:39 GMT -5
Odd that they didn't suggest medication for acid reflux as a trial..? It isn't a spacey thought, other animals can and do have GERD and similar disorders. There may be scarred flesh in the back of his throat that plaque is sticking to (and of course, no surprise here, but carbs would build a lot more plaque than raw)
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Post by Klarissa on Mar 8, 2016 8:22:53 GMT -5
I had my parents do a month trial of acid reflux meds when I convinced them to make the switch to raw. I thought it was GERD too, since he has had a number of times where he got projectile vomited from switching kibbles (he has a sensitive stomach in that regard). But it didn't make an ounce of difference.
Oddly enough the dog is a counter surfing, carb fiend - bread, cookies, crackers, potatoes... If he has even a little carbs he smells to high h*ll. Which makes me thinks it is a bacteria since they would thrive on high sugar, high starch foods.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2016 11:50:04 GMT -5
I'm having a similiar problem and am switching vets. They want to prescribe prescription diets for every little ailment, they don't answer my questions, I feel like I'm being shoved out the door most of the time and it bugs the h#/! out of me that they lecture me about raw but they don't give lectures to clients about feeding alpo, pedigree, etc. My animals teeth are healthy and white, their coats are soft and shiny, they have lots of energy... so what I'm doing must be working. My friend feeds her dog kibbles and bits and the vet never says anything about it, but I get a lecture on raw?!
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Post by gfountain on Mar 8, 2016 11:58:13 GMT -5
Have you had his kidney function checked? My dog's breath was rank like that and she was diagnosed with renal disease.
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jessmarie
Junior Member
Q: How do you drive a ferret crazy? A: Give him a round litter pan.
Posts: 144
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Post by jessmarie on Mar 8, 2016 14:50:17 GMT -5
Sorry but your vet sounds ridiculous. I would check into someone else in the future. A vet that doesn't listen to the pet owners conserns probably isn't doing his job very well. Hope everything works out with your dog he's adorable!
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Post by bitbyter on Mar 8, 2016 15:18:46 GMT -5
So often when a vet disapproves of raw it blinds them to all other diagnosis.
Any indications of liver problems? Apparently liver disease can cause bad breathe and vomiting in dogs. I imagine a simple blood test should indicate if there are liver issues.
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Post by Klarissa on Mar 8, 2016 17:50:30 GMT -5
He had problems with his weight & ears previously, but the raw diet remedied that. While trying to solve that part of the mystery he had kidney, liver, thyroid, and blood tests done. Normal across the board.
They flushed it out today, and we have to go back again in a week - such a pain, but no charge. It could still an infection under the soft pallet, and he could be swallowing pus while he eats. If we go the gut bacteria route, and I don't know if they will budge from their "it can only be H.bacter" and biopsy only. I know antibiotic resistance is an extremely big deal, but I wish they'd just the treatment for H.bacter. Being put under so often cannot be good.
It was all good... Until my dad mentioned the raw (I wasn't going to say anything about it yet) and the vets got all "whoa, well.. I uh, need to go consult in the back". They did waive all the fees for the tooth extraction & xrays the second trip, which was extremely honest & kind thing to do.
But, to be honest its a super fancy, high-tech vet clinic. Its why I chose it, great vet team, exotics, boarding, hydrotherapy pool, certs out the wazoo. And up until, and even aside from this problem with Angus my regular vet is great. He is even in favor of raw for the ferrets... Just not for dogs which makes no sense.
So, I'm looking into new vets but, its not easy.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2016 23:14:12 GMT -5
I would have got a new vet as soon as they offered me science diet. Both my dogs breath smell bad, though, one worse than the other. Its never bothered me unless they try to lick my mouth or nose. They lick their butts and eat off the floor. But ive never heard of a dogs breath being that bad.
Sounds like that vet was incompetent or was taking on more animals than he could handle and wanted quick fixes. I would never feed any kibble, but especially not from a company that uses grains. Science diet has grain free versions, but why have graim versions when they cant digest it? Stuff like that is pretty basic, which makes it annoying that a veterinarian doesnt grasp it.
It could definitely be bacteria or some type of fungus in the stomach, I say this from personal experience with my own stomach. I used to have a yeast infection in my stomach, from a very high carb diet and these antibiotics I was on for a while. It was so bad that if I had a high sugar drink, I got drunk. My stomach was actually turning sugar and the yeast into alcohol. So a few glasses of orange juice would have me drunk, which honestly was the most amazing physical conundrum ive ever experienced (its called autobrewery syndrome or something like that). Anyway, it made my breath umhumanly bad. Not bad breath, but like bad dog breath. It was gross. So it definitely sounds like all the carbs could have left their mark on his stomach with bad breath, that would be my guess.
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Post by Klarissa on Mar 12, 2016 11:03:46 GMT -5
I would have got a new vet as soon as they offered me science diet Not really feasible - Science Diet & parent company sponsor vets diet & nutrition "education" (more like brainwashing with misinformation). Most, if not all vets are going to be Science Diet advocates - as long as they can work with me, and not rely on raw feeding as the backbone for every diagnosis. I've never personally met a vet that's a good diagnostician though - they think too narrowly, and don't seem to be able to pull broad ideas & information together. Example, the smell is coming from his mouth, therefore the origin must be his mouth. My gut & completely unprofessional opinion tell me its his stomach & bacteria overload. There is no way his stink flares when he eats any carb is a coincidence. I don't believe in coincidences.
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Post by bitbyter on Mar 12, 2016 11:07:12 GMT -5
If it flares when he eats carbs I would agree that it is probably yeast related. Systemic yeast infections are rare but they can and do happen. What does his breath smell like?
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Post by Klarissa on Mar 12, 2016 11:46:50 GMT -5
If it flares when he eats carbs I would agree that it is probably yeast related. Systemic yeast infections are rare but they can and do happen. What does his breath smell like? Death, lol. A systemic, or at the very least locally invasive yeast infection would make sense - he had a yeast infection in his ears that was difficult to combat. His one tooth was severely infected (courtesy of the stick stuck in it - never whimpered, stopped eating or chewing to let us know, lol). So, his poor immune system could have been overwhelmed letting yeast flourish.
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Post by Klarissa on Mar 12, 2016 17:18:05 GMT -5
Haha, death doesn't really help. I wasn't with him to stick my nose in his face.
It smells like stomach acid & bile - like the breath smell when a person hasn't eaten in awhile, or someone who has chronic acid reflux.
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Post by Corvidophile on Mar 13, 2016 14:56:16 GMT -5
Maybe also look at the tonsils, because people's infected tonsils will cause that kind of scent, too.
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Post by Klarissa on Mar 15, 2016 23:02:54 GMT -5
I'm studying the immune system now. I don't know why tonsils didn't occur to me, lol
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