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Post by Corvidophile on Mar 2, 2016 12:59:13 GMT -5
Mmhm, scruffing can work occasionally to stop biting in very young or very subordinate ferrets, but it fosters a negative relationship- the ferrets that cow to a scruff are ones that are off put or even afraid of you. It works with babies just because they're basically used to being taught new boundaries every hour of every day and willing to accept this as another new form of discipline. Older ones tend to be offended and scruffing will make it worse because:
1. You're not "playing fair" by disabling them in the middle of a game (remember, unless they latch and lunge, they think they're just playing and not doing anything wrong) and thusly will bite harder and faster when you let go of them to "get you back," or
2. they were biting to tell you to go away because they're either scared or unusually aggressive (illness or abuse can bring this out)
This is why ferrets that listened to scruffing when you first bring them home will appear to grow out of it, they're willing to succumb to it when they're unsure of themselves because whatever the giant strange human who owns this territory wants, the giant strange human gets, and when they get more used to you they won't take it anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 13:30:47 GMT -5
Actually that isn't true my little girl from the pet store NEVER bites after the first few times when I first got her and I used scruffing and she is the sweetest girl ever. My other little girl nips during play and she is from a private breeder and I know she doesn't do it to be mean or out of fear she just gets really excited. I think telling people scruffing out of punishment is the wrong way to go is misleading I think it should be more about finding what works best for you and your ferret together not what others think you should do. It doesn't hurt them nor does it make it harder to scruff for medical reason etc. And neither of my girls bite me or get upset when they are put down and they engage with me in play as well so it doesn't have any affect on our relationship as well. Just my opinion!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 13:51:22 GMT -5
Actually that isn't true my little girl from the pet store NEVER bites after the first few times when I first got her and I used scruffing and she is the sweetest girl ever. My other little girl nips during play and she is from a private breeder and I know she doesn't do it to be mean or out of fear she just gets really excited. I think telling people scruffing out of punishment is the wrong way to go is misleading I think it should be more about finding what works best for you and your ferret together not what others think you should do. It doesn't hurt them nor does it make it harder to scruff for medical reason etc. And neither of my girls bite me or get upset when they are put down and they engage with me in play as well so it doesn't have any affect on our relationship as well. Just my opinion! The great thing about HFF is that many of us have varying opinions. We also have a large bank, so to speak, of very experienced ferrents that we can learn from. My short 4 years experience with 8 ferrets differs greatly from lets say unclejoe who has , I dunno, like over 20 and has had ferrets since before dirt was invented. To scruff or not to scruff on this board seems to be of varying opinions. I personally only scruff for medical, others do for nipping. It should be noted too that not everyone knows how to properly scruff and doing it wrong can most definitely hurt them. The one thing that I say is definitely wrong is nose thumping no one will ever convince me other wise. I cannot tell you how many times I've interrupted sales clerks when I over hear them tell a customer, "just bump his nose and he will stop."
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 13:56:15 GMT -5
I 100% agree with that bumping their nose is the absolute worse thing you can do and can quickly destroy a bond between them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 14:02:16 GMT -5
I 100% agree with that bumping their nose is the absolute worse thing you can do and can quickly destroy a bond between them. Every time I hear a clerk suggest that I want to say, "Let me punch you in the freeking nose and see how you like it!" but then my better judgement takes over and I just say, "excuse me but please never do that, just use a 2-3 minute time out, it is more effective, more loving and wont injure your ferret." There is one clerk up there now that if he see's me when he is answering ferret questions for people he will say, "Its crowded here lets move over hear and I'll be glad to answer any questions." ^.^ I'm surprised I haven't been banned yet lol
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 14:08:27 GMT -5
I know its really upsetting when you see how people at pet stores handle some of the small animals! The ferrets are so sad all they do is try and jump up and play with you but are stuck in a tiny cage it makes me want to take them all home!
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Post by Heather on Mar 2, 2016 15:56:11 GMT -5
I've been doing rehab for years. Over 50 hard core biters have lived here (older than dirt thanks ) I know the worst thing you can do for a breeder's ferret is try to scruff and dominate. You will get a retaliatory bite. You might get away with scruffing a teddy bear Marshals but the reason why my whole world revolved around rehabing RC and PV and breeder ferrets was because of people's insistence that scruffing was a method to be used. A dominant ferret will retaliate. What are you going to do...up the ante? To a ferret being scruffed is to be dominated. Think about it. ciao
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Post by unclejoe on Mar 2, 2016 17:03:00 GMT -5
Dar24 and I have had 25 ferrets total. I've only scruffed a few for disciplinary/training purposes, otherwise it's mostly been to give unpleasant meds. I've had 2 bad biters, Eddie and Rosa. I don't like flicking noses like some on other sites suggest, because I know what swatting a dog on the nose does. Eddie would attack my legs from ambush, and latch on to the soft popliteal space in back. $hi* that hurt. Rosa would lick lick chomp and latch on to my arm. I tried scruffing and dragging both of them with mixed results, UNTIL I used my own teeth, lol. Eddie never bit me again after the first time, and it took Rosa a couple mouthfuls of fur to get it. I'm thinking about it, but I can't recall any others that needed that kind of discipline. Usually a loud NO! or 3 did the job. Potty training is a completely different subject. Even once you get them to recognize a litter box as such, they never seem to be 100%.
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jessmarie
Junior Member
Q: How do you drive a ferret crazy? A: Give him a round litter pan.
Posts: 144
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Post by jessmarie on Mar 2, 2016 17:26:04 GMT -5
I got my kits from a petstore about two months ago and when I first got Cash he was pretty nippy (not to the point where it really hurt or broke skin) and I just kept handling him and petting him. Now he doesn't bite me at all and when we wrestle he just puts my finger in his mouth and barely bites down. I asked the Scruff question to when I first got them and you should listen to everyones advice about only scruffing for meds and the vet.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 19:43:46 GMT -5
I've been trying something I usually reserve for puppies with Sashi-- maybe it'll help you. When Sashi bites a little too hard or holds on too firmly, I hold my hand still for a second (a "don't-you-dare"), if she doesn't stop I grab her ("I'm-warning-you"), then if she still doesn't stop, I make her keep my finger firmly in her mouth until she calms down. She doesn't like not being able to spit my finger out when she wants to go back to biting. When she's done being nippy, I hold her for a few seconds to tell her she needs to calm down a little, then I let her go back to playing. Very similar to what I do with nippy puppies.
When she actually hurts me (leaves an indent or more), she first gets pushed away and ignored, or I walk away from her if someone else is there to watch her. If she does it again, she gets time out.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 20:33:28 GMT -5
To me a baby biting is just normal---it is how they play. It just does not enter my mind to punish them or restrain them for that behavior. If things get too rough for me, I just get out of the way or redirect. You can redirect with a a moving toy, plastic bags, blankets etc...
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Post by Heather on Mar 2, 2016 21:17:22 GMT -5
I just won't abuse a baby and I certainly won't scruff, drag or otherwise rough up a ferret to make a "fear" point. I don't want them to be afraid of me. If you treat a poley like this, you will have the meanest biter you've ever encountered and they will not forgive and forget. Maybe, you can get away with treating farm ferrets in this manner, but I know this doesn't hold true. The hard core biters I had to rehab were all fear biters, they were all afraid of hands of their handlers. I came out of the handlers that used to use oppression and dominance to gain the behaviour that was desired. It doesn't work. It breaks down the first time you let them get away with an inappropriate behaviour or you don't have hands on. That's why you find ferrets who live in a household and only their handler can work with them and every time they get a chance they will test those boundaries. You will do and follow what path you set out for yourself but if you wouldn't do this to a small child, why would you do this to an animal. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2016 10:25:03 GMT -5
What about scruffing to help calm them down a bit?
Loki is my wild child. She can get really nippy when she is over stimulated. I have been gently scruffing her but supporting her to help her calm down a little. Once she calms down I slowly let her go, giver her a few soft pets and chin scratches then let her on her way again. Then she goes back to playing but isn't so out of control. Her nipping has also drastically decreased.
Woozle rarely gets so hyped up but she she does I have tried the same thing and it has helped her as well.
Just wanna make sure i"m not doing more harm than good.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2016 11:23:12 GMT -5
I'm not a fan of scruffing. I don't do it well and it makes me uncomfortable. Vets scruff and I don't want mine to confuse me with a vet visit. Females in particular really get upset about being scruffed especially if they are an Alpha.
Other ferrets will walk away when someone plays too rough. That's what I do. I walk away for two minutes and then come back and play so they know that they are forgiven and playtime will resume.
Try finding other ways to play without using your hands. Blanket rides are great and so are cat teaser toys. Once Loki understands that play will continue then she will calm down. She just needs to learn her social skills with humans are different then her social skills with ferrets who have rougher skin.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 3, 2016 11:34:10 GMT -5
My whole attitude on scruffing is that A) as a rule mom DOESN'T scruff as punishment(very few do), it is simply to move them around. Siblings scruff as a form of dominance, whether play or otherwise. Taking those two things into account I refuse to dominate my ferrets. I DO scruff for meds, exams, etc and do not want them thinking for a moment they are being punished with those things.
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