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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 10:07:36 GMT -5
I'm so jealous! I'd love to go to a ferret show. I think there are even some near Virginia. A ferret playground and group walk would be so fun! Although, my dudes are being slow about accepting the harness lol Baby steps
I was very wrong about them eating more! Kaylas ferrets are visiting today and they gave away Aryas stashes. I thought I knew all of them but apparently not lol There was a good 3oz in there of what I've given them the last 2 days.
Kaylas Chaos and Sheldon had their checkup and distemper shots today. She dropped them off with me after so they could be supervised while she is at work. Sheldon vomited immediately when he got his benadryl shot. The vet said it wasn't a reaction, he was just terribly scared. He made Kayla cuddle with him after that haha then flat ferreted acting like he was too pained to move....until he saw sister with some food. Now they're all dookin about like mad woozles!
Kaylas new vet, Dr. Mark Finkler invited her to a 3yr clinical trial for a vaccine to prevent adrenal gland disease in Marshals ferrets. He said it wasn't USDA approved for ferrets yet but that's the point of the study. He also said it had been successfully used as birth control for wildlife populations of deer and such and was in a previous study for ferrets who already had adrenal. It's supposed to surpress the GnRH hormone production. There is no compensation for complications caused by their study though.
What do you guys think? They gave her a pamphlet about it with the Who's & What's.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 12:04:58 GMT -5
I'd still like your opinions on last week's post, please.
This week's menu plan: Monday am: crushed cornish hen drummettes Monday pm: 3oz duck chunks
Tuesday am: crushed duck wing Tuesday pm: 3oz beef tongue
Wednesday am: frog legs Wednesday pm: 3oz lamb heart
Thursday am: duck spine Thursday pm: 3oz pork chunks
Friday am: 3oz salmon Friday pm: ½ chicken heart + ¼ lamb liver + 1/4 slivers of lamb kidney
Saturday am: pork chunks Saturday pm: beef chunks with duck egg
Sunday am: smashed cornish wings Sunday pm: ½ chicken liver + ½ lamb pancreas slivers
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Post by maja01 on Apr 12, 2016 4:19:59 GMT -5
Hey, sorry, I have been very busy last few days. You are probably talking about gnrh vaccine. It is pretty much used in wildlife in US (over here is not) and it is used for "chemical" castration of pigs all over the world. We have been discussing this option with a chief of our Exotic clinc, but I have concerns. First problem I have - we have different vaccines than you guys have in US and the one we can get in Europe it was allready tested in ferrets. (i am looking for an article, but as far as i remember it was one awfull clinical trial with deaths and so) Second - I, myself am very reluctant to use a vaccine and produce antibodies against something that is in the body (like own hormones) ... I feel safer with a short lasting injectionable stuff or implants which you can remove if it is neccessery ... On the other hand ... studies with US vaccine looks pretty good for adrenal g.d. treatment/adrenal g.d. prevention. They are quite similar to the result you can get with other gnrh analoges (deslorelin). I enclose two links: www.2ndchance.info/ferretadrenal-Miller2013.pdf, www.ferretcongress.org/sym2011/phxpdf/Ferret%20GnRH%20vaccination%20ACD%20prevention-Wagner.pdf
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Post by maja01 on Apr 12, 2016 4:21:20 GMT -5
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Post by maja01 on Apr 12, 2016 4:31:32 GMT -5
The menue looks really good. You did great job! You have a great variety of different proteins!!! The only thing - second part of the week is a bit low on bones (now we have 5 meals of bones in meat - we would need 7-9). I would trade that salmon for something with bones in it and on thursday I would give something with bones instead of beef chunks or give beef chunks + that egg and give b.i.m. instead of pork chunks.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 13:42:43 GMT -5
Oops,I'll fix that.
This last week the woozles have consistently had very firm black poo. I haven't been giving any bone meal since they began eating more actual bones and it's not just the organ days either. I feel they may not have had much skin/day lately so I'll give them turkey today
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Post by maja01 on Apr 15, 2016 10:14:50 GMT -5
Which protein did they get on days the poo was darker? After red meat the poo can be a bit darker - if you can, please post a picture. Tough, if a poo is firm, it is usualy no problem.
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Post by maja01 on Apr 16, 2016 4:01:41 GMT -5
Quizz time 1. In an emergency (you run out of bone), what are 2 acceptable bone substitutes and how much should your ferrets get? (be speficic) 2. What percent of the diet should be organ? 3. Give 2 examples each of muscle meat, edible bones, and organs. 4. What is a Normal Fasting Blood Glucose level? 5. How long does each type of meat generally stay good: raw soup, ground meat, med-large chunks, bone-in meats, whole prey?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2016 15:53:42 GMT -5
The poos seem normal now. I'm at Kaylas so the 5 ferrets are running about. Someone had thrown up last night but they were all super active so we think maybe someone found n ate a rotten stash. Everyone still seems fine today. They had hen, heart, and beef on the few days their poops were black and firm. Working on writing out the quiz responses today. There are a couple questions that I hadn't really thought about and don't know but that just means I know what I need to be brushing up on. Kayla and I have been working on a new cage for my fuzz butts this weekend. We put a frame door on a big old entertainment center, put levels, and stapled rabbit wire along the back so it's very well ventilated. Peel n stick tiles for the bottoms so urine doesn't soak into the wood. We're going to make wood n rope bridges and a dig pit...ah to be a spoiled spoiled ferret hahaha I'll post pictures when it's done though I'm sure you guys will see it on the Facebook page too
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 12:13:42 GMT -5
1. Ground egg shell and bone meal powder are a good substitute for bone in meals. I'm not sure of exact amounts but I'd sprinkle it on 7-9 of their meals and adjust based on their poos.
2. 10% organ. 1/2 liver 1/2 other organ
3. Heart, gizzards, breast, and theigh are some examples of muscle meats. Ribs, spine, and wings are some bone in meals. Liver, kidney, and pancreas are organs.
4. I don't know anything about blood glucose levels.
5. Many factors affect how quickly food may go bad so you should use your own judgment but a good guideline is to be suspicious of soupies by 6 hrs, earlier if it's warm where the food is at. Grinds can last twice as long and large chunks can stay fine up to 24 hrs. Ferret's can handle more bacteria than we can and they love ferret jerky. Bone in meats are the same. Whole prey can stay up to 2 days.
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Post by maja01 on Apr 19, 2016 12:14:21 GMT -5
It does happen thay they vomit occasionaly. If it is just once, it is nothing to worry. As you said, it might be some rotten piece or some might just overeat and than go running and jumping around ... It could be the combo of beef + heart (both have more blood and mioglobine than chicken) if it is ok now, we will just go on. If it will repeat, we will do more investigation - ok?
I have seen pics of half made cage on FB, it looks really good! Cant wait to see it finished!
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Post by maja01 on Apr 19, 2016 13:49:40 GMT -5
That is correct. As far as it goes of bone meal powders - usually there is an amount written on the label. For ferrets is same per pond (or kg) as is it for cats. Usually is about 1/3-1/2 of the little spoon that is included per ferret. but yes, if the poops are too soft, you add more. If are too soft or runny, you give less. For egg shells (grounded) the dose is 1 tbsp of egg shell to 225g (8oz) of meat. This one was easy, wasn't it ) Great! You did learn a lot during this few weeks This one was a bit tricky and I belive you don't since your fuzzes are quite young and that way not "endangered" of getting an insulinoma. Insulinoma is the most common cancer in ferrets and is directly related with their diet. Starches and sugars in food (plant food, that we understand each other) rise blood glucose levels. Since this is not normal condition, the body react with execretion of insulin from pancreas (more exact from endocrine part of the pancreas - from cells called beta cells). Insulin lowers the blood glucose to normal levels. So far, so good ... But ... ferrets are strict carnivores and their noral diet does not contains starches or sugars. So when they eat "non appropriate food" their pancreas must work much harder than pancreas of ferrets that eat appropriate = meat based diet. And you know ... when things must work harder as they are supposed to do, they break. It is the same with body tissues. There might be injuries, there migth be inflamations or (as it happens in case of insulinoma) cells start to replicate in some weird way and become cancerous ... In ferrets who have insulinoma there are some islands of beta cells that are "broken" and produce too much insulin. Even if there is no need for it = even if the blood glucose is normal, not elevated. And hence too much insuline production, the blood glucose in insulinomic ferrets drops bellow the normal values, which is dangerous because there are some tissues in the body (brains for instance) that only gets energy from glucose molecules in blood. Since there is no/not enough glucose in blood, there is a cut in energy supply for brains -> neurological signs like tremor, seizures or even coma ... Ok this was an explanation why is ok to know the normal values and to explain one more reason why meat based diet is best for ferrets. Normal values are 90-125 mg/dL (anyting with values lower than 60 mg/dl is considered insulinoma, even without conformation with biopsy). Yes factors as quantity, chunk size and outside/room temperature (and even freshnes of meat) do play role. You did very well! Would you write down this week's menue for revision please. I am getting two old ferret ladies this thursday. I tried really hard, that someone form our association would take them, but one is in pretty bad condition, so I will try to do something ...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2016 10:25:59 GMT -5
So insulinoma is like diabetes? I really hope I don't have to deal with that but I do have Marshals ferrets so I'm screwed lol
It's late in the week so I'll write out next week's plan and submit both to you
And yay! Ferret math! I hope you can get the old ladies better
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Post by maja01 on Apr 22, 2016 6:37:17 GMT -5
It is more like the other way than diabetes. In diabetes ther is not enough production of insulin or the body does not respond to it -> that why the blood glucose is most of the time too high. Excpet in so called hypo crisis, when glucose levels drop below normal (this episodes are acctually like insulinomic attack - in sense of clinical signs and glucose values) - they happen when diabetic person gives himself too much insulin, or if he does not eat enough ... In insulinomic animals (or persons), body produces too much insulin, so glucose levels are all the time too low. Yes well ... i didn't really want another old/sick/traumatised ferret at the moment - wanted to take some brake from fostering (and I did "forward" one byting girl), but the older one of those two is just to srewed up for anyone else at the moment. I will try my best. They are really sweet - especially Lejla (sandy), the sick one. She has no problems at all being in the new environment - she wants to cuddle, goes out of cage and explores everything - she is quite active for the condition she is in. The other, younger one, Gucci (dark sable), is more reserved, will need some more time. Except adrenal (she has implant), she seems healthy, for now (both were on complete vet check on tuesday).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2016 13:48:17 GMT -5
Dawww Lookit those faces! I love how varied ferret personalities are <3
Since we're almost through this week, I have next week's written too
Monday am: 3oz cornish hen with bone meal powder Monday pm: 3oz duck chunks
Tuesday am: crushed hen wing Tuesday pm: 3oz beef
Wednesday am: crushed chicken wing Wednesday pm: 3oz lamb heart
Thursday am: crushed chicken ribs Thursday pm: 3oz pork chunks
Friday am: 3oz turkey chunks with bone meal powder Friday pm: pumkin, egg, salmon oil (found chewed up plastic pieces from a stray binky, blockage protocol successful)
Saturday am: meaty beef rib Saturday pm: ½ chicken heart + ¼ chicken liver + 1/4 slivers of lamb lung
Sunday am: smashed hen drummettes Sunday pm: ½ chicken liver + ½ lamb pancreas slivers
04/25
Monday am: crushed cornish hen wings Monday pm: 4oz goat chunks with bone meal powder
Tuesday am: ground turkey neck Tuesday pm: 3oz tongue
Wednesday am: 3oz pork Wednesday pm: chicken heart
Thursday am: duck chunks Thursday pm: chicken ribs
Friday am: chicken with bone meal powder Friday pm: ½ lamb heart + ¼ chicken liver + 1/4 slivers of lamb kidney
Saturday am: 3oz goat chunks with bone meal powder Saturday pm: 3oz beef chunks with quail egg
Sunday am: smashed cornish drummettes Sunday pm: ½ chicken liver + ½ lamb lung
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