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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 16:04:34 GMT -5
Hello there!
I have signed up for the mentoring program and as I wait, I have been told to post in here to monitor my progress every other day.
In case people do not know, I have two ferrets. Both jills. Both 7 months old. Their names are Ciri and Triss. I've had my fuzzies since October 15 and my life has changed for the better, I have never loved something so much.
I started the transition a week ago today with the soup. 8oz of chicken, the hearts, liver and egg shell with some water.
Ciri took to it intermediately while Triss needed coaxing. She picked it up really quickly however and began to eat it and get excited when I brought the dish out.
I weighed them last Tuesday and this is what they weighed:
Triss:750 grams Ciri: 680 grams
From reading peoples posts on here, I am assuming that my poor fuzzies are underweight so I want to change that! Before the transition, they were kibble fed and had cooked chicken with their diet as well as one raw egg a week.
Anyway, a week into the transition and I have noticed that my ferrets have lost weight, even though they are still eating.
Triss: 737 grams Ciri: 665 grams
Their stools are loose. Very loose. They don't even look like stools. Just dark blobs in the cage. Some are seedy and the others are just runny blobs. I have been monitoring their water intake too and I have noticed that they are not drinking as much as they used too. I was forever filling up the water bowl and bottles before and in the past week, I've hard touched them to refill, only to give them fresh everyday.
I am assuming this is due to the water in the soup.
Two days ago, I started added little slivers of chicken into the soups and I have seen Triss eat a sliver and Ciri however, when the soup has gone, the slivers are left at the bottom till last.
I went shopping today and bought some chicken drumsticks (legs) to have them in for when I move them up but as I got them out the bag, Ciri started dancing in circles and sniffing the packet. Out of curiosity, I opened the pack and held the drumstick to let her sniff and she immediately went at it. I've never seen her like that before! Triss however, just sniffed it and then ran away to play.
I removed the left overs from the cage from their lunch my fella had given them and proceeded to put the drumstick in the cage, just to see what would happen. Ciri at this point was distracted hiding her hedgehog toy so I tried coaxing Triss in the cage and showing her myself what it was. She was sniffing at it so she was interested. I pulled a bit of the skin up and let her sniff underneath and that was it, she bit the bone end and ran off up the corner with it. She shook it, and tried to bite the bone bit but I still think she's a little unsure of how to rip it up. Unless, im being naive!
I've left it in the cage for now, on it's own, as they sleep and later on i'm thinking of putting two cubes of soup in overnight, just in case. Would this be the safe bet do we think?
Any advice is appreciated. I'm new at this!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 17:55:38 GMT -5
Sounds like you're off to a fantastic start! It's great to hear that you also signed up for a mentor. I'm sure you will have one in no time at all~ Losing little weight during a transition can be fairly normal. They tend to lose fat and gain muscle. Weights also change during seasons, so you may notice little weight change when the seasons change. I wouldn't say that your ferrets are underweight. The current weights seem nice to me. My little girl is currently 740g. Drinking less water is also normal. They get a majority of their water content from their new raw diet and won't drink as much water compared to when they were on simply plain kibbles. The stools will firm up as they transition. If you see loose poop, increase egg shell powder. If its too seedy and dry, decrease the powder. During the transition process you will more than likely see a lot of funky poop. The funky poop is the detox phase which is when their bodies begin to eliminate all the toxins from kibble and start using the nutrients from raw. Feel free to post about poop if you like. Their raw food is also safe to leave out for a period of time. Here is the basic guidelines: Soups - 6-8 hours, Grinds - 8-12 hours, Chunks - 10-24 hours depending on the size (larger chunks last longer) Bone-in meats - 12-24 hours, again depending on the size, Whole prey - up to 48 hours. Good work so far!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 18:20:52 GMT -5
You are off to a very nice start like Machan said. Tris sounds eager already. You could slice some long slivers off the drumstick and try holding Tris while you offer the slivers. Sometimes running them under warm water helps also. A drumstick will be a tough for a new to bone ferret. Wingtips will be easier for them. A wing comes in 3 sections. Next shopping trip pick up some chicken wings. The triceps and biceps are a bit big. Cut off the section at the tendon and then cut the wingtip once lengthwise and twice width wise. This will help release the smell and make it easier for them to chew on. You can leave the other parts on a plate for them to gnaw on. Definitely try leaving some soupie for them overnight. If the plate is empty then offer more for the next meal. Between some wingtips and some soupie, they will have a great chance to try their new food. Triss and Ciri are both young and healthy so if they refuse to eat the soupie on their own then they will just be a bit hungrier for breakfast and you can sit with them and make sure they have a nice big breakfast. Nice Job and give them both a hug for being so good.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 8:07:01 GMT -5
Thank you both so much! The advice you have given me is definitely useful! I'll make sure to buy some wings on my way home today from work. Thought i'd report in. Week 2 - Day one - AM So come down this morning to see two hyper little fuzzies just getting out of bed and ready for a new day. However, when looking in their food bowl, I've noticed that they have ate all the soup but left the chicken bits and stashed the leg. They also did this last night, stashed the raw chicken but I have not seen them eating it yet. I'm a bit concerned that they are eating the soup around the chicken now. Maybe I'm making the slivers too big? Does anyone have a photo of the size a sliver should be? Me and my other half got their breakfast ready and popped it on the floor and they went straight for it, not a problem at all but they are still only stashing the chicken and not eating it. My other half has tried this morning the "scruff and stuff" technique, but to no joy. They will gladly take the chicken from me and tug on the meat and rag it effectively (mostly Ciri) but they then just pop it into a corner to be forgotten about and I have been removing it from their cage and throwing it away after its been in there for the time mentioned above. Stuck with my next move.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 8:28:39 GMT -5
They're doing well, really. They just have to get use to the new soupie and slivers. Slivers start out small. Think of the size of your fingernail crescent. That's tiny. We sort of sneak them in there.
Stashing is a great joy for Ferrets and they love jerkified meat. That chicken drumstick is good for 24 hours. Let them enjoy it for a day and then toss it.
When you think bones for a Ferret, think of small animal bones. They won't be able to handle a cow bone or a pork bone. If you can find those tiny pork buttons (which I can't) they may handle them eventually but for now think small animals. Quail, chicken wings, Cornish game hens, rabbit, guinea pig (if you can bear the idea of those darling little creatures) or mice.
Scruff and stuff only makes females mad. The idea is to make meals fun and pleasant. Scruffing is more for the vets and giving medicine. Sit with them on the floor, coax them and put them in your lap to hand feed from a small spoon. You'll get much better cooperation and they trust you so you are building a lovely bond with them.
When you have some time then please read over this thread. It has alot of information for beginning the switch and you want to know what you're feeding and why. It answers alot of questions and will also explain the process that you will go through and the science behind their diet.
:wave3:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 8:34:50 GMT -5
They're doing well, really. They just have to get use to the new soupie and slivers. Slivers start out small. Think of the size of your fingernail crescent. That's tiny. We sort of sneak them in there. Stashing is a great joy for Ferrets and they love jerkified meat. That chicken drumstick is good for 24 hours. Let them enjoy it for a day and then toss it. When you think bones for a Ferret, think of small animal bones. They won't be able to handle a cow bone or a pork bone. If you can find those tiny pork buttons (which I can't) they may handle them eventually but for now think small animals. Quail, chicken wings, Cornish game hens, rabbit, guinea pig (if you can bear the idea of those darling little creatures) or mice. Scruff and stuff only makes females mad. The idea is to make meals fun and pleasant. Scruffing is more for the vets and giving medicine. Sit with them on the floor, coax them and put them in your lap to hand feed from a small spoon. You'll get much better cooperation and they trust you so you are building a lovely bond with them. When you have some time then please read over this thread. It has alot of information for beginning the switch and you want to know what you're feeding and why. It answers alot of questions and will also explain the process that you will go through and the science behind their diet. :wave3: Ahh right ok. I didn't know that the technique makes them mad! I read the technique here in one of the threads. I'll stop doing that now then. I normally sit on the floor and coax them ( I even pretend to eat it ) I'm going to pick some wings up on the way home and do what you showed me in the picture above. I'll place on on those on their eating platform and try to cut up the chicken even smaller. I shall report back later!
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Post by linsul on Feb 10, 2016 8:37:14 GMT -5
I'd go with what Poncesmom said and try the wings, they're so much easier to eat than drumsticks. I'm sure they know it's food since you've done a great job at the raw intro, it just may be too advanced a piece for them to effectively nom just yet. Teaching them it's food is part of the transition, the fuzzies learning to navigate to different cuts and use their skills is the other part. Do you have a cleaver? At this stage any bone in meats you want them to try being chopped up would greatly help their chances of eating it.
Keep trying to hand feed slivers, it really does help to be persistent. They can do it, they just may not be inclined to practice and hand feeding speeds the process up even if it seems like a waste of time since they don't actually eat. It's not! All part of the process, as long as they have food to fall back on for nutrition then the the hand feeding times can be the learning ones. It's also a good bonding time!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 8:58:00 GMT -5
Until I get a picture of a wing, I'll show you a picture of the first time they had quail. Here is a whole quail: Here is after I chopped it up with a cleaver. I was careful to make sure that is was minced and there were no small pieces that were too large for them or so small they could get stuck in their teeth:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 9:12:22 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 9:18:19 GMT -5
They sound do be doing great~ They probably are not quite sure what to do with the other meats yet. You can try using them in small amounts and cut them up in sizes about the size of a nail crescent. If that fails, that's fine. Some ferrets take time to adjust to this new strange thing in their food bowls rofl. You can try hand feeding them the meat if you like. For sizes, have a look at this thread for a good idea: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/4341/standardized-sizing-etc-meatsStashing is quite normal. Strangely enough I noticed it happens a lot more during the start of a switch. I'm not fond of the scruff and stuff technique. I attempted to use it when I started but it made the whole experience more stressful for the ferret and made them so much more wriggly and frustrated. A better technique would be to put one arm like a chicken wing, plop a ferret's bottom under there and support them with the same arm while hand feeding with the other. @poncesmom you explained this to me once, Maybe you're better with words lol! Also I know, It looks funny. It's a rough draft but you get the idea, well at least I hope so~ Being verbal with encouragement seems to work wonders. I'll try and get my drawing example, of what I'm blabbering about lol. I still haven't finished it, but it will make my words more understandable . Ah and here's an example for bone in meats if you would like it for any reference.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 9:26:30 GMT -5
That's a great post and I love the pictures. What @machan is referring to is when I sit on the floor with them. I put one on my lap and gently place my left arm over them, just to let them know I am there. Then I use my other hand and offer some soupie from a spoon. I let them lick it off and if they try to jump down then I pick them up and talk sweetly to them and try again.
I'm in no rush so if they lick from the spoon then I sit there for a few more licks. If they don't then I dab a bit on their mouth and try again.
Once they are eating from the spoon, then I will lower the spoon to the plate and let them eat off the spoon on the plate. When I'm sure they are eating and this may take a few days or tries, then I leave the spoon on the plate and sit there while they eat off the plate.
It takes time and coaxing plus persistence and patience. Working with them is so important. Putting down a plate of something they don't recognize and then walking away will not work.
You're guys are doing well and it's perfectly normal what you're seeing now. Triss and Ciri are trying and will do just fine and so will you.
:wave3:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 5:23:41 GMT -5
Morning! I cannot tell you how helpful all of your posts have been for me! You guys are amazing! Thank you all so much! I love this forum! Thought i'd report in for last night. Week 2 - Day One - PMSo on the way home, after the advice I read on here, I bought a tray of chicken wings from my local store. Went home to see two lovely little faces peeking out from there favourite blanket. Ready to play! After a few hours of rough and tumble and hide and seek, they kept climbing to me as if to say "Dinner now mum, we're ready to eat" I cut the wing as the diagram showed in this thread first as I prepared some soupie for later. I thought, with the soup only lasting for 6 - 8 hours. I'd put that in close to 11 as I'm up at 7 for breakfast time. Knowing they had food on a plate, they were on my heels like normal all excited and jumped onto their food platform. Showing them the wing, they both licked at it straight away and Ciri picked part of it up and tried to run off with it :') Triss however, was still cautious. I knew they were hungry but neither of them were eating the chicken. Just storing it for later. So i decided to step in and rip and tear and create loose bits for them to pull and gnaw on. Ciri picked it up really quick and start to use her teeth to cut pieces off and she was eating it. I felt so proud! Triss was still unsure so I took her out and popped her on my lap and held her against my chest like I would for a snuggle and let her sniff the chicken. She grabbed it so I tugged on it to try and get the "ragging instinct" going and she did start to pull back which was great but she still wasn't eating it. So I have some taurine paste that they love so I popped some on a piece of chicken and offered it to Triss but made sure the paste was on the underside of the chicken so she wouldn't just lick it off. Success! She took the whole piece of chicken, chewed it and swallowed it. I did it again, and this time, she put it back to the back of her mouth and used her teeth to chew a piece of and eat it. I let her go with the rest and she just stored it but I was happy with the progress Later on that night, I placed the soupie in and both girls ran all excited to eat it. As it was a few hours later, I got some chicken, again from the wing, dipped it in the soupie and held Triss to my chest and tried the exercise again. Success, she ate it again! So I kissed her head, told her I was proud and left her be. Week 2 - Day 2 - AMSo this morning, I come downstairs to a clean bowl of soup! there were a few bits of chicken left that had been stashed in a corner but the rest had gone. The wing was still stashed also and doesn't look like it had been chewed at much. I left to go to work at 8am whilst my other half was getting their breakfast soup ready. I can update fully later. My question now is, am I ok giving them soup for breakfast then not feeding them till night time? Or would they need the soup three times a day as well as a wing? My thoughts for this week was going to be: AM - Soup PM - Wing (soup for through the night) In between, getting some breast chunks and doing some more coaxing. What do you suggest?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 7:49:14 GMT -5
Morning to you! It's nighttime where I am (hehe~)
Nothing beats having an eager ferret at your heel ready for some food. ;u; I've never seen any animal so excited for their dinner as ferrets have been for their fresh food in a really long time. Beat kibble for sure!
Triss and Siri are off to a great start. The fact that they're eager is a wonderful sign. (even if it ends up stashed later lol!) They're both such champs for giving the new food a try! Big hugs!!
Yes, its okay to give them soup for breakfast. I did that and it worked fine especially if I was busy with classes. Maybe leave a little bit extra in there for them until next meal time, that way if they feel little more hungry, they can eat their share and have some more to munch on until their next meal. Not every ferret owner feeds three times a day either since a lot of us work and go to classes, so feeding twice a day works out nicely.
It's fine to leave the soupie in for half of the day. The general time frames are usually used for freshness. It doesn't mean the the meat or meal has gone bad. In summer or hot weather its best to be changed often.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2016 18:28:20 GMT -5
Haha hi Machan! Pretty sure it's morning where you are now and evening here for us :') I have a friend In Australia and it was really hard to sync skyping times! haha.
I come with more news and another update!
Week Two - Day two - PM
So this evening we carried on with the same routine as last night. But we had a little adventure! Came home and they are let out of their cage so they can roam about, play fight and get into mischief. I went upstairs to get changed and of course they joined me. They went into my ensuite bathroom and decided to splash about in the shower. Triss loves a good snorkel and dip whilst Ciri just paddles! (dance)
Onto dinner time, they certainly worked up an appetite so out came a fresh raw wing and a bit of breast meat on a plate. Again, they were on my ankles and knew exactly where to go to get the food! Placed the plate down and... I didn't even have to encourage them! Triss took a piece straight away and began gnawing at it and eating it and so did Ciri! Before eventually beginning to stash again! haha.
I did the exericise where I held the both to my chest, muttering reassuring words, and hand fed them some bits of chicken with some taurine paste on too. They wolfed it down. Ciri however worked out that she could just lick the paste of the chicken...wasn't what I was hoping for but she's still eating it in her own time.
I have just popped in a bowl of soupie for overnight purposes but all in all, I am one very very proud ferret momma! Never hugged my babies so tight Triss did look at me as if too say "Jeez mom, i just ate, you crazy woman" haha
My next question is this...what next? Do i leave them on this diet of wing and soup and breast for another couple of weeks? Till they start to eat the bone? Or do I start to introduce some whole organs?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 10:08:17 GMT -5
They both did so well and so did you. Your hugs and reassurance make a big difference. You have water babies, I love water babies.
You could introduce a new protein by making a soupie of another protein like pork, pork liver and pork heart. Then leave the wingtips in their menu to get them use to the bone.
It's so exciting when they do well and you should be proud. (dance)
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