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Post by Celene on Feb 26, 2016 18:15:09 GMT -5
Sounds good! The goal now is to wean them 100% off soupies and just onto chunks. You can still keep just a little bit of turkey soupies handy to drizzle on top if he's being fussy. Then your menu should look something like this: Monday am: Turkey slivers + eggshell powder Monday pm: Heart Meal* Tuesday am: Rabbit slivers + eggshell powder Tuesday pm: Beef slivers Wednesday am: Rabbit slivers Wednesday pm: Heart/Liver (50%/50%)* Thursday am: Turkey slivers + eggshell powder Thursday pm: Beef slivers Friday am: Turkey slivers + eggshell powder Friday pm: Rabbit slivers + eggshell powder Saturday am: Liver/Kidney (50%/50%)* Saturday pm: Turkey slivers + eggshell powder Sunday am: Beef Slivers Sunday pm: Rabbit slivers + eggshell powder * Instead of feeding 1.5 meals of heart and 1.5 meals of liver/kidney, you can also feed a soupie made of 50% heart, 25% liver and 25% kidney. Today our mini-lesson will be about the nutritional content of different meats!Since different proteins have different levels of various vitamins and minerals, it is important to feed a variety. We generally recommend a minimum of 3-4 different proteins per week. Meats that are very similar (i.e. chicken vs cornish game hen) do not count as separate proteins as they have almost identical nutritional profiles. - Try to choose fattier cuts of meat. Ferrets get their energy from fats similar to how humans rely on carbs. So instead of getting turkey breast, opt for the thigh instead! Fattier cuts are usually cheaper too, so it's a win-win!
- Rabbits are relatively low in taurine. This is because taurine is created when muscles work very hard, and rabbits are kept in small pens and don't run around a lot (wild-caught rabbits are different). This is also why hard working muscles like heart and tongue are so high in taurine.
- We generally recommend at least one "red meat" per week. Red meats such as duck, beef, lamb, etc. are very high in iron (which is what gives it the red colour) and other vitamins/minerals. This isn't so much as a "hard" requirement, but a way to ensure a vider variety (as opposed to someone feeding chicken, turkey and quail as their three proteins, which are relatively similar).
Below I have made up a quick chart which illustrates the different vitamins in chicken, duck and beef (no cut in particular). You don't need to know any of the specifics, it's just a visual to show how some meats have higher/lower levels of different things!
You'll notice that these meats are all relatively low in Vitamin A. By comparison, 100g of raw chicken liver has 11077 IU (222% of a human's daily value) of Vitamin A, which is why it is very important for ferrets, but only in smaller amounts.
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Post by Celene on Mar 6, 2016 11:48:10 GMT -5
Hey! How is everything going?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2016 22:31:24 GMT -5
Hello Celene!
Thanks for all the info!
Rino seems to be doing well with the turkey and rabbit slivers and ground beef ... not so much with slivers, but I am having a hard time getting him to eat a meal of just organs so I've gone back to mixing the organ meal with a bit of rabbit slivers and a bit of soupie and that seems to be the only way he'll eat them for now, I will keep you posted on this, his meat meals are drier now, I still add a bit of the soupie mix but no added water and he eats it well... not much chewing though, I will make the organ soup this weekend and try it out.
Thanks!
-Mariana
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Post by Celene on Mar 10, 2016 23:05:29 GMT -5
I'm glad you checked in! Can you post a photo of how big his slivers are? If he's eating them but not chewing then you should increase the site a little so he can't just slurp them back
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 0:47:02 GMT -5
Hello Celene, I will take a picture tomorrow before feeding him Thanks!
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Post by Celene on Mar 17, 2016 23:21:29 GMT -5
Sounds good! Please also post your detailed menu for the week
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2016 23:23:20 GMT -5
Hello Celene, Here is what I gave him this week, it is not the same as what you suggested but it tricks him into eating different proteins: Monday am: Turkey slivers + Rabbit slivers + soupie +eggshell powder Monday pm: Turkey slivers + Rabbit slivers + soupie +eggshell powder Tuesday am: Turkey slivers + Rabbit slivers + soupie +beef /lamb ground Tuesday pm: Turkey slivers + Rabbit slivers + soupie +beef/lamb ground Wednesday am: Turkey slivers + Rabbit slivers + soupie +eggshell powder Wedsnesday snack: egg yolk Wednesday pm: Turkey slivers + Rabbit slivers + soupie + Heart slivers Thursday am: Turkey slivers + Rabbit slivers + soupie +eggshell powder Thursday pm: Turkey slivers + Rabbit slivers + soupie + kidney slivers Friday am: Turkey slivers + Rabbit slivers + soupie +heart slivers Friday pm: Turkey slivers + Rabbit slivers + soupie +eggshell powder Saturday am: Turkey slivers + Rabbit slivers + soupie +eggshell powder + beef/lamb ground Saturday pm: Turkey slivers + Rabbit slivers + soupie Sunday am: Turkey slivers + Rabbit slivers + soupie Sunday snack: egg yolk Sunday pm: Turkey slivers + Rabbit slivers + soupie +eggshell powder I have not given him liver because last time I tried, he ate everything but the liver . I know I need to decrease the soup ratio a bit more and try to get him to eat a "drier" meal, I will work on that this week. I wanted to ask for advise, I moved to a new apartment a few weeks ago, at my old place I used to have a roommate and Rino loved him but when I moved, my mom was here for 2 weeks so she made sure to keep Rino busy while I was at work and he seemed happy, now that she's gone, I am having a hard time keeping him happy He's got his own room; he is in his cage when I am not home, but when I come home, I let him out of the cage, play with him for about 30 minutes and let him roam in his room while I make dinner and eat. When I am done, I let him out of the room and he wonders around (I follow him and play with him), now, I have very little furniture so he really does not have many places to hide but I try to keep him busy with his tunnels, balls and other toys... he seems bored and frustrated also because I am not letting him pee or poop if it is not in a litter box... and he's tried now to do it inside a kitchen cabinet (that I was willing to let him use as a hiding spot) and a bathroom cabinet as well (he did once and tried once more). As soon as I see him backup, I grab him and take him back to his room and put him in a litter box, he takes a deep breath and seems displeased, does not use the box and tries to get out of the room again so I put him in his cage hoping he will use the box in there... instead he climbs onto his hammock and curls up as if he is being punished I feel awful but I cannot think of another way to train him to use the boxes... so that means that he doesn't get to roam freely in the house... I have to follow him around and make sure he doesn't go potty just anywhere, yesterday and today he seemed super bored and wouldn't even care to play with his toys I take him for walks around the block and bus rides to get him out of the house if it isn't too cold and he likes it but that doesn't get him tired as he tends to climb onto my arms way too often (lazy little bugger hehe) What can I do? Here is the slivers
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Post by Celene on Mar 21, 2016 15:24:55 GMT -5
Hey, I just wanted to you know that I had a very thorough response typed up yesterday and before I could post it, my computer crashed! I will try and retype it tonight, but in the meantime I just wanted to let you know I saw your update and I'm not ignoring you
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Post by Celene on Mar 22, 2016 11:04:02 GMT -5
Thanks for showing me the pictures of the slivers! What I want you to do now is start increasing the size of them twice a week. A couple notes on your menu: - Rino NEEDS to be getting liver in his diet. Without it he can become deficient in Vitamin A and other nutrients which can cause health problems. I know there is some in the soupie, but if it's only a small portion of each meal than it's not enough. - I am concerned that Rino isn't getting enough heart. I know two meals are "Turkey slivers + Rabbit slivers + soupie + Heart slivers", however I'm not sure how much of that meal is heart. If you are feeding with equal ratios of turkey and rabbit slivers then he is only getting .6 of a meal of heart per week instead of the 1.5 meals that he needs. - Generally, we don't recommend mixing proteins within meals (i.e. feeding turkey AND rabbit at the same time). The reason for this is that it can mask food sensitivities, and also because if an issue DOES occur, it would be difficult to tell which protein had caused it. For this week I would like you to try feeding the menu I posted on February 26. If Rino won't eat the liver, then try drizzling it with a little salmon oil, soup, egg, or other treat. I got my ferrets to eat liver by bribing them with a little egg If he still won't eat it, mush it up (liver is very soft) with a bit of egg or soupie so he can't pick around it. In regards to your other concerns about him being bored and frustrated and not using the litterbox, ferrets DO get bored really easily and can be quite pouty sometimes when they don't get their own way. How many litter boxes do you have around the rest of your place (outside his room)? Ferrets have short digestive tracts and can't "hold it" long enough to run somewhere else so I suggest a MINIMUM of one litter box per room/area. You can place more litter boxes to start and remove a couple as he gets better at using them. I would also suggest you give him a healthy treat (like a lick of salmon oil) every time he uses his box so he has incentive to do so. When I was litter training my guys they even started "faking" using their boxes just to get treats! In regards to him being bored, ferrets DO get bored easily. They need a variety of different toys and activities. Good playthings include tunnels, dig boxes (filled with brown rice or dried beans), empty boxes, bags, and stuffies if he doesn't chew them. Usually what I will do is put most of the toys in the closet and rotate them. After a ferret hasn't seen a toy for a couple months and you bring it back out, it's a brand new toy again! There are also many threads on our enrichment board about keeping ferrets occupied, especially when you have a busy life, and litter training. You can also try posting to get more ideas from other members. Good luck!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2016 21:51:11 GMT -5
Thanks Celene, We are doing better in regards to play time, I do have paper bags, boxes with tissue paper inside, toys, tunnels and a dig box, I had to take them to the living room to get him interested in them again hahaha what a brat! as for the litter training, I will get him more boxes, I have 2 in his room and he will only use them when I place him in there... otherwise, he liked the corner behind the door so I use a puppy pad for that, the corners in the living room where we peed before, now I have puppy pads and he won't even try to pee there again I did increase the size of the slivers last time I prepped and he is eating them well, except for beef, for that I need to mix in some soup to get him to eat I only prep his meat once a week so I will increase it again this weekend. Also, I cut out the soupie from his meals to get him to eat the slivers on their own and he eats them ok, some times I have to beg a bit and feed him by hand (headwall) in the morning when I have to go to work, I just add plain water to the slivers and that does the trick hehe. I can see how taking the soupie away is lowering his organ intake, I got liver today and will make him eat it this friday after work since I will have time for begging and hand feeding hehehe. I will stick to the menu I promise I has been hard because I resigned my old job and got a new one so getting used to commuting and new responsibilites is throwing me off, also need to feel a bit more financially stable but as soon as that happens I will get him some new toys -Mariana
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Post by Celene on Apr 1, 2016 10:31:25 GMT -5
I'm so glad he's eating the slivers without the soupie! One thing about switching ferrets is that I find it has a lot to do with your attitude and body language. If you're trying to beg a ferret to eat and coddling them, they know they have the upper hand and will do their best to manipulate you! If you just put the food in their cage and expect them to eat it, they'll realize they don't have much choice except to eat it or be hungry. When I was new and switching my girls I definitely learned that part the hard way! Ferrets are very clever and master manipulators. They would actually throw huge tantrums (including flipping their dish, pouting, running back and forth between me and the food, etc.) if their meals didn't have salmon oil or egg on them. Once I made the decision not to give in, they learned quick! Now they know that when I put the food in, that's it. They eat it. It saves a lot of time! I hope your new job is going well
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Post by Celene on Apr 4, 2016 15:02:16 GMT -5
Hey! Just wondering how everything is going, and whether you were able to get Rino to eat his liver? Speaking of which, it's time for a pop quiz... On the topic of liver! :evil4: 1. How much liver should one ferret get in one week? 2. If a ferret eats 28 ounces of food in one week, how much liver does he get? 3. What vitamin is found in Liver? 4. Is the main vitamin found in liver fat soluble or water soluble? 5. Can a ferret have too much liver?
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Post by Celene on Apr 11, 2016 10:50:21 GMT -5
@mariana, are you still around?
I know you are busy with your new job, but I just need to know whether you are still interested in continuing this switch.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2016 14:29:20 GMT -5
Yes I am. sorry. I've been reading. In fact Im making The liver soupie... came to get the ratios you gave me.
I'm so sorry for taking long.
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Post by Celene on Apr 17, 2016 21:47:41 GMT -5
Hi Mariana, Now that you've had a chance to settle into your new home and job, it's time to get Rino's raw transition back on track. It is unhealthy for a ferret to be on an unbalanced diet for very long, which is why we require frequent posts from mentees during the diet switch. In order to go forward with this switch, here is what I need from you: - Updates/posts from you no less than 3 days per week. (More is okay of course)
- A detailed menu of Rino's current diet a minimum of one time per week.
- Photos of current sliver sizes at least once per week.
- I will be assigning one reading per week (it may be a link or posted directly to the thread). Nothing strenuous or time consuming, but you will be getting quizzes.
For now if you could post your menu, a photo of current sliver sizes and your answers to the quiz I posted on April 4th that would be great!
I know it might seem like a little bit of work, but it is absolutely crucial to Rino's health and wellbeing. By following this plan we will have him switched to a full raw diet in no time!
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