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Post by Heather on Oct 18, 2016 13:15:09 GMT -5
I'm going to back the adrenal suggestion. Some of the other issues such as poor healing and lethargy, muscle wasting all point to adrenal. I would strongly suggest that before you implant you do a BG test just to make sure you don't get an insulinoma surprise. Even if insulinoma is an issue, treating with the DES is imperative as it will help in the long run to help stabilise the BG and make the ferret more responsive to it's meds. Your vet must listen to your requests. Fluffing it off on allergies is a copout. Many vets are now finding that the "allergy" diagnosis is often based on an underlying issue that can be treated. Once these issues are treated then the "allergy" mysteriously disappears. Allergy is too easy....it means that no one has to look for the base problem ciao
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 16:30:38 GMT -5
Have an appointment tomorrow at 5:20 with a local animal hospital that has Des on hand. No idea what it'll cost, but they said the surgery days are Wed and Thurs, so they should be able to run blood work and implant it right away. No idea if it's a good vet, either... But the recommended vets on here can't get anything for close to 2 weeks... I'll just have to watch her really close after the surgery and make an appointment with the vet from Duluth, MN (highly recommended on here) for soon after.
Is there a good duck soup I can make with what I ordered, Celene?
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Post by Celene on Oct 19, 2016 11:44:45 GMT -5
I'm sorry, what is the surgery for? The des implant is quick and easy and implanted like a micro chip. It takes about 3-5 minutes and doesn't require any sort of sedation (or blood work either). When I had my boy Ziggy implanted last year I just held him while the vet put it in (it's similar to giving a vaccination, but with a much larger needle that the implant fits in). There was a tiny bit of blood that dribbled from the site for an hour or so, but other than that he just went about his business! It didn't require any sort of follow-up or special diet either. For future reference though, our soupie recipe is great for any ferret who is too ill to eat on their own. You can substitute the chicken thigh for really any protein that the ferret likes, and mix it up. Depending on the coarseness of the grind, you can also make a pseudo-soup by adding a bit of water to the whole ground rabbit you bought as it contains bone and organ so should be pre-balanced.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2016 19:19:40 GMT -5
Wow, so the first vet gave me information that said the implant was a surgery, incision and all, not just an injection. I don't know where they got their information, but it was filled with lies. On here I read about the implant, but nothing about how they insert it. ; This vet seems much better, a lot more thorough. She's doing some blood work and the results will be back Friday. If everything looks good and no other likely causes show, they should be able to get her the implant right away! Another thing she mentioned was that it looks like Koi had damaged a canine a while ago, it's discolored at the tip. Do you think that'll pose a problem later on? She's gotten by this far, but I'm not sure if that will continue the rest of her life... Is there anything I can do?
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Post by Celene on Oct 19, 2016 22:07:30 GMT -5
Hopefully the blood work comes back clean! I wouldn't worry too much about the tooth, unless it is broken very far up. My Mocha came to us with a broken canine, and although it is discoloured it doesn't affect her. I would recommend keeping an eye out for symptoms such as abscess (red swelling at gums), pain, tooth grinding, dead tooth, etc. On a side note, have you been able to get liver/organ to make soupies with?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 0:23:13 GMT -5
It's just discolored at the tip, kind of a potato color. Umm, a dead tooth... Would that be like a black, blue, or red color? Basically dark like it's necrotic inside? I will be as soon as I get the food tomorrow, should be in 12-15 hours. Between work, the vet appointments, class, and school appointments/projects/labs, I haven't had much time after the kits get their playtime. But I have all day tomorrow and nothing else to do, so that's immediate priority!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2016 4:03:43 GMT -5
So good news and bad news. Good news: Organ soupie is all made up! 16 oz heart, 6 oz liver, 10 oz kidney. I'm hoping it masks the liver taste a bit more, since the kits find it bitter and don't like it. Going to have to starve them out and hand feed to get them to eat it, but not frequently stopping to shake their head from liver will hopefully help.
Is that ratio acceptable? I only made a small batch in case it wasn't okay to have the smaller amount of liver...
Bad news: Apparently I live in the apartment next to a junkie. No one knows what happened, except that she left her apartment and a fire started. They think she was drunk or high, and took off without realizing there was a fire hazard. Whatever it was. Not freaking happy. I could only carry one kennel, so everyone got thrown into one tight space. I'm pretty sure they didn't breathe much smoke, I covered the kennel with a thick wool-lined sweater and ran through the hallway to get outside. They were crammed in there for half an hour while I tried to figure out what was going on, then I let the adults out in my car so the kits could relax. Only one actual bite that I know of (half-bite, I yelled and startled Ciel), the rest seemed to be Aya doing the scared-yelling. No blood, no poof, no pee or poop in the kennel, and no wet spots on any of them. They did really well with the situation, I just hope it didn't traumatize the kits. I cuddled with them right afterwards to give them attention, but I'm not really sure what would help them...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2016 10:36:45 GMT -5
Blood work finally came back. WBC was a little low, and kidney values were a little elevated. Both could be normal for her, or she might have been slightly dehydrated. She's been drinking water and her urine looked pretty light in color when they collected it, so I don't think it's dehydration. BG and urine look really good, and no parasites in her poop. They can go ahead with the DES but the one they had recently expired, so they need to call on Monday to order more. :/ Her poop started to get foamy yesterday, but I think that was just introducing the kidney to the organ soupies, since according to the poop chart it's likely a new food or treat.
Friday AM organs Friday PM chicken wing, lung treats Saturday AM chicken wing, because their PM meal wasn't until 4am and I had early work. They haven't finished the first wing and I know that they'll skip it in favor of pork or beef, want to make sure they all get bone
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Post by Celene on Oct 22, 2016 11:27:09 GMT -5
Sorry to hear about the fire scare, but I'm glad everyone is okay!
Your organ soup is fine short term (i.e. better than nothing), but the liver and kidney should really be a 50/50 split as liver is essential to their health. Usually if I have not enough of one thing/too much of another, I'll make a big of a batch as possible while keeping the ratio balanced, then freeze the rest to use in the next batch. You can also try topping the soupie with a little salmon oil or egg yolk to get them interested in it.
Glad to hear about the lab tests, I hope they get the implant in soon for you!
Posting your menu a day or two at a time doesn't help me. Please post your actual menu for the past 7 days, as well as your anticipated menu for the upcoming week.
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Post by Celene on Oct 27, 2016 9:42:00 GMT -5
How is everything going @booker?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 21:27:41 GMT -5
Sorry, I typed out a response, but I guess I never hit sent. :/
No problem on the menu comment, I actually just got a notebook to start writing everything down for logging their meals in one place, so I can type that up once a week. As for the last week, I have time to type everything tomorrow after work. They're written in a few different places that I need to gather first.
I'm getting really frustrated with this vet. So I was told that Friday would be when the results were back. Didn't hear back from them. I call Friday night and I'm told they're getting everything on Saturday. I get the call Saturday morning, all fine. I'm told they need to order the implant on Monday and they'd call when they knew the estimated delivery. I hear nothing Monday or Tuesday. On Wednesday morning I call to see if they've ordered it, thinking maybe they were busy and couldn't call me. I'm put on hold for a while, then she comes back to say that they haven't ordered it because they need to find someone else to split a 2-pack with them. I say that she'll need a second one in 6 months anyway (another vet mentioned they expired after a year?). She says okay and that she would let them know, but haven't heard back from them on whether or not they ordered anything. They could've called to say that they were trying to find someone... Or ordered it, and *then* looked. She's getting worse every day, she now has diarrhea constantly (she's hydrated, urine is close to clear) and looks like she lost more weight. (Will get a weight tomorrow too) Decided that I'll call again in the morning, and if they haven't ordered it, I'll go somewhere else. If I have to wait no matter what, I'd rather wait with someone who will actually order it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2016 9:06:02 GMT -5
They still haven't freaking ordered it! It's only available in the 5 pack right now, so the nurse is trying to find another clinic to split it. But I'll need more than that anyway! Koi needs one now and a second in 6-9 months. And the male kits I wanted to get chemically castrated, after a season and in a year. That's at least 6 within the 2-year shelf life (according to a few hospitals that get virbac frequently enough to make their own info page). She said she would talk to the nurse in charge and get it figured out, and call me back so I can decide what to do (stay or find another vet). She just got let out to play earlier, and couldn't stay awake even 10 minutes before she went into a dead sleep. I hate seeing her like this, and I'm already looking at 2 weeks to get the implant and 2 more to see improvements in her... She looks like she's wasting away, her hind end looks emaciated when she breathes out... The hair is sorta growing back, but everything else is still in full force.
They could've just called me to talk about the implant. Seriously. Could have avoided all of this poop and ordered the freaking thing on Monday.
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Post by Celene on Oct 28, 2016 20:23:26 GMT -5
I'm sorry you're having a hard time getting the implant. I hope they are able to work it out! One option would be to pay for the entire 5 pack yourself if you are going to use them anyway. It would cost more up front, but the vet might give you a discount on them for buying in bulk. I look forward to seeing your menu By the way, did you receive your Hare Today order?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2016 23:40:46 GMT -5
It sounds like they got another clinic to send an extra one, and it should be there on Monday. But it's another "we'll call you" situation. Yeah, I'm going to bring up paying up front once the kits go into season (~3-4 months from now?), hopefully they'll actually order a pack then. Yeah! I actually received it a day early. I used the lamb kidneys from it for the organ soupies. They seem to be okay with the new taste after a bit of salmon oil enticing. Friday AM: Organs (heart, kidney, liver; 50/30/20) Friday PM: Chicken wings, lung treats Saturday AM: Chicken wings Saturday PM: Pork Sunday AM: Organs Sunday PM: Chicken wings Monday AM: Pork Monday PM: Chicken wings Tuesday AM: Organs Tuesday PM: Beef Wednesday AM: Pork w/ bone meal Wednesday PM: Lamb, bone-in Thursday AM: Chicken wings Thursday PM: Beef, adults 8 oz, kits 12 oz Friday AM: Organs Friday PM: Beef, adults 4 oz, kits 8 oz Last week's was adding kidney with the organs. This week I'm adding in rabbit in place of half of the bone-in meals. Booker won't be happy, but he'll need to adjust. It might screw up their meals to get them all to eat it, so I was thinking I would do the ground rabbit (with organs and bone), and just brush their teeth more. Would that be okay? Hopefully not more than 2-3 days, but Booker is extra stubborn. I'll look at your prey + frankenprey document once I know how many prey meals there are, then move to rabbit chunks for bone-in frankenprey. I also started weighing out the bags when I cut pork and beef, so I can start recording weights
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Post by Celene on Oct 29, 2016 22:42:08 GMT -5
Other than the menu being too chicken-heavy, it looks well-balanced! Let me know how the rabbit and quail introductions go.
If you are feeding the rabbit grind, it counts as a "whole" meal on the chart because it contains heart and organs. Up to two meals a week you can just replace bone-in meals with the grind.
I hope Koi is able to get the implant in soon, I'm glad they found one!
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