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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 11:51:36 GMT -5
Lady Morgaine is now 5 yrs old, Lady Lola 4. Both jills seem to only consider falsing once per season. Both girls without question can and do bring themselves out. Lady Lola's daughters, we will see. Both girls brought themselves out easily last season (their first). The naughty wee things are thinking about coming in right now. There's a v-hob who is ready and willing so I have no concerns. Their mate has not reached maturity yet but he will hopefully be available for them next season ciao My Gaia and Käpik brought themselves out of season in December. They started to have season in the end of the November and it was about 3-4 weeks and then it went really cold in here -30C and girls packed their swallen backsides together and about 2-3 days and it was totally gone, like nothing never happend. Now when it started to get warmer again, abuot 2 weeks ago they started to show the signs that they are going into season again. Gaia is really hurrying, couple days ago I posted photo her vulva here and today it started to change color - you can see a little purple/blue some sides and it is getting bigger and bigger. It´s like she is going to explode soon and offcourse my home smells - they bomb all the time, even then they are sleeping. Today mornging I came from my bedroom to living room, where they live, and oh my god, it smelled so bad - I had to open windows to get that bomb out of the room.
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Post by Sherry on Jan 29, 2016 12:06:23 GMT -5
All sable ferrets carry the silver gene, it's a dilute of sable and if bred with the right hob you will get silvers, silvers can also carry sable and produce sable when bred with right hob. Since you're only breeding Gaia with him then you'll get dark sables and sables I think you meant all silvers carry the SABLE gene
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 14:08:21 GMT -5
All sable ferrets carry the silver gene, it's a dilute of sable and if bred with the right hob you will get silvers, silvers can also carry sable and produce sable when bred with right hob. Since you're only breeding Gaia with him then you'll get dark sables and sables I think you meant all silvers carry the SABLE gene If you get a sable from silver to albino mating like I got when I bred Whisper with Vinnie then it'll carry the silver gene but yeah all silvers also carry the sable gene
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 14:22:00 GMT -5
I haven't yet found a sable ferret that carries silver. If they carry silver, they show it (unless they are albino). But silvers always carry sable as it is the 'base' colour for a silver
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Post by Heather on Jan 29, 2016 14:32:03 GMT -5
"All sable ferrets carry the silver gene, it's a dilute of sable and if bred with the right hob you will get silvers, silvers can also carry sable and produce sable when bred with right hob. Since you're only breeding Gaia with him then you'll get dark sables and sables.
Albino will dilute what ever colour you put them too, if you put your albino too cinnamon or chocolate then you'll get champagnes also known as sandy. If you bred your albino with a sable then you'll get silvers, cinnamons, champagnes and maybe even chocolates, if you bred your albino with a black self, then you'd get dark sable and sable. And if you bred her with a silver then you'd get DEWs."
All ferrets carry the ability to turn an albino...not a silver. Silvers are dilutes, created, it is not naturally occurring in a ferret and must be created. The more you dilute the more health issues you create. It's very simple. Breeding for DEWs is the creation of major health issues. Again very simple if you're looking on the surface. Rules, do not breed silvers, do not breed DEWs. Melanoblasts from the TNC don't reach their destination to become pigment cells. The visible result is a white coat. Unfortunately, those cells also do not reach the inner ear = deaf ferret. That's why most DEWs are often Neural Crest or Waardies. The one thing to consider is though many can point their fingers at the big farms (Marshals) and go that won't happen to me but...you can make the exact same mistakes in a much smaller scale when breeding for fancies or colours outside the normal. You can claim not to breed for fancy but if you're breeding for silvers and DEWs you're breeding for fancies and are going to reap the diseases that go with it ciao
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 14:33:43 GMT -5
I haven't yet found a sable ferret that carries silver. If they carry silver, they show it (unless they are albino). But silvers always carry sable as it is the 'base' colour for a silver Those sable kits that I had last year will carry silver, they also had a bit or roan on their legs too maybe it's an indication of them being a carrier of silver
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 14:50:48 GMT -5
Heather Good point well made. I do breed silvers, but *hope* (and I am fully aware I may be deluding myself) by keeping silvers to a minimum, and using only sables wherever possible to breed them to, that I will not be making extreme dilute ferrets and will avoid the major problems associated with this. This year, I may be breeding a champagne and silver together but it's not the ideal. Unfortunately, with these little ones ... if you go for good size and type you just cannot be choosy on colours as there isn't any choice. @frolickingferrets I would be interested to see if any sables from that breeding had silvers in their litters. If silver could be carried, it would be a recessive gene, meaning it would need to come from both parents. I have bred silvers to ferrets that I know for sure have no silver in their background and got 50:50 silvers and sables (it should be closer to 25% if it was a recessive), and I have bred sable ferrets with silver in the immediate preceding generation and got no silvers. As an example, I bred Sydney to two sisters (parents were sable and silver), one sister was silver and one sister was sable. Sydney definitely has no silver in his background anywhere. The silver sister had 3 silvers and 2 sables, the sable sister simply had 3 sables. Small size litters, but this is exactly what I expected as silver mitt in the UK is a dominant gene, therefore it cannot be carried.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 15:06:09 GMT -5
Heather Good point well made. I do breed silvers, but *hope* (and I am fully aware I may be deluding myself) by keeping silvers to a minimum, and using only sables wherever possible to breed them to, that I will not be making extreme dilute ferrets and will avoid the major problems associated with this. This year, I may be breeding a champagne and silver together but it's not the ideal. Unfortunately, with these little ones ... if you go for good size and type you just cannot be choosy on colours as there isn't any choice. @frolickingferrets I would be interested to see if any sables from that breeding had silvers in their litters. If silver could be carried, it would be a recessive gene, meaning it would need to come from both parents. I have bred silvers to ferrets that I know for sure have no silver in their background and got 50:50 silvers and sables (it should be closer to 25% if it was a recessive), and I have bred sable ferrets with silver in the immediate preceding generation and got no silvers. As an example, I bred Sydney to two sisters (parents were sable and silver), one sister was silver and one sister was sable. Sydney definitely has no silver in his background anywhere. The silver sister had 3 silvers and 2 sables, the sable sister simply had 3 sables. Small size litters, but this is exactly what I expected as silver mitt in the UK is a dominant gene, therefore it cannot be carried. All of last years kits have gone to pet homes and aren't being bred from but I will be repeating that mating again so I'm expecting silvers and sables though I don't know if I'll be keeping any.
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Post by Heather on Jan 29, 2016 15:30:00 GMT -5
If you're not planning on keeping any, why breed? Not putting you on, just curious. I only breed if I want something in particular. I'm planning on breeding Lady Lola, this year, this will be her second and last breeding because I want a hob (in need of a v-hob for a back up). If I had got a hob out of her last breeding, I wouldn't bother at all. I kept her daughters and they are more of what I wanted to see....an improvement on her and Tico. The mating between her and Tico improved my poley line so if it wasn't for that hob I wouldn't breed her again, there is no reason to and I'd just wait to breed her daughters. The problem I've run into is that the girls' mate isn't old enough yet, so it would be at least next year before they're bred and another year on that before any hob would be ready to be vasectomized. That would make my present v-hob at least 7 yrs of age. Not that he wouldn't be up for the job, just that ferrets are ferrets....and 7 yrs is becoming a more dangerous age for illnesses. ciao
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Post by Blue on Jan 29, 2016 15:40:31 GMT -5
Heather, do you mind if I ask what happened to Radagast? Please ignore this if it's too painful. I was brokenhearted when I heard the news, and it must have been a thousand times worse for you.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 16:16:14 GMT -5
If you're not planning on keeping any, why breed? Not putting you on, just curious. I only breed if I want something in particular. I'm planning on breeding Lady Lola, this year, this will be her second and last breeding because I want a hob (in need of a v-hob for a back up). If I had got a hob out of her last breeding, I wouldn't bother at all. I kept her daughters and they are more of what I wanted to see....an improvement on her and Tico. The mating between her and Tico improved my poley line so if it wasn't for that hob I wouldn't breed her again, there is no reason to and I'd just wait to breed her daughters. The problem I've run into is that the girls' mate isn't old enough yet, so it would be at least next year before they're bred and another year on that before any hob would be ready to be vasectomized. That would make my present v-hob at least 7 yrs of age. Not that he wouldn't be up for the job, just that ferrets are ferrets....and 7 yrs is becoming a more dangerous age for illnesses. ciao The reason I'm not keeping from Whisper and Vinnie kit is because I don't want to keep anything related to Vinnie and I'm likely going to keep a kit from Willow who's Whisper's sister as she's being mated to an unrelated hob.
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Post by Heather on Jan 29, 2016 16:45:24 GMT -5
Hi Blue....it's painful but it's something that has been dealt with. Radagast was a heart ferret and they always break your heart. He developed a tumour on his jaw. It was benign, it wasn't genetic...call it a fluke. It's like why do some people develop cancer but have no reason to develop it...it happens. I had my vet research it, even picked Katt's brains about it as it also appears in humans. When a vet or Dr says benign it doesn't mean it doesn't grow or threaten your quality of life, it just doesn't spread to other parts of the body or affect organs, it won't kill you. It's been seen in dogs and cats, it's not common. Surgery is the primary option but because it's actually in the bone, it cannot be encapsulated. The first surgery on Radagast removed the tumour and 3 of his teeth. It also dug into the front of the jaw. Four months later it had reappeared and I had to make the horrible decision to either end his life or repeat the surgery. To be honest my vet wanted to repeat the surgery, she just had a very hard time taking the life of what appeared to be a strong 10 month old ferret. The surgeon on the other hand told me that it was cruel and needless that no matter what he did Radagast would loose more and more of his jaw and his teeth and the tumour would continue to return. As difficult as it was to do, I chose to end Radagast's life before he had to suffer more. He had stopped eating whole food by this point and the tumour was making it difficult to rip and tear at his food. He could have eaten soupy but the next surgery would have removed both lower canines and his tongue would have probably poked out as that portion of the jaw would be removed. As bacterial diseases often occur on the skin of the tongue when left out to dry for prolonged periods of time, there was that also that had to be considered. Maybe, others would have opted for more surgeries and allowed him a longer period of time I couldn't do that to him. Radagast was the runt of the litter and his mother kept leaving him behind whenever she moved her nest. I would find him and return him to his mom and littermates. She wasn't prepared to kill him but she would have left him to die. The line of wild creatures knowing, comes to mind in this case. Lady Lola knew by instinct that he wasn't right.....I messed with nature and paid the price. That's what happened to Radagast. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 17:08:50 GMT -5
Hi Blue....it's painful but it's something that has been dealt with. Radagast was a heart ferret and they always break your heart. He developed a tumour on his jaw. It was benign, it wasn't genetic...call it a fluke. It's like why do some people develop cancer but have no reason to develop it...it happens. I had my vet research it, even picked Katt's brains about it as it also appears in humans. When a vet or Dr says benign it doesn't mean it doesn't grow or threaten your quality of life, it just doesn't spread to other parts of the body or affect organs, it won't kill you. It's been seen in dogs and cats, it's not common. Surgery is the primary option but because it's actually in the bone, it cannot be encapsulated. The first surgery on Radagast removed the tumour and 3 of his teeth. It also dug into the front of the jaw. Four months later it had reappeared and I had to make the horrible decision to either end his life or repeat the surgery. To be honest my vet wanted to repeat the surgery, she just had a very hard time taking the life of what appeared to be a strong 10 month old ferret. The surgeon on the other hand told me that it was cruel and needless that no matter what he did Radagast would loose more and more of his jaw and his teeth and the tumour would continue to return. As difficult as it was to do, I chose to end Radagast's life before he had to suffer more. He had stopped eating whole food by this point and the tumour was making it difficult to rip and tear at his food. He could have eaten soupy but the next surgery would have removed both lower canines and his tongue would have probably poked out as that portion of the jaw would be removed. As bacterial diseases often occur on the skin of the tongue when left out to dry for prolonged periods of time, there was that also that had to be considered. Maybe, others would have opted for more surgeries and allowed him a longer period of time I couldn't do that to him. Radagast was the runt of the litter and his mother kept leaving him behind whenever she moved her nest. I would find him and return him to his mom and littermates. She wasn't prepared to kill him but she would have left him to die. The line of wild creatures knowing, comes to mind in this case. Lady Lola knew by instinct that he wasn't right.....I messed with nature and paid the price. That's what happened to Radagast. ciao This is such a heartbreaking story :-( you have my sympathy.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 17:10:53 GMT -5
So sorry to hear that Heather. How heartbreaking. You did what was best for him and he would thank you for considering his welfare above all else.
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Post by crazylady on Jan 29, 2016 17:39:41 GMT -5
I think what a lot of people forget is each parent gives 50% of its genetic makeup to a kit so if you have a domesticated poley ( its hard to prove its from wild line there are no pedigrees it is simply do you trust where ever it came from to be telling you the whole truth !) and a silver in the background of silver there is a lot of recessive gene or the dominant gene of the poley would block any recessives unless you know 100% what is in the back ground its a lottery look at wild poleys the undercoat is always golden yet a lot of poley who there owners claim are hybrids come into the show ring with light cream or white undercoats why its simple that's what the breeders have bred and laid down that as part of the class standard( yes they had bred poley to poley but domesticated poley who may have a touch of albino in the background are a lot more mellow ) but the owners believe oh no this is a hybrid poley I have been around wild poleys and believe me you can not get within ten feet of them even as kits they hiss snarl and attack and if you try to tame them a lot die due to stress or moms nursing kits will kill them and move on rather than allow any human to go near them and simply mate and breed another litter when they feel comfortable breeding from a hybrid is also difficult they have to have complete trust in you they are in total control some hybrids simply refuse to breed no matter how hard the owners try my advice to anyone starting a line is document everything and your base line must carry question marks if you cannot go back five generations document what is produced from what mating colour sex and how many and any health problems even the date of death must be documented so if you sell kits keep in contact with owners this is the only way you find out the full history of the line you are hoping to develop and if problems arise don't be afraid to contact owners and share any problems even if it means killing a line dead and starting again remember things beyond a breeders control do happen I know heather feed her guys only the best and had the best care but she went the extra mile she had the vet do tests and unfortunately her baby was simply unlucky nothing genetic just pure heart breaking bad luck take care bye for now Bev
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