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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 13:05:56 GMT -5
I've been pronouncing it correctly! Yay! (giggle) Nail clipping can be such a hard task at times. My boy Yuki is very wriggly and seems to go through the oil and duck fat quite fast hahahaha! Vet's have studied a great amount to become qualified, but they also continue to learn as they work. ^^ There is alot of research behind raw feeding. You should suggest your vet look into some of Bob Church's research. He does alot of articles on how kibble is bad for ferrets. Here's a good article! www.stripedbandits.com/why-kibble-destroys-teeth.html
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2015 10:01:23 GMT -5
UPDATE: Oberyn's first vet appointment went great! I took a stool sample and they said it is perfectly healthy. The vet even told me that Oberyn is one of the handsomest ferrets he's ever seen! ;-) Oberyn got his first distemper shot and got his nails trimmed. As for the food, the vet loved loved loved my kibble and said he's never seen a ferret owner do as much research as I have before. However when I mentioned raw feeding his face got really uneasy and he told me that's not a good idea, which discouraged me a bit. He said that there is no research what so ever saying that raw feeding is better and he even went as far to say it's stupid. Now, I expected this reaction based on what other people have said about their vets but I left the vet feeling very discouraged. Have any of you had a vet disapprove of the raw diet? How did you deal with it? Also while I was at the vet they used what I believe is called ferremite to calm him down while clipping his nails and giving him a shot. It's the stuff in a bottle that you put on your finger and they lap it up. Do you Amy of you use this? Is it okay for them as a treat when I clip nails or clean ears? Your vet means well but he is simply wrong about research. As @machan mentioned, there is a leading ferret expert. Bob Church has a PHD in Zooology and publishes studies on raw feeding. He also writes for the Small Animal Channel and Ferret Magazine. He attends ferret symposiums and offers information to ferrents. holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/49/bob-churchs-observations-diet-insulinomaHere are a few other published studies: www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=479dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/73574421/PetFoodReport_BFUSA.pdfMy Vet works for the Nashville Zoo and disapproves of raw feeding. He sees too many pet owners who do not take the time to learn what is an animal's nutritional requirements. Improperly balanced raw diets can lead to health issues just like we know that kibble will lead to health issues. Most vets especially those who are not exotic specialists receive very little in the way of nutrition courses and those studies are funded by pet food companies. Add to that, a vet will make a nice profit selling kibble to owners who trust their vet. Like I said, they do mean well in most cases. As for nail clipping, most of us use a human grade salmon oil. Grizzly brand is what I use. You put some on their tummy and they are distracted while licking it off. Salmon oil is healthy and full of the Omega Fatty acids that are wonderful. Salmon is an excellent source of vitamin B12, vitamin D, and selenium. It is a good source of niacin, omega-3 fatty acids, protein, phosphorus, and vitamin B6. It is also a good source of Choline, Pantothenic acid, biotin, and potassium. Look at the ingredients in Ferretone. I couldn't find Ferretmite. I believe they use either Ferretone or Ferretvite. Ferretvite is full of sugar ( we call it Insulinoma in a tube). These are the ingredients: Malt Syrup, Corn Oil, Mono and Diglycerides, Water, Maltodextrin, Lecithin, Molasses, Taurine, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), DL-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate (source of Vitamin E), Cod Liver Oil, Sorbic Acid and Potassium Sorbate (as preservatives), Ferrous Gluconate, Magnesium Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Niacinamide, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Palmitate, Potassium Iodide, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Mannitol, Cholecalciferol (source of Vitamin D3), and Vitamin B12 Supplement. Ferretone is controversial because it has cancer causing agents BHT and BHA. The ingredients are: Soybean Oil, Cod Liver Oil, Lecithin, Wheat Germ Oil, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Mono and Diglycerides, and BHT and Propyl Paraben (as preservatives). We also avoid Cod Liver Oil because it is full of Vitamin A. That's fat soluable and too much can build up in their system and become toxic. Ferretone also includes extra Vitamin A. I know that's alot of info. You're doing research and are enthusiastic about finding what is best for Oberyn. I just love that. Great Ferrenting! (dance)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2015 21:57:09 GMT -5
UPDATE: I introduced Oberyn to Stella and chewys today and he loved it. I also fed him some more chicken thigh and he ate quite a bit! I'm going to an Asian market and international store tomorrow to get more proteins. Chicken and duck wings for sure to get him started on bones and probably some pork and beef meat to try. Maybe Lamb if I can find a cheap cut.
I think I forgot to mention that I grew up on a beef farm and my dad is going to stock up here soon. He hasn't slaughtered in about 2 years so I hope he will soon and I could get beef organs for free! :-)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2015 23:07:38 GMT -5
Great work!! Its always great to have a big variety of proteins, so if you see specials do snatch them up! ^^ Lamb can be quite expensive. Its also very pricey where I live, so Its always great when I find specials or reduced prices. If you can get your hands on some Turkey/Duck Necks or Turkey wings, those too can be a great bone in meat. Necks are usually tough, so I cut mine up into discs and the ferrets do the rest. Lamb is a hypoallergenic meat, so its the least likely meat to have any allergies for ferrets. Chicken is a hyperallergenic meat so its more likely to to cause allergies among ferrets. Its the main reason everyone says to avoid having a too heavy chicken diet. Yay for free organs!! That would be so great for Oberyn and you would also save money~!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2015 14:49:09 GMT -5
Hey everyone. Just bought some organs and meat. I was wondering how exactly should I go about storing it? I have a small deep freeze. I was thinking I could cut all the meats up and bag them into weighed bags. Then put the weighed baggies into Tupperware labeled "pork brains, duck wings etc." I have to run to the store to get a scale weight and bags. Does this sound like a good plan? What do you guys do?
Also, a little off topic but I've noticed that oberyn has been laying flat on his belly a lot the last few days. Is this normal? He didn't do it the first few days I had him. He still plays and runs around but he's been sleeping a lot more and laying on his stomach. I think it might just be because he has gotten more comfortable with the house. But it is weirding me out a bit. Is this normal behavior?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2015 15:08:09 GMT -5
Thats good! That's how I do things. I cut them up, zip lock bag them, label and store in containers for easy storage and freezing. Then you can simply defrost and serve. ^^
Oberyn may possibly be bored. How long does he lay on his stomach for? If it happens after playing for a bit, I think they call it speed bump or something, and basically he's catching a breath and would go back to playing. How long does he get play time? Does he have toys or tunnels ? Is he lethargic? or any other signs? What about weather, is it hot where you are?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2015 16:22:14 GMT -5
It is currently raining and it's a little hot outside being summer still but my apartment is air conditioned very well. He has essentially taken over my room and his cage is only shut at night when we sleep. I got a baby gate and blocked the door way off so he can't slither under the door. I even leave the door open so the kitten can come inside and play, they have really bonded over the last week it's kind of adorable. He probably has way more toys than he should have. For the bags I was thinking about 2oz bags per meal. So he would get about 4oz a day. With the exception of organs in 1oz bags. Also is it best to freeze and then cut the meat or should I cut it thawed then refreeze it?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2015 16:58:22 GMT -5
That sounds good! The speed bumping doesn't really sound like something to worry about. If it was to be happening all the time then he would probably need a vet check just in case, but it really sounds like he's just become tired. He is pretty young. I saw my male doing it as well, though at the time he was 6 months and managed to over excite himself until he got tired. The average for boys is 3-4 ounces per day. My boy eats up to 3-4 ounces per meal and up to 6-8 ounces per day. He was especially eating alot during the start of the switch. They tend to do that when they're gaining back lost nutrients and start detoxing from the kibble. It really depends on the ferret, but you're off to a good start so try the 2oz meals for now. If you feel it necessary to add on one more 1oz, then go for it. ^^ By the way, have you weighed him yet? I like to cut up the meats and organs when they're thawed out. Try either one and what ever feels best for you is the way to go. ^^ I bag the meals in 4oz bags, mainly to suit my boys and 3oz for my girl. My boys eat alot and its always mainly my youngest. How is Oberyn today? (or tonight for you possibly?)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2015 17:12:07 GMT -5
I just got home and found him curled up behind my dresser....it is kind of worrying me because he's usually a lot more busy. But I read that ferrets typically sleep around 18 hours a day so I'm hoping that's what it is. Right now he is sleeping on me, and he's never done that. Usually when he's out the cage he's sniffing and exploring about. I may call the vet and see if it's possible he's having a reaction to the vaccination.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2015 17:15:37 GMT -5
Sounds good. I plan to cut up some meat and bag them later this week when I can get a scale. Does anyone know where to get one? I went to Walmart but they didn't have it. I even asked 3 different employees and they all said they don't know where it would be.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2015 17:29:03 GMT -5
Ferrets do sleep alot, but if you think that it's out of character for him then its always worth calling up to the vet just in case. Even if its a false alarm, its still better than risking a reaction thats for sure. I do hope that he's just a sleepy ferret. I've never had any of my three yet fall asleep on me. My female did go into a dead sleep though and that was quite interesting. ^^ Let me know how the vet call goes.
I'm not too sure about where you could get a scale, since I'm in Australia. You probably wouldn't want to buy one online, so Hopefully someone else can chip in and help you out with that one. Have you tried the kitchen section? (I actually have no clue on what sections walmart has.)
@poncesmom do you have any ideas on where to get a scale?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2015 17:49:06 GMT -5
Oberyn isn't feeling well? He might just be sleepy like @machan mentioned. They do sleep alot if nothing is going on. He could also be a night ferret. Two of my girls play and eat mainly at night. Ferrets are most active during dawn and dusk. He had his shots on Thursday right? They usually will keep him for a hour or so to see if there are any reactions. Look at the poop chart. There is a vaccine poop on the chart. Vaccine poops are usually gone within a day or two. holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/2469/poop-chartYou said your apartment is nice and cool? Do his ears, nose and paws look a nice healthy pink? Is he pooping okay? If he ate something he shouldn't have, he will have super thin pencil like poops. Is he eating well and drinking well? I believe in trusting our instincts. We kind of know when something is off. You're a new ferrent, so there are alot of behaviors and signs of trouble that will be new to you. We're now at Saturday night. Keep an eye on him and if he begins to vomit, appears to crash or struggles and whimpers when he poops, take him to an emergency vet. Otherwise, it may just be an off day. We all have them. Days when we just don't feel like playing or feel kind of crummy. I bought my scale from Amazon. You just need a small pet scale or a kitchen scale that will go up to about five pounds. If Oberyn weighs more than five pounds, we want pictures. Walmart should have had a kitchen scale in their kitchen section. This is the one I bought but you can find other ones for less. www.amazon.com/ZIEIS-Capacity-Z15P-DURA-Platform-Accuracy/dp/B0040HHMC8/ref=sr_1_4?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1442097948&sr=1-4&keywords=pet+scalesKeep us posted and give him a hug from me when he wakes up. :wave3:
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2015 17:57:51 GMT -5
I think he was just sleepy because he's totally fine now. I'll keep an eye on him and if the behavior progresses I'll definitely call the vet. Right now he's trying to dig a hole through my bed. UPDATE: I wasn't able to find any wings besides chicken today is cornish game hen okay to start out on bones? I want to avoid chicken altogether I think. So instead of introducing bones today I let Oberyn try some pork chop and boy did he love that! I thought he was going to swallow my finger when he got ahold of the fatty parts. I figured pork chop would be a good starter into pork. Today I bought pork tongue, heart, kidney, liver and brains. :-) What meaty parts of pork do you guys usually feed? I also found some ground rabbit meat today for $4! I'm definitely excited to try that out. I also bought beef liver. My roommate who is a psychology major bought some duck heads so she can look at their brains! Hahaha. It seems for my bone in meats I'll have to order them online. But I'm okay with that. Shipping will be costly but I can order in bulk.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2015 18:01:07 GMT -5
His poops are fine and he's acting fine now. I guess he was just extra sleepy today. I did enjoy him sleeping on me though. :-)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2015 18:19:56 GMT -5
I think he was just sleepy because he's totally fine now. I'll keep an eye on him and if the behavior progresses I'll definitely call the vet. Right now he's trying to dig a hole through my bed. UPDATE: I wasn't able to find any wings besides chicken today is cornish game hen okay to start out on bones? I want to avoid chicken altogether I think. So instead of introducing bones today I let Oberyn try some pork chop and boy did he love that! I thought he was going to swallow my finger when he got ahold of the fatty parts. I figured pork chop would be a good starter into pork. Today I bought pork tongue, heart, kidney, liver and brains. :-) What meaty parts of pork do you guys usually feed? I also found some ground rabbit meat today for $4! I'm definitely excited to try that out. I also bought beef liver. My roommate who is a psychology major bought some duck heads so she can look at their brains! Hahaha. It seems for my bone in meats I'll have to order them online. But I'm okay with that. Shipping will be costly but I can order in bulk. I'm glad he is up and feeling full of play. He's young and needs to play alot and will sleep alot. He's a growing boy. Cornish game hen is great. Smart boy knows he needs his healthy food. He is trying to get those nutrients that are not found in kibble. I buy fatty pork butt roast. That's a muscle meat. I also buy pork brains (organ meat) and pork tongues or hearts (muscle meats). The duck heads can be a treat to play with, once your roommate finishes dissecting them. If your roommie likes dissecting stuff, then he/she will have a blast with a raw fed ferret and everything you bring home.
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