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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2015 20:10:22 GMT -5
Hello fellow ferrents!
I am a new member to the forum and also a new ferret owner. My little buddy's name is Oberyn and he is absolutely perfect!
I joined the forum for any questions that may arise as I raise Oberyn, but most importantly I want to learn more about Raw feeding. So I have started this thread to more or less document Oberyn's transition!
For now I am feeding Oberyn a mix of Path Valley Formula and Wysong Epigen 90 Digestive Support. I am gradually getting him off the path valley and onto the Epigen. I also plan to introduce him to Stella and Chewy's Freeze Dried later this week. In the meantime I am planning and prepping for Oberyns raw diet!
Today I fed Oberyn a very small trial portion of chicken thigh. And he liked it! However, he kind of just licked it and chewed a bit. He swallowed two very small pieces after I warmed them up for a few seconds on a skillet, the rest of the pieces he tried to store in his litter box. ._.
I'm hoping Stella and Chewy's will help him get used to the taste and texture of meat. He is very young, just at 3 months, so I'm hoping if I keep trying with chicken he will catch on soon.
As for what I plan to feed Oberyn once it's all said and done, I'm still not sure 100% but I definitely have some ideas. I know I'd like to feed Duck,Turkey,Pork, Lamb and some Rabbit and Beef. Maybe a little bit of Chicken though I think Duck and Turkey would be better. I would also like to feed whole prey and some eggs as treats. So far I haven't had much luck finding certain organs but I may try an Asian market in Cincinnati and see what they have. There is a large International Market a few towns over that has quite a nice selection, particularly pork and beef. They also have duck heads and feet and other cool stuff. I was also introduced to My Pet Carnivore and HareToday websites today and they have everything I need, but boy is the shipping extremely costly! If I have no luck finding Rabbit meat and organs I may have to turn to that.
Regarding Whole Prey I would like to feed oberyn pinkie mice and baby quail. But I was wondering if day old quail were too big? I know a lot of people feed chicks so I was curious. I've heard a lot of good things about quail. Also is there anything I should know before I feed whole prey?
I think that is about it for now. I will keep you guys posted on Oberyns progress. If anyone has any advice or thoughts they like to share please do so! I want to learn more!
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Post by raynebc on Sept 7, 2015 20:19:31 GMT -5
When I got my most recent ferrets I switched them off kibble cold turkey and gave them freeze dried raw soup for a couple days and then started mixing it with a ground meat (lamb for one meal, pork for the next, etc) to get them used to different proteins. Before long they were eating chunks of bone in meat as large as my veteran ferrets eat and they have quite the appetite by comparison.
For whole prey, go with adult animals as they are more nutritious. People feed day old chicks as treats, so I don't think a quail will be too big. Some people will toss their ferrets some larger (pre-killed) animals like guinea pigs or whole chickens and those get picked clean by experienced ferrets.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2015 21:08:49 GMT -5
Sounds great! You should give Oberyn an egg a week. Most people on here have an egg day. I do Wednesday as egg day and give my ferrets an egg. Eggs help with keeping hairballs away. ;u;
I think the reason My Pet Carnivore and HareToday have expensive costs is because they may be for buying things in bulk. Baby animals are treats. They're also especially good if you want to introduce whole prey to Oberyn. I gave mine pinky mice, and then eventually gave them the next size bigger until they can handle an adult mouse or rat themselves. ^^
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 14:17:34 GMT -5
I think I will get the baby quail and pinkie mice. Quail is very hard to find but I've heard that it's very good! I've never fed whole prey though, so is there anything I should consider before I feed it to him? Do I just feed it and see what happens? This morning I managed to get Oberyn to eat a few pieces of egg. I had to cook it for him to even touch it, I'm hoping that if I gradually cook it less and less I can just feed it to him without cooking at all. Most of the pieces he just tried to carry off and hide in his litter box. The litter I have is recycled paper pellets and it is a lot like the bedding he lived in at the pet store, so I guess he is used to playing in it. He tried to do the same thing with the chicken pieces, is there a way I can curb this behavior? I'm going to try and get some chicken in him tonight, so hopefully he will eat more. He seems to like the chicken more if I heat it up for a few seconds on a skillet, is it bad for me to do that? Right now I just want him to get used to the taste of meat because I'm still figuring out everything. I'm also interested to hear what you guys do with your ferrets. How do you feed? Is there a system you follow like the Frankenprey model. Do you have a routine? How do you go about stocking, freezing and thawing meat etc? I really don't want to rush into this without some sort of plan, especially considering I've never had a pet that I fed raw meat.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 21:40:15 GMT -5
Quail is also hard to find where I live also. I've never fed Quail yet, but I've been told its perfect for bone in meat and perfect for their teeth. ;u; I'll tag bitbyter, He'll have some good advice in the whole prey area. ^^ Did you feed the egg cooked? I think i heard somewhere that its good cooked as a treat, but nutritionally wise its much better raw. ^^ You should try giving him egg as raw. Most of the time ferrets will just lap it up~ ^^ Recycled newspaper pellets are perfect. I use those too! My male Yuki used to dig up the litter box. Ferrets love digging so I doubt you'd be able to stop them from doing so. However making a dig box can make things alot easier. Also making a feeding den will help with stashing since ferrets like to eat in privacy. (funny little critters~) Try and cut up some raw chicken into small pieces. I noticed when I was transitioning my two that the smaller the pieces were, the more likely they were to try it. (They also seem to stash less with smaller pieces for some reasons) I wouldn't personally cook the chicken, even partially. But my mentor @poncesmom gave me the idea to put the meat under warm running water. Maybe you could try that and see how he does~ ^^ I really do have a routine, now that I think about it. I do food prepping on a fortnightly basis. Every two weeks and then put the chopped up meats in zip lock bags, put them in labeled containers and freeze them. I currently have two large containers, one for bone in meats like chicken necks, wings and such and another for muscle meats and organ meats. I also put the date and contents on the bags so I know when they need replacing if they don't get used. (but they do) I've planned to replace meats after 6 months. ^^ I recently made a new plan. You can have a look if you want, its on my switching thread. holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/18573/machans-switching-thread-poncesmomYou may have already seen it, but I'll post it just incase. Here's a template plan. It can be quite intimidating at first, but take it one step at a time and eventually you can build a good plan to suit yourself and Oberyn. ^^ You should probably consider starting with the soupie stage, then go to slivers and then try the full meats.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 9:18:03 GMT -5
Last night when I got home I cut up some more chicken thigh and Oberyn ate every bit of it! I was surprised because the night before he acted like he didn't like it. But he ate it all, I was so happy! I think I'm going to train him using the chicken for now and then try other meats like pork and duck. What's a good edible bone to start off with? Chicken wings? And should I cut up the bones or just let him pick at it?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 9:33:19 GMT -5
What a good boy. Chicken wings are great. Quail is great.
He's young. I would cut off the wing tip section and leave that for him. Then cut the rest of the wing, once lengthwise and twice or more width wise.
Do about a week of chicken wings and then it's time to try a new protein. Chicken is a common allergy or intolerance, so watch his poops. If he can't handle the bone yet, give him soupie during the day and chicken wings at night.
You can also hang half or a quarter cornish game hen from a shower hook. The kind that closes fully. Hang it low in his cage where it touches the floor. It's sort of a game and will entice him.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 9:34:26 GMT -5
Also watch his poops to make sure that they don't get too loose if he doesn't eat enough bone. He's a growing boy and needs his calcium. (dance)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 9:58:59 GMT -5
When I started bone in meats for Haru, I used chicken wings. She wasn't touching the wingette as a whole so what i did was I cut the wing into sections. Then I sat with her every meal time and held her firmly. I actually also did the same with the wing tips, because thats what @poncesmom got me to do. ^^ You rub the meat along the gum line and when they open their mouth, hold the bone at the side until they start to chew at it. Haru got quite wriggly, so i suspect that other ferrets will do the same, so hold them firmly and verbally reassure them. They won't like it, but keep in mind its for their health and in the long run it will pay off. ^^ Say things like "come on, chew the yummy chicken~" They seem to be more willing if you really get involved with it. ^^ You will also need to hold on tight to the bone. There will also be times where they will try to lock on to it and run off to stash it, so Just hold your ground and hold them in your lap until they start chewing again. ^^ You could also crush the bone. I tried it but personally it was as effective for me. But every ferret is different so its worth trying alittle of everything incase it may work for you and Oberyn. ^^
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 14:15:13 GMT -5
Right now his stool looks fine, it's a little loose but I believe that's from me switching his kibble. I'm going to the vet tomorrow and I think I'll even take a sample of his stool just to be safe and make sure everything is okay with the little guy. :-)
He really is such a good boy! I feel so lucky. I left him out of his cage in my room today while I was at school and he was totally fine when I got back and he even used the litter box.
As for the raw feeding I will try the wings this weekend I think. The pieces I fed him last night were very small so I'm gonna try to get him to eat bigger ones before I throw in any bones. Thanks for the pics Machan! I'll keep all of this in mind when I feed him wings. When would be a good time to introduce whole prey?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 20:15:00 GMT -5
You do get some funky looking poops when you start a switch. ^^ Good luck with a vet appointment tomorrow!
Oberyn sounds like a champ! Good luck with the wings this weekend! ^^
You could get some pinky mice and try him on those. Are you able to get some where you live? ^^ Pinky mice are quite small. They also feel like soft jelly beans. I started with Pinkies. I was alittle nervous too since its a dead animal but its really not that bad. I went from pinkies to fuzzies, then straight on to adult mice. You don't necessarily have to do them in that order, but it really helps with introducing them to him.^^
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 20:43:35 GMT -5
I like the way to split the chicken wings....that helps
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 9:19:21 GMT -5
UPDATE: Oberyn's first vet appointment went great! I took a stool sample and they said it is perfectly healthy. The vet even told me that Oberyn is one of the handsomest ferrets he's ever seen! ;-) Oberyn got his first distemper shot and got his nails trimmed.
As for the food, the vet loved loved loved my kibble and said he's never seen a ferret owner do as much research as I have before. However when I mentioned raw feeding his face got really uneasy and he told me that's not a good idea, which discouraged me a bit. He said that there is no research what so ever saying that raw feeding is better and he even went as far to say it's stupid. Now, I expected this reaction based on what other people have said about their vets but I left the vet feeling very discouraged. Have any of you had a vet disapprove of the raw diet? How did you deal with it? Also while I was at the vet they used what I believe is called ferremite to calm him down while clipping his nails and giving him a shot. It's the stuff in a bottle that you put on your finger and they lap it up. Do you Amy of you use this? Is it okay for them as a treat when I clip nails or clean ears?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 10:08:29 GMT -5
Yay Oberyn!! Thats fantastic news. Its always the best kind of news knowing a ferret is nice and healthy. Oberyn also has a lovely name, it really seems to match him. ^^ You should post some dangly photos. (Where you hold him up and let him dangle hehe) They're good to have, so then you can look back at the end of the switch and see how much he's improved over time. Alot of Vet's tend to go sour at the mention of raw feeding. I think the only reason they do this most of the time is just in case a person in inexperienced and doesn't balanced out the diet properly. But don't worry, you're doing alot of research and you're learning alot so it will work out fine. Don't let the Vet discourage you. In the end most of the time they only say that for your sake and the animals. However, as long as you build up some solid evidence in a way, you can prove to the vet that this is the best for your animal. Check this out, it has some helpful words on dealing with vets. ^^ rawlearning.com/wp/welcome/and-your-vet-said-what/Another good Idea would to start writing up a ferret Journal. So you can log the information for Oberyn and even show it to your vet. You could also be like me if you would like, and simply collect different articles or pieces of information around. So even if you freeze up when the vet puts you in the spot about raw, you can show him the proof and still be like "No. This is the best for my Oberyn's health and I'm determined to make sure he has a natural diet to live a long healthy life." I literally have a folder filled with things I've learnt from on here, along with the information I collected from my mentor during my switch. ^^ There's nothing more amazing than a pet owner doing all their research for the health of their pet. ^^ You're doing very well, so never feel discouraged. ^^ Hmm, I wasn't sure what ferremite was so I googled it. Could it be ferretvite ? ferretvite contains molasses (sugar) and isn't very healthy for ferrets to be honest. It could also be ferretone, since you mentioned bottle. Avoid it if possible or use it sparingly. It contains BHA and/or BHT and propyl paraben, They both are linked to cancer. If you can get your hands on some salmon oil, that would be a much healthier and safer alternative. ^^ You can even get duck fat and use that as an oil for nail clipping. Thats what I did since I couldn't get salmon oil. The good thing bout it as well, is you can take it with you to the vet next time they need a clipping. Have you learnt to clip nails yet? Its fairly easy. ^^ I was alittle afraid when I first got my two, but I practiced and now I'm doing it easily. You can start by clipping a small amount, just in case you're afraid of clipping too short. Over time when you're comfortable you can cut alittle more.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 12:36:54 GMT -5
Thank you! Oberyn is named after a character in a series of books I've been reading. :3 I hope you guys can pronounce it correctly "O-bur-in" some people can't seem to read it right. I was worried the ferretvite or whatever it's called was bad. I'll see if I can't find any salmon oil because it was so easy to clip his nails while distracting him with that stuff. Thanks for all your input! Also thanks for the resource! Since the vet was so sure that there is no research backing up raw feeding I want to find any research I can contradicting that. I can't go to him with opinions of ferret owners but if I can find actual research results showing that it's healthier then I may be able to sway him to at least accept my choice lol.
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