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Post by Sherry on Aug 2, 2015 10:52:48 GMT -5
I am disgusted by vets who will not, for whatever reason, agree to go with euthanization for very sick animals. Only two vets who I have seen throughout the years have even come close to being blunt about it, and even they never suggested it. I am thinking it must be something with their training. The one vet was actually a research vet with the university here. Closest he got was telling me my cat with fe luk was only going to keep getting sicker and sicker as there was no cure.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 11:02:41 GMT -5
When one of my animals has a big event I put them down before they suffer the next one. I try to get me out of the picture(what this animal does for me). I can cry right now over my didi -- and it has been over 10 years ago.
I have done x-rays,ultra sounds, a surgery , and had people pray for my animals and God give me grace I refuse to let my animal suffer day in and day out (as I did with my sissy with pancreatic cancer) because i do not want to let go. When u see misery in their eyes--let go and cry your heart out (my pet peeve)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 13:32:24 GMT -5
This was an eye opening article. Every life is important regardless of species. I think using drugs to extend life should be avoided... But natural alternatives are a better choice. However, I'm a strong believer in listening to your gut, or in the animals case, the animal. We'll always know when its time and when the time comes, there's no point in trying to stop it from happening out of selfish means. ;n; As hard as it is... Its best to just let them go, especially if they've lived a long healthy life. I do not like to euthanise an animal if an animal has any chances of being 'saved' or 'healed'. Honestly. I would prefer to let the animal decide, and let them naturally pass on. If they're in pain, I would discuss it with my vet before making any kinds of judgment on the matter. (I had to have some puppies euthanised in the past and it was such a depressing thing. ;n; They were growing so well, but eventually became so sick and were not improving... ;n;) Like I said before, Listening to my gut and the animal, I will always know when its time. Every life is unique and some live longer, some live shorter lives but we all have one thing in common and that is we grow old, we could get sick, and we all will eventually die. ;n;
I used to have a rat called Ouzo who led a very happy and healthy life. Since rats were prone to respiratory illnesses, I decided I would use echinacea to keep it under control since it would act as an immune booster. It worked. I only ever gave it to him when necessary and he was clear from anything for his entire 3 years. When he reached 3.5 years he started showing symptoms of ageing. So it was at that time that I thought "Okay, I'm going to start mentally preparing myself because I feel its coming soon..." I got him a friend, who unfortunately made Ouzo's Respiratory Illness become so bad that I was forced to take him to the vet. He was on medicine for a very long while and He didn't seem to be enjoying it. He looked like he was depressed and suffering more than he should. So once his breathing improved and the porphyrin stopped secreting from his nose/eyes. I decided to stop with the medicine and go back to echinacea (yes, I spoke to a vet beforehand). It worked and he was feeling much better, more lively to some degree but unfortunately his health continued to decline. he lost use of his back legs. (paralysis). Ouzo was my close companion and I knew that it was time for him to pass naturally. One day, I just woke up and felt it was the day and I stayed in bed all day with him. Keeping him comfy and warm. He fell asleep and eventually went cold. It was such a sad moment, But I couldn't selfishly drag on his life like that. He lived a great, long and healthy life. So naturally, It was his time and both he and I knew it. ;n;
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 14:40:52 GMT -5
How can an animal decide---I do not understand this at all. Naturally pass on is to me like giving a cancer patient no morphine. You do that to a person and they will be begging someone to take them out of their misery. An animal doesn't not have that luxury. Natural sounds good on paper, but when you r in enough pain, most people's ideals go out the window.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 15:09:54 GMT -5
I think that in the situation where vets won't suggest euthanasia is because people become very upset with the idea, especially when they care more about themselves then their animal. Then some people try to sue for emotional trauma... This is just contemplation.
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Post by Klarissa on Aug 2, 2015 16:13:50 GMT -5
Appeal to nature : Natural is not always better. There is no such thing as a natural death since the human race decided to do a hack job of domesticating & breeding animals. Seldom do pets die of natural causes; every domesticated animal, every breed is bred with most likely cause of death. Saying you want your pets to pass naturally IS akin to not allowing human patients access to pain meds (or doctor assisted suicide, now legal in Canada). Our pets aren't natural, they haven't been natural for decades. There is nothing natural about my dachshunds extra long body. There is nothing natural about about extra large or extra small breed dogs. Our ferrets aren't "natural". They are the product of selective breeding, and unavoidable inbreeding.
Vets require hundreds, even thousands of volunteer hours to get into DVM program. It's so the students don't come in under some sort of illusion. Some fantasy of the job playing with kitties & puppies. Being a vet means regularly having euthanize animals. That is the reality. A vets first and foremost duty is to the animals, and sometimes that means being the bearer of bad news. A vet not suggesting euthanasia for an animal that is clearly suffering, is like a doctor not telling you you have cancer because its sad. Lots of pet owners are going to be hesitant to come to that conclusion on their own, even if their pet is in dire need of help passing on. That is why vets exist.
I know 2 people who quit being vets because they couldn't handle having to euthanize animals. I had to BEG a vet to euthanize my 6oz fading Kitten who was SCREAMING, its heart barely beat, it was completely paralyzed, but the vet wanted to try try try even though the odds were not in favor. It was the hardest thing I've ever done, but I was the only one taking my pet into consideration. The vet wanted to aspirate, biopsy, blood draw, X-ray, ultrasound while the wee thing screamed and screamed. They wouldn't medicate because they didn't know what was wrong.
If my pet dies at home unassisted. If my pet dies on a cold, stainless steel table at a vet for anything other than accident... Then as far as I'm concerned I have failed as a pet parent. In home euthanasia is competitively priced, and provide your pet the benefit his own comfy bed, familiar smells, familiar people, and lots of extra treats. And they don't have to suffer at all.
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Post by lyles on Aug 2, 2015 17:54:39 GMT -5
How can an animal decide---I do not understand this at all. Naturally pass on is to me like giving a cancer patient no morphine. You do that to a person and they will be begging someone to take them out of their misery. An animal doesn't not have that luxury. Natural sounds good on paper, but when you r in enough pain, most people's ideals go out the window. I had to euthanize a couple of ferrets before Crystal. Both of those times I did it before they were in a lot of pain because I believed that to live and suffer is not really living at all. When Crystal was diagnosed with Adrenal I was going to euthanize her right then too, but then this forum showed me that ferrets with adrenal can live without suffering under the right treatments. I had financial troubles then and could only affort DES implants, Crystal was one of the few unfortunate that didn't take to DES well. Over a period of five months I watched her waste away, it was one of the worst experiences I faced. When it came to the point that her live was a living nightmare I decided to put her to sleep. I know now I should have done it sooner, but I didn't want to let go. The right choices are often the hardest ones to make. You can never care too much for your pets. Their life and happiness is solely dependent on you. The issue is knowing what is really caring. You also have to place your life and health first and foremost. If you have a chronic illness that is beginning to hinder the care of your pets, the right thing would be to start looking for new homes for them. As your health declines, so does your pets, and as you would suffer seeing your pets suffer, the same goes for vice versa. Easier said than done, yes, but it holds true.
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Post by RedSky on Aug 3, 2015 4:56:52 GMT -5
This is something I constantly worry about, especially with Mako. My vet has warned that he could take a turn for the worst and that (in her words) we will have to make a decision. This is how she puts forward euthanasia. But she and everyone else who has seen Mako so far have agreed that we should keep going. The rescue lady was a little concerned about him when he went to stay but I think after talking to me she was happier that it was in his best interest and not mine.
We are coming to the point now where he's getting sore and the risk of infection is so high so he's having an operation on Wednesday, if that doesn't help then as soon as he gets any sign of infection or showing any pain (we don't know if he has much if any feeling there) then we will call it quits. In the mean time he's happy, he's the only one of my three that laughs frequently. He plays with toys, eats like a pig and cuddles everyone. I'm also battling with a hamster with cancer, when I found out she had it I was blunt and said is there any point continuing but the vet assured me that she had been acting fine in herself and to just bring her back when we thought it was time. Unfortunately the mass seems to be growing quickly so she's having a few days of treats and extra love and I'm thinking of taking in her in on Wednesday when I collect Mako after his operation. That way she will still be eating, running on her wheel and begging for food, but she's not going to get any better and you can see some pain on her face at times and her appetite is dropping. She's not exactly full of expression anyway so I'm more worried with her at missing the point that she's had enough.
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Post by Sherry on Aug 3, 2015 10:09:55 GMT -5
As for "letting an animal decide"- every single one of my animals who I have had to help cross at the vet's have let me know when they have had enough. If you pay close attention you can see it in their eyes.
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Post by RedSky on Aug 3, 2015 10:22:08 GMT -5
I was saying similar to my dad. The big exception was my dog Cookie, he would never have given up, and mostly that was to stay with me. I couldn't allow him to be in that amount of pain and we tried everything and nothing worked well enough, long enough or with little enough side effects to convince me to keep him going.
He had cancer and it was affecting his ability to put weight on his front leg, and causing him constant pain. He could have lived much longer but most of the things he loved doing he could no longer do, his last few days were spent laying around with me, eating junk and being loved. And he will always be with me and I will always love him more than anything.
We did try everything, and he did go through a lot of treatments in his life, some made him better, some needed to be maintained and some didn't help, but the only thing I will ever feel guilty about is listening to a stupid trainer early on in his life, losing my temper with him or around him and not spending enough time with him, but then there is never enough time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 13:36:14 GMT -5
Basically what u are seeing in their eyes is higher degrees of pain, U pull the plug now or you pull it later.
It boils down to how much pain we can stand to see our pet suffer.
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Post by Heather on Aug 3, 2015 13:57:58 GMT -5
The thing to remember is that a gentle death is a kind death. No creature deserves to suffer at the hand of their people just to prolong life. I once asked...How do I tell when my ferret has had enough. Someone sent me a numbered list of things to look for. I used to have it pinned on my door to the ferret room. I seem to have lost it somewhere because I no longer have it. The first sentence read something to the life of I deserve the right to die with dignity and without pain. Either the second or the third sentence of the list read something like when I can no longer enjoy life as a ferret then I deserve your love and have the right to pass from this world. Having worked in hospice care I know what we do to our own kind. Having worked in rescue I know that some people consider prolonging life is ok, no matter the cost. Vets are trained to offer treatments to prolong life and some will continue to even if there is really no hope. Not all the responsibility lies with the vet though. I can think of two occasions where I almost fell into that trap. The first was Napoleon. Many who have known me for awhile know that Napoleon was that one "special" ferret. He was my heart ferret, he also was killed by his heart. I came home from having surgery and was feeling horrible (I don't do anaesthesia well). I crawled into bed to sleep it off. Napoleon joined me, but instead of biting my feet he laid beside me. In my groggy state I suddenly realized he was gasping for every breath. I rushed him into the vet. They admitted him immediately, putting him into an oxygen chamber. Xrays were done, his heart was hugely enlarged, fluid was building up at a dangerous rate in his body. He spent the night at the vet's, was given some meds and was breathing easier the next day. I took him home with his meds. That night he crawled into bed with me. I knew. He was so unhappy. It broke my heart that he didn't want to fight, to stay with me...but he didn't. He wanted to leave. I called the vet and drove in that night. I could have fought for him but he didn't want to. I suppose I could be called out and said there were so many methods used to fight for him. I know this. I fought for Boris. He wanted to fight and wasn't ready to die. Exactly the same thing claimed him that claimed Napoleon. Radagast was my second. It would have been so easy to keep doing the surgeries. My vet was having a hard time putting down a kit, she didn't want to put him down. Her surgeon told me very bluntly that I had spent worthless money on the first surgery. That I should be kind and euthanase. He told me that I would be back within a month to get a second and a third surgery and so on until there would be nothing left. He was wrong, it was 3 months...but I was back. Radagast chose his time. The first time he wasn't ready to die, but the second time he was ready. The right do die is a decision that we as ferrants have to be prepared to do and do it when our ferret is ready. Their choice isn't always when we want to let go though and we have to be aware and take that step back. Would you be willing to fight for life in this state. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 14:29:46 GMT -5
It is very black and white to me. It ended in death as vet said and whether vet was off 1, 2 mos or 3--he did not have to experience 2nd episode. This is what I am wanting to avoid with my ferrets. I hope i can do this. It is hard because you invest your time, your physical strength your money--and you get attached real bad.
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Post by RedSky on Aug 3, 2015 14:57:31 GMT -5
I think often it's giving them that chance to pull through. It's hard to say if an animal is going to recover, is going to live with their health or if they are going to get worse. I'm dealing with this day in and day out with Mako. Tonight I've had to call the emergency vet for advice as I couldn't get him to pass any urine at all. It seems his urethra is healing over at the tip of his penis. I eventually managed to get a few drops out and the vet has recommended that I keep trying as often as Mako can bare it and bring him in for surgery in the morning. Mako is still bright and bubbly and while is currently very uncomfortable with me expressing him usually he's not and doesn't seem to notice what I'm doing. I even put him in the bath to try to soften the skin up hoping I could cause it to pop so he could urinate, as I was trying to dry him off he was rolling around, laughing, play biting, pouncing and at one point looked like he was trying to play peek a boo. Yet I know of plenty of people who have called it quits when their ferret has had these issues. I don't know the details, I don't know if the ferret has become depressed or stopped eating or even had other issues going on too, but for Mako I couldn't put him down unless he was going to be in constant pain or wanted to give up. Some may think I'm wrong and keeping him alive for selfish reasons, but if they knew how much his health is affecting me, my life, health and even family then they would be hard pressed to argue that it wouldn't be easier for me to just have him PTS.
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Post by Klarissa on Aug 3, 2015 15:11:29 GMT -5
I read Mako's story on another thread, and I at first thought "poor ferret", but not really. It doesn't sound like he knows his back end isn't keeping up. You are an awesome ferrent, and he is lucky to have you. If he isn't in pain, if he is still up to ferret-y antics, eating and dooking, he isn't in pain. It just looks unfavorable as a hooman.
If a vet can't guarantee that my suffering animal will pull through, then I always choose to help them pass. I don't think making them endure stressful or painful procedures on a chance is fair.
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