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Post by Heather on Jul 21, 2015 14:42:59 GMT -5
Name: Lisa HF Forum Username: Skuske Please confirm that you are 18 years of age or older: Yes
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?
I've known for as long as I've known what ferrets are.
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I'm not sure how much, but I'd like to switch them to a frankenprey diet with occasional whole prey when available.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
Its healthier. The only reason I haven't done it before is because my life has not been stable enough to go through the transition.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It requires a commitment of several months at minimum. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switching your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as committed. The switch takes time and effort every single day. It can also be extremely frustrating at times. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc), or limited time due to work, then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing and realistically able to make the neccessary time commitment?
Yes. I'm very prepared.
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?
I have two ferrets. Layla is a year and 7 month Sprite who is very healthy. She is small even for a female, but she isn't bony anywhere. I've had her for a year and three months. Marty is about 7 years old and is male. He has Waardenburg Syndrome (deaf and blind), he sleeps constantly, he has issues getting to the litter box in time (he sleeps a few inches from it), he scratches himself to the point of injury, and has very bad teeth. His tummy is jiggly but his spine is bony. I've had him since last September.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup?
I currently feed them Kaytee's Ferret Forti-diet. It has 35% minimum crude protein, 18% minimum crude fat, 4% max crude fiber, 12% max moisture. They go through a 3 pound bag in about four to five weeks. They rarely get half a Ferretone treat, a small dribble of the supplement when they're being too fussy about having their claws clipped, half of an N-bone chew treat once a month, some pieces of freeze dried chicken liver once a week or so, and they are offered egg yolk once in a while, Marty doesn't touch it though.
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
No, I haven't.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
I have a cat that I will also be attempting to switch to raw. Marty does not like to be on the upper levels of their cage, and stays at the bottom.
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?
Daily
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program :wave3: . In a little while your mentor ( GFountain ), will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun (giggle). Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 23:26:09 GMT -5
I got Layla to eat some more, but Marty took one bite and refused any more. I don't think they ate enough so I put a small amount of kibble in there. Layla seems to just be marinating in the smell, she keeps going over to smell it and doesn't take a bite lol think she's full? They ate a total of 2oz/50g I believe. Really not sure though. Layla ate most of it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 8:10:50 GMT -5
I have another question, how do I convince Layla that she doesn't need to put chunks on me or my blankets to eat them? its a little gross lol HAH she just bit air like she was taking a chunk and ran away with her imaginary food (giving them their am meal)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 9:09:28 GMT -5
7/21/2015 - AM (I will post pictures and weight for PM meals)
Today's diet: They didn't touch the kibble at all overnight, but I'm leaving it in juuuust in case. They ate about an ounce of soup altogether before they got distracted by other things and didn't want to eat more than a bite at a time, and I only needed to remind them what it was with the spoon, after a few minutes I took it out and they kept eating! They occasionally walked away but came back for more. They ate about equal portions.
Layla: She ate about half an ounce, and she seems to have formed the habit of eating chunks only on my hands or my blankets. Gross! But she's responding to her name like she does when I give her egg yolk or dried liver, so I'm assuming she likes her new diet a lot!
Marty: He needed coaxing to eat more after he got distracted a few times, but he ate small chunks as well as the creamy bits (half an ounce worth), and tried to hide a couple bigger ones. He moved around a lot more than usual! Will I see a difference in his energy this fast or am I just having wishful thinking?
All in all: I've taken more kibble out of their cage, but I'm not ready to take it all away. I don't know how much they should be eating each meal, and I'm too skittish about Marty's health and weight to take the plunge. If it were just Layla I wouldn't hesitate.
My next update will be tonight!
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Post by gfountain on Jul 22, 2015 11:09:18 GMT -5
Hi! You got here ahead of me! My name is Gina and you can read my bio here if you're interested. I need to update it though. My business has doubled in size. Before we begin, I need a general overview of your feeding schedule - when they eat, how often, how much, where, etc. Are they caged or free-roam? It sounds like you're already giving them soup. Is that the balanced forum recipe? Do they eat it willingly or do they need convincing? How much soup do they each eat per day? How much kibble are they still eating? Have you started a food journal yet? How much do Marty and Layla weigh? If you can, post dangling pictures of them please. Hold them up under their arms and let them hang down. Take the picture from the front so I can see the belly. I understand that you're moving to frankenprey. What proteins do you have available? Have you found a source for organs and heart? Do you have scales for weighing food and fuzzies? I have another question, how do I convince Layla that she doesn't need to put chunks on me or my blankets to eat them?Haha, that's just one of those ferret things. One of mine likes to eat on my lap if I let him. She likes the security of knowing you are there. Just keep putting the food where you want her to eat it. She might benefit from a feeding den.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 20:23:07 GMT -5
Before I started switching them, I kept kibble in their cage, and I just let them eat as needed. Marty ate more often, Layla ate at dawn and dusk, but only about halfway through Marty's meal (which I thought was strange). They're caged, and I'm giving them soup with different sized chunks, my food processor isn't good enough to make it any thinner. I've been primarily trying to feed them at 6-8 am and 6-8 pm, taking breaks as needed. This morning they each ate half an ounce, and I'm feeding them now. I put too much water in the food to warm it up, so I reweighed it again. They nibbled on a tiny bit of kibble while I was gone/sleeping. The start of my food journal is here holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/18638/layla-martys-transition . I've also just learned I can't look away from the bowl when the spoon in there, Marty just tried to steal it like it was a chunk. Both of them have jumped up 50 grams! Layla is 650 and Marty is 850! I might be imagining it, but I don't feel his ribs as much. I have no idea where Layla would put the weight, she's so tiny. I'll take the dangling pictures once they're done eating and I make the journal entry. I primarily have chicken, beef and pork available, but I will hopefully be able to replace beef with something else, prices have gone up suddenly. I can easily find liver, but I've had to order freeze dried hearts from amazon, as the only way to get hearts at the store so far has been to buy mostly necks with them. I think the only way I'll find other organs is to find a butcher that will save them for me or to order them freeze-dried. I have a kitchen scale to weigh them, it isn't digital though so if they're squirming I can't be as accurate as I'd like. Well. Marty just fell asleep with his really cold, wet nose on my foot, so its time to feed Layla again!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 21:08:56 GMT -5
7/21/2015 - PM Layla: 650g Marty: 850g (in case you don't know, I'm getting a wound on his neck to heal, he scratches himself to the point of injury. I'm waiting for the fur to grow back before taking the bandage off) Today's diet: They ate a little bit of the kibble, probably a couple bites, there's only crumbs left and I'm not going to refill it. They ate about 75g of soup altogether. Both of them ate on their own, I only interfered to keep them from taking the chunks off the towel. Layla: She ate about 25g, and couldn't get to the bowl fast enough! I made the mistake of taking her with me when I took it to the house to put warm water in it. My shoulders are still showing scratches Marty: He ate about 50g, and couldn't find the bowl. Once I showed it to him, he started chowing away! He even tried to steal the spoon like it was a chunk. Chicken went eeeverywhere. Good thing I'm doing laundry today. He walked away and came back to eat more all on his own. He took huge chunks out of the bowl and only ate half of them before going back for more -.-* he fell asleep when he was done, using my foot as a pillow. All in all: After tonight, they won't have access to kibble, and once I can lower the food bowls I'll be leaving their food in the cage for them to eat as they want for an hour at a time. I have questions: Should I cut up another thigh, heart, and liver to add in the soup just as chunks? Or should I make another batch of chunky soup first? How much should they be eating per mealtime? My next update will be tomorrow morning!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 8:00:52 GMT -5
7/23/2015 - AM
(I will post pictures and weight for PM meals)
Today's diet: More chunky soup. They ate about 100g altogether.
Layla: She ate about 50g. She loves her new food, and is getting the hang of chewing chunks of fat. Layla's also trying to be dominant towards Marty more, I think because his energy levels are up, and she wants to remind him of his place (he could sit on her and no one would be able to find her, but okay).
Marty: He ate about 50g as well. He's definitely hyper today. I couldn't hold him still long enough to check how his neck fur and chest wound (he broke open the scab on his chest sometime last night) is coming along! And instead of going straight to sleep, he started walking around and trying to dig, so I put him in Layla's digbox (now both of theirs I suppose) and he's trying to fit in her tiny crinkle tube. He's never been this active unless he's scared, and I kind of want to cry out of happiness. He's still taking out big chunks and only eating half of them before going back for more.
All in all: They're doing so well! They're happier and Marty's a lot more active. I would really like to see how they react to having cut up chicken!
My next update will be tonight!
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Post by gfountain on Jul 23, 2015 16:27:56 GMT -5
Their weights look good. When they're dangling like that, they should look like a tube, straight up and down. Rounded means overweight; a waistline means underweight. They look just about right.
I have to convert to ounces because I'm not familiar enough with grams. 50 grams is approximately 1.7 ounces. A male ferret generally eats 2-4 ounces per day; a female eats 1-3. If they each ate 1.7 ounces at a single meal, they most likely don't need the kibble any more. Weigh the kibble in the morning when you give it to them and then weigh it again the next morning and let's see exactly how much kibble they are eating in a 24 hour period.
They're eating the soup fine, so let's start adding some slivers to it. The easiest way I've found to make slivers is to use a vegetable peeler on a chunk of frozen meat. Once slivered, the meat thaws in less than 5 minutes so you can do only what you need for one meal. Make some chicken slivers and cut them lengthwise. Think spaghetti noodles. Add several to their next meal and make sure that they each eat some. I don't think Layla will balk, but you may need to help Marty get started. Hold him on your lap and gently scruff him (if you can with his wounds). You don't need to hold his weight, just gently pinch his neck skin until he opens his mouth. Put a sliver between his back teeth on the side of his mouth. If you put it in the front of his mouth, he can just spit it right out, but if it's at the back of his mouth he'll have to work it around a little before he can spit it. Don't stress him. If he only eats one, that's a start.
Raw meat is going to give them both more energy, but you'll see a bigger change in Marty than in Layla since he's older and hasn't been well. One of the reasons is that they're getting more hydration. Kibble keeps them on the verge of dehydration and if you've ever been dehydrated, you know that everything takes more effort without proper hydration.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 17:56:21 GMT -5
I thought I mentioned in one of the updates- I already took their kibble out! And I'll be sure to switch to ounces so its easier! I'm equally ok with both. I'll look for a vegetable peeler but I'm not sure if I'll find one. I'll try slicing some frozen chicken really thin.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2015 20:30:45 GMT -5
7/23/2015 - PM Layla: 1lb 6oz Marty: 1lb 14oz Today's diet: I was able to cut the chicken into small strips, but could not find anything to make it thinner. Layla: She ate about 1.5oz, and was very picky after the first few minutes (only licking pieces), I had to hand feed her to get her to eat more. Marty: He ate about 2oz., and was the first to eat a strip on his own! He's still only eating half of one before going back for more though... I think he just has fun making me clean up after him. Maybe when I put their food in the cage Layla will eat his leftovers... All in all: Poops are a very light brown/slightly dark tan now, I'll keep them on soupie with chicken "strips" for now. Marty's trying to nap and Layla is under the blanket he's on, waking him up and confusing him. Poor man. My next update will be tomorrow morning!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 8:40:13 GMT -5
7/23/2015 - AM
(I will post pictures and weight for PM meals)
Today's diet: Chicken slices with a small amount of soup.
Layla: She ate about 1oz. She kept walking away but licking the spoon on the towel, but ate well enough. She just wanted to be spoon fed I guess.
Marty: He ate about 1oz as well. Towards the end he started taking slices out and just leaving them in the box I gave them, not even eating half! When I started taking their food away, he tried to take one last slice, put it down, and then tried to take another! What a brat!
All in all: I'm so happy they're doing this well this fast. I was expecting to fight with them to even try it!
My next update will be tonight!
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Post by gfountain on Jul 24, 2015 13:56:55 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I must have missed the kibble already being removed.
Is there a reason that you are taking their food away? They need to have access to their food all the time. Marty wants to save his pieces for later. Leave it with them in the cage and he may go back for more. One of mine only eats a few bites when I feed them, but he takes his share to 'his' corner of the cage and goes back for it later.
It sounds like Layla isn't too sure about the sliced chicken. Keep the slices the same size for a couple of meals and let her get used to the idea of having to chew her food instead of just licking it up, but decrease the amount of soup at each meal. Keep a close eye on their poops. As the soup decreases, so does the amount of egg shell they're getting. Without that egg shell, it's possible that their poops could get messy until we get to bone meals. Let me know if they start getting sloppy.
They're doing great and so are you! With Marty's age, I expected him to fight the change a little more than he is. How is his neck doing?
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Post by gfountain on Jul 24, 2015 13:57:47 GMT -5
Oh, and you don't have to post pictures and weights every day. Once a week is often enough unless you're worried about them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 20:02:15 GMT -5
I was advised before to take their food away when they're eating any amount of soup on their own, and at this point they're already eating chunks on their own. I'll put some back in the cage if I can't drill the holes for their new food dishes today. And Layla loves the slices of chicken today... I think she just wanted me to feed her. I added a small amount of bone meal to the slices so their poops don't get too runny. Marty already has continence issues. They're eating right now, so their journal update will be soon!
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