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Post by crazylady on May 14, 2011 19:10:55 GMT -5
Awww he is cute I second what sherry has said it sounds to me like you have one baby who misses mum and hates the world for that fact ! I deal with biters very much the same way as sherry does with kits ( I have a couple of litters this season who in a few weeks time will go through this very process oh my poor hands lol ) I simply bend a finger tight and as soon as they try to nip I push it to the back of the mouth they find they cannot get a good grip and spit it out at the same time I am doing this I shout no on a loud voice if they allow me to pick them out without doing the latch on thing I talk soft baby talk to them and reward them with a little oil on the palm of my hand or a small piece of meat ( chew the meat baby its better than my fingers lol ) they soon learn bite nothing be good gets you nice things to eat and to kits of that age food is the best thing on the planet lol slowly build up the time you hold your baby begin with short periods of say one - two mins do this as many times a day as you can and build up the length of time slowly I know its hard but try not to show fear once they smell fear your doomed lol it sounds crazy but they do understand the tone of your voice I have noticed with a few of my oldsters if I have been shouting at youngsters the old guys put the head down as if to say oh oh mums angry keep out of her way lol all it takes is time but you will get there even if you have to resort to covering your hands in bitter apple or lemon juice to teach her hands are not for biting you will succeed good luck take care bye for now Bev aka crazy lady
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Post by kristin on May 14, 2011 20:20:50 GMT -5
Thanks for the recommendations! I went in the ferret room to feed them dinner and didn't give the little one the opportunity to bite my feet. I put fish oil on my palm and offered it to him to lick off, praised him the whole time, and took my hand away before he had a chance to think about biting. Did that several times, then gave him the plate of food. He loves the raw, especially the meaty pieces and bones (big surprise!!!!) It really helps me to know that he's afraid -- after thinking about what everyone has said it made me feel much more empathetic toward him -- just imagining how overwhelming the world must seem. I never thought about it from his point of view before. Silly human. I just had it in my head that ferrets were either biters or not, and when I handled him at the pet shop he didn't bite. Will Cricket also help him develop bite inhibition? She seems to be giving him the what-for earlier when they were playing -- she pinned him down until he started crying and then stalked off -- I could almost hear her grumbling about the little pest. I figured she would teach him not to bite so hard at play. But I guess human hands are different beasts. He still doesn't have a name and my BF is calling him Nibbles McGee -- I'm afraid he'll get stuck with a name like Minion -- It's a great name but not a big vote of confidence for future behavior. Maybe I'll call him CreamPuff.
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Post by Heather on May 14, 2011 20:31:58 GMT -5
He is adorable...sometimes one has to step back and look at a problem from a different point of view. He's a baby, he's not trying to be mean, he's scared and reacting in a very ferret way... You'll see, you'll convince him that everything is fine and you're not going to hurt him, but in his short little life, no one has ever cut him a break. He's known such intense pain and fear he just wants to give a little of that back so that it doesn't happen any more. Cricket will help....she will. See most of our little guys should really still be with litter mates who will scream at them and ignore them if they bite too hard. Cricket is now going to fill that part. It doesn't work 100% but it helps alot. When he's not so scared...he will tell you his name ciao
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Post by crazylady on May 14, 2011 20:43:30 GMT -5
I agree with heather cricket will help she will put him in his place and teach him where he stands in the order of play in your home ( kits begin at the bottom of the ladder and learn to behave or else lol ) once he learns to trust you you will see a whole different ferret emerge its all about trust and respect and once they give it they give it for life as for names well mine end up with some of the craziest names ever they never end up with the one they started with because the character changes lol good luck with your baby take care bye for now Bev aka crazy lady
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 22:28:21 GMT -5
I feel your painful hands, legs, toes....everything! I have a really bad biter...two actually.. Sophie Ann and Velma were severly neglected and abused and they've been with us for a year next month... Velma has come around and hasn't bitten in awhile..I have learned her body language and while she gets along with everyone she prefers to do her own thing and to be left alone...she will never be a cuddler or a ferret that I could trust someone else to handle... Now... Sophie Ann...sweet innocent Sophie Ann (named for one of the vampires on True Blood)...she is like your baby she will strike and strike hard, for no apparent good reason. There were times when she'd try to bite through the bars of her cage when someone passed by, they could be no where near the cage and she would lunge and bite at the bars. It was almost a week before I actually even tried to handle her aside from cage cleaning, food time, and their free time out. (when it was play time I would still be in the room but out of reach instead of being on the floor with everyone, since then she has learned to levitate and can get up anywhere she wants too). I really thought that I had made a huge mistake in bringing Sophie Ann and Velma here they would attack for no reason, no visible outside triggers, just "hey there's flesh lets bite" it was hard and even now my husband feels like I should re-home them but they would never survive and would end up being abused, negleted or put down because of their behavior. This is their furever home, no matter what DH says! I started off offering ferretone on my hand through the cage bars, so they would associate hands as good not bad. I'd do this multiple times a day no set time...if I went to or through the room (have to pass through it to get to the laundry room) so some days they'd get "treated" more than others but every time they saw me, and DH was doing this too, they'd get a sm dollop of tone. Then I'd progress, slowly, small baby steps...put my hand in the cage w/tone on it, if they bit they went into time out, if they didn't they got to enjoy their treat, did this for a few weeks, then I'd pick them up for a few seconds with some tone on my hand to focus on, then I progressed from 3 sec to 5 then to 10 and so on. If they bit the tone went away and they were in the catcarrier I use for time out. It's been a long process and while Velma doesn't really bite anymore she will if she is held for too long, but that's just her personallity, she'd much rather be snuffling around and finding a warmspot to sleep in then be held and I'm ok with that. Sophie Ann she's still a work in progress and there have been more than a few times I'd come on here in tears thinking that I wasn't doing the right thing by keeping her here that there might be somewhere better for her, but everyone here is so awesome! They've been so wonderfully helpful with getting the girls to where they are now... at this point I can take Sophie Ann out of the cage and hold her and somedays even walk around the house for a few min. with out her trying to latch onto me. others, not so much..the progress has been slow and at times difficult but it's well worth it so please don't get discouraged...the sucky thing about Sophie Ann being a hardcore biter, she has the silkiest fur out of all my crew and I just want to nuzzler her belly but that isn't going to happen anytime soon! oh btw the first pic of the new baby really does make her look evil so be careful what you do name her because they WILL live up to thier names!
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 22:55:21 GMT -5
Call him Ashton, after my favourite Dominican cigars He'll deserve one after all of this!
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Post by Sherry on May 15, 2011 0:35:53 GMT -5
Ashton is actually a really good name for him ;D I like it!
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2011 3:03:41 GMT -5
I am having sort of the same problem with my 9 wk fixed boy. the biggest difference is that he does it when I take out old food and put the new food in. he was under weight when I got him and still is since I have only had him a couple of days. (i am not worried at him being nippy out of the cage. yes it is a pretty hard nip but not hard enough to break skin. just kit nips). is this something that will stop once I get his weight up or do I need to help him in some weigh? he has not realized that ferret tone is yummy yet.
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Post by Heather on May 15, 2011 8:05:45 GMT -5
Hey, uz stealing hiz treasures....itz hiz noms. No, seriously...you're stealing his food, he would do this with his siblings why not you 9 weeks, he's just a baby baby. Give him the bowl of fresh stuff first, then remove the old bowl. Something for something. Of course being a ferret the old stuff probably tastes better ;D ciao
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Post by kristin on May 16, 2011 12:04:41 GMT -5
Thanks to everyone for the input and advice and support - I really appreciate it!! And Ashton does, too. Good news for Sat and Sun. I got the Ferretone and went into the ferret room and sat so that no skin was out. (covered my legs in a blanket with shoes on). The three were playing and I put the oil on my palm and offered it to the little vampire. He licked it off and I removed my hand before he had a chance to bite. I repeated this 5 or 6 times (only a tiny drop of oil each time so he doesn't get EFA overload!) So no bites on Saturday. Luckily, he got himself back into the FN cage and into his hammock for sleepy time so I closed up the cage for the night. Sunday I did the same thing. I talked to him a lot -- he seems to respond to my voice. When my vet was taking my cat's blood pressure and I talked to her, her pressure went down visibly. So I've been talking to the ferrets a lot in a soothing voice. As I offered him the oil on my palm again, I stroked his little head with one finger - around the ears and eyes, while talking to him. Probably for 3 seconds or so. Repeated this about 6 times. He went into the cage for sleep, and when I came back to wake them up, I just talked to him through the bars. He doesn't bite at the bars and didn't lunge at me or anything -- just all yawny and drowsy. Later after playtime I had to put him into the cage. I put some oil on my hand again and let him lick it as I lifted him gently toward the cage. Praised him enormously. No bites! I feel good going this route, super slow and just lots of praise. Trying to establish a positive baseline before needing timeouts, etc. Also he was playing with Cricket yesterday and she was showing him some serious smack-down. I watched her play for awhile -- she'd drag him around and then if he bit her too hard, she knocked him down and walked away. He'd chase after her and they'd play again. So I can see how she's drawing lines for him. Anyway I'm so happy to be making slow progress. This is a huge learning experience and I thank you all for sharing your wisdom so generously!
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Post by Sherry on May 16, 2011 12:11:36 GMT -5
Awww! That is fantastic It really sounds like you are making some real progress with him. I remember reading a study that found cats, and especially kittens, responded best to being talked to in a "baby" voice. I've also found ferrets do as well.
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Post by Heather on May 16, 2011 12:53:40 GMT -5
That is so fantastic. That kind of progress is wonderful. ciao
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2011 13:11:47 GMT -5
Ashton? Yay Ashton! And "Hurrahs" for you, too, Kristin. "We" can talk as much as we want, but it's you who has to implement and adjust and take the bad with the good, and what you're doing... well, I think you deserve all the kudos you get for showing such patience and love for the little fuzzbutt, bless ya both!
Ashton!?! I love it!
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Post by kristin on May 16, 2011 13:53:15 GMT -5
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Post by kristin on May 16, 2011 19:41:41 GMT -5
Oy vey. The ferrets were out and Marlee knocked over the litterbox so I got out the Shop-Vac. Turned it on and guess who didn't even blink? My little resident Vampire ran toward the thing, followed by Marlee, while Cricket dove for cover. A few other home-made tests later and it appears that he is also totally stone deaf. Does this change how I should be handling his biting at all? Also, a was reading a lot of articles today on behavior, especially from Bob Church, and all of them kept asking, "What were you doing when the ferret bit you?" And I honestly have to say - NOTHING! Over and over, he seeks me out to bite me. I am just sitting in the chair reading a book in the ferret room, all of them playing, and he'll come climb into my lap to bite my hand. Even if I'm not doing time-outs or anything. I manage to avoid the bite using the oil and distraction, but he pursues both me and my BF in order to bite us. So... is the "protocol" still the same? Build trust, let him see I'm not going to hurt him, hands are good things, etc.? It's not like he bites me because I'm picking him up. He bites because he wants to bite. I have to fend him off with a towel if I want to spend any time in the room. I just did 7 time outs in a row until he bit me so badly that I had to leave the room to bandage my hand and stop the bleeding. I'm feeling very discouraged. And a little angry. And my hands hurt.
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