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Post by kristin on May 14, 2011 12:43:39 GMT -5
I brought home this adorable little guy so Cricket would have a playmate, since Marlee is super sweet but uninterested in interacting with others. He's about 9 or 10 weeks, silver boy. Very, very pretty. And he BITES. Not just nippy, but clamp, lock and shake, drawing LOTS of blood. I've never had a biter before. Most of my ferrets were nippy as kits but a sharp "no" and sometimes a light scruffing and they knocked it off. Learned very quickly that nipping meant the end of playtime. This little guy seems different. He'll nip once or twice first, then take a big bite. If I try to get him dislodged from my hand, he hangs on tighter. If I scruff him, he bites harder. I'm trying to do "time outs" but he's biting so hard I can't always get him safely to the cage. Seriously - there's blood all over the place, including on him. I don't know what to do about this. I'm afraid to even take him out of the cage. I've read through many of the posts on "nip training" but I feel like I'm dealing with something else here. He's so young - I can't imagine this is fear biting or from being mishandled. He's sweet when I wake him up and cuddle him -- he gives kisses and cuddles for a few seconds. Also, despite his coloring, he can hear. I actually made sure of that before bringing him home. Any suggestions before I need a blood transfusion?
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Post by xclairex on May 14, 2011 12:56:33 GMT -5
hey, I'm going to keep an eye on your post replies because i have a similar (not as bad) situation with my silver gill. You can handle her for a few minutes until she decides she has had enough and wants to be put down, she turns and bites really hard- definitely not just a nip. She used to do the shaking thing too but seems to have stopped doing this since I started handing her a lot more.
I'm still quite nervous when i have her out of the cage, especially when bare feet are involved (OUCH!) I have to wear protective footwear around her haha! she has a toe obsession!!
I hope you get some good advice.
xx
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Post by xclairex on May 14, 2011 13:01:59 GMT -5
I just had a thought... is there a chance your furkid could be deaf? someone told me on the old forum that her biting may be because she's deaf, especially with her been a silver... well i later found out she definitely was (i could hoover around the cage and she was the only one that didn't wake up etc).
I wonder if this is the underlying problem for your furkid too?
x
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Post by kristin on May 14, 2011 13:12:56 GMT -5
He's definitely not deaf. I visited them when they were all asleep and whistled into the cage and he was the first one to wake up. Plus he responds normally to my voice and everything around him. This little guy also has a foot fetish! I'm wearing three pairs of socks to protect my toes. It took him about an hour to figure out he needed to bit *above* the sock line so now he shoots straight for the calf.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 13:14:19 GMT -5
Your fuzzy looks like a blaze (the patch on the top of the head) and that could be indicative of Wartenburg's (sp?) syndrome. They are special, and need special attention and handling. Use olive oil, ferretone, treats to show that hands -- particularly yours' -- are good things; a time out cage with nothing in it is vital, and must be used consistently.
It's going to take time, and a lot of patience, but all of my former biters, and Willow was the most extreme, are also my dearest heart ferrets now...
Very best of luck, and keep heart!
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Post by kristin on May 14, 2011 13:53:54 GMT -5
I'm trying to work with the time out cage. A few minutes ago I let him out and he ran across the room to where I was sitting, ran up my leg and bit my hand and wouldn't let go -- it took me a full minute to get his jaws open to release my hand.
I don't know how to even start working with him safely.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 14:05:34 GMT -5
Sounds like a revenge biter, and one who is looking for dominance; this is usually, but not always, indicative of "mishandling" when younger.
I think a place to start is to give as few opportunities for biting as possible. Wear shoes in the house, and not a number of socks; stand when you see him racing at you so as to present a more dominant target, and that way you also have the tactical advantage. Whenever he does anything good, handle him, but safely for yourself and him.
Handle him when he's asleep and vulnerable, and he'll slowly understand that he's not in danger. Hand feed slivers of meat when he's good, or hungry, but put your scent on it by warming the meat between your fingers.
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Post by kristin on May 14, 2011 14:29:45 GMT -5
I'll give it a try. Also get some ferretone today. Since he's just a kit -- 9 weeks or so -- he hasn't had much opportunity for mis-handling. He was only at the pet shop a couple of days.
I don't think he's a fear biter because he's not showing any signs of fear. What exactly is a revenge biter? I mean, I understand the implication, but how does a ferret decide he wants revenge? From poor handling?
I feel like if I understand *why* he's biting, I'll be much better able to decide the best way of handling him. I don't want to make it worse, and it seems that scruffing just ticks him off.
Thanks for the advice - I really appreciate it!
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 14:35:36 GMT -5
revenge biting, is when you give a time out, and then you let him out, he'll come at you to get a chunk out of you because you locked him up.
i would do what doubloon suggested.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2011 16:01:13 GMT -5
A fear biter will not necessarily show fear (trembling, shying, etc.) but may strike first in anticipation of that which may cause fear. "Mishandling" may be everything from inappropriate discipline at the pet store and/or breeding facility, to premature removal from their family unit (dame & siblings). Ferrets are, on a per pound basis, the most intelligent and sensitive animals that I've ever come across: their emotions get visibly hurt, each has their own personality, their problem solving skills are exemplary, and they have incredible focus, for good and for ill... You're getting the bad part of it at the moment. He's not deaf, so maybe try to break his focus on you: use a squeek toy when he's charging you, and if he breaks the charge in favour of the toy, give him a treat and handle him in that interlude. This is going to have to be an evolving strategy that you use, but you'll get it in the end, and have a happy, loving fuzz for it
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Post by shilohismygirl on May 14, 2011 16:56:57 GMT -5
If I were you, I would really consider that being ripped away from mummy too early and neutered before he understands what is happening at all in his life can be really scary. That's mishandling and all pet store ferrets go through it, especially Marshall's. Some react differently to it, and some seem to have no issues at all. Like us, they have complex emotional differences. Cliff is pretty much an expret in this area. Also, understand that this could be a very long process, with little result for a time but once he gets the idea, the results will be fantastic. I hope this is a speedier progress because he is a kit, but be resigned to doing whatever it takes and taking many more bites before it gets better. Definitely stick to time outs every single time he bites, and take the suggestions from Cliff. Good luck! He certainly does look sweet
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Post by Sherry on May 14, 2011 17:05:20 GMT -5
It does sound like you've got yourself a little revenge biter there! As hard as it's going to be, your best best is going to be both ignoring, and/or time outs. It might be an idea to teach him hands are good things, as well. You can use 'tone for this, as well as meat slivers. Put the treat in your open palm, scoop him up quickly, and essentially shove his face into it(gently!). The thing with these little ones is consistency. All the time. It has to be the same punishment ever single time for the misdeed. Example, he bites, he goes in the time out. Over and over and over, until he no longer bites when he comes out. You will, unfortunately, learn his body language for biting. When you can see he's going to bite, gently shove him away, preferably with something not exposed. Over and over. For this, there is no punishment, because he hasn't actually latched on yet. This is the ignore aspect. Actually get up and walk away if you have to. One other thing that's going to be VERY hard to do. Do NOT pull away when he bites. Push in gently. He should(hopefully) spit you out again, and then you can put him in the time out carrier. There is also a pressure point at the back on either side of the jaws that will trigger them to release. But you have to be careful with this one, as you can cause damage if you press too hard in a panic. I've also run water over their back end to shock them into letting go(it was a last ditch effort to get detached from the teeth) I'll be honest- the only way we could get Willow in the carrier was holding her by the scruff, with a hand under her bottom both for support, and to prevent her from twisting too much. She was a super bad fear biter. One person would open the time out, the other would put her in. Don't leave him for more than a couple of minutes, then open the carrier door to let him back out- don't reach in and pull him out(as I found out ;D ). When he's NOT biting, treat him with the tone, the treats, or whatever else he likes. As time goes on, and you can hold him longer, delay giving the treat by a few seconds.
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Post by kristin on May 14, 2011 17:39:48 GMT -5
Alright, you guys. I'm going to take your word for it that this will get better. Which is a huge leap of faith for me! But you haven't steered me wrong yet. I think both of you who mentioned being taken away from his mom early are very accurate -- I know in general pet store kits are taken away too early, but this little guy was trying to nurse on Cricket. And he curled up in his blankie and was sucking on it. Another thought occured to me -- I considered it a plus that he hadn't been at the store that long, but in actuality that means he's had nothing but change and careless handling (at best) since he left the nest. So yes -- that would certainly scare the dickens out of me!! I'm going to give him a few days to settle down and get used to the routine, maybe not handle him too much for a couple of days. Then start with the ferretone and the time-outs and be super-consistent about it. I'm going to minimize my opportunity to get bit, too, so less opportunity to form the habit. I will probably need encouragement and support through this process. Because I honestly thought I was avoiding the whole "special needs" thing by getting baby Marshall's ferrets. And here I am -- two of the three are special cases. Thanks so much for the feedback and suggestions. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out with this! And yes, he *is* adorable. Ridiculously adorable. When he's asleep.
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Post by kristin on May 14, 2011 17:48:01 GMT -5
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Post by Heather on May 14, 2011 18:57:27 GMT -5
I've been out all day but just read this...this is Minion to a "T". Scared, too young to be away from momma (though he's plenty old enough now). Disciplined at the pet store by using the ferret rap the nose routine and no he was only there for about 2 weeks. He's hugely aggressive, enormously strong (he's a big boy, not huge...just big) He's bitten me twice to the bone, and made my hands so sore that picking him up was immensely painful. A couple of things....when you're in the "jaws of death" as hard as it is don't pull away, it makes them clamp down harder. There are a couple of mindsets on this...both instinct....one, he's afraid your going to hit him (I know you won't but he doesn't know this) or his mindset goes to prey and if it wiggles to get out of your mouth then you hold on tighter. He's just a baby and doesn't know any better. If you are in a "death grip" push in before he decides to set his bite (shake you). It's not nice to him but you will gag him and he will spit you out, be fast though.....he will bite again. If you grab just behind his shoulders in a harness grip he can't bite you or at least not badly. I find that now that Minion's fatter he can't reach me . The message from Cliff and the rest is good. He is a revenge biter, the harsher the discipline the further behind you get. Be consistent. The cage works the best. Minion is getting a lot better. He still bites, sometimes just as hard, but I've felt his teeth a few times and now it's in play. He's not being aggressive. He gets angry at me, sometimes he gets scared and he will still bite hard. It's a long journey, but he will now sleep in my arms, he actually gave me a kiss today...before he bit me ...guess he was just tasting but it's progress We're here, and yes we feel your frustration...really ciao
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