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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 8:23:46 GMT -5
My ultimate goal would be to feed whole prey if I could get it and if he would eat it. He is doing well with the mice but now refuses the baby chick as a snack (just mauls it and drags it around). As for Frankenprey, he just doesn't like the pieces of meat like a chicken wing or leg. He drags it around and it ends up in strange places like his bed, etc. Naturally, I am not fond of raw meat being dragged around as Teddy is free to roam and has no cage. Refuses to use his eating den also. Likes a particular corner in the bathroom. So when the grinds are in a bowl, he eats it and doesn't drag it anywhere. I have a small travel cage I put him in to eat his mice. If I give him a chicken wing in this small cage, he just fights to get out. He doesn't look overweight. He has really big paws. I weighed him yesterday morning prior to breakfast and he weighed 4 pounds 10 1/2 ounces. He will be five months old August 27th. I brush his teeth with oxyfresh gel on my fingers everyday. I have trouble using the brush as he latches on to it and won't let go. He is a powerhouse of energy and I run and play with him a lot (so does my husband). So I think for now I will stick with the grinds as I have the correct amounts worked out and keep giving him the mice. He ate the mice yesterday and left only the entrails. But I do have to hold off any other food for a while to get him to eat them. Thanks for all the feedback.
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Post by FireAngel on Aug 13, 2015 10:57:07 GMT -5
You are doing great. I know the stashing food for free roamers can be a challenge for us ferrents and ferrets in general do not seem to want to eat everything we give them when we give it to them. The fact you are home and can put small amounts of food out for him frequently I'm sure helps with that though. Have you tried feeding him in that particular corner in the bathroom? If he seems to like it there maybe this would help to keep things contained. Mine are technically not free roam but they do have the run of the bathroom when I'm home (it's a decent sized bathroom and since it's linoleum easy to keep clean, each one of them seems to have a favorite eating spot. His weight is great! I would love to see some new pictures!
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Post by FireAngel on Aug 13, 2015 13:17:35 GMT -5
I talked it over with katt and I'd like to give you a little quiz and some homework and get you graduated soon! Pop Quiz (not to be confused with the "final exam") 1.) What are some good emergency taurine sources if you run out of heart? 2.) How can you tell if your ferret is getting too much or too little bone? 3.) Do Chicken and CGH count as different types of protein? 4.) What is a healthy diet item that can be used for hairballs, and how often should you give it? 5.) How long does each type of meat generally stay good: raw soup, ground meat, med-large chunks, bone-in meats, whole prey? 6.) What are the recommended percentages of heart, liver and other organ? Now for the homework part; since you are not actually on your goal menu yet but seem to have a good understanding so far and we do not want to hold you back, we want to make sure you can balance a menu on your own when the time comes (of course we will always be here to ask if you need to and this thread will always be here for you to look back on and refer to also), so I would like to see a mock frankenprey with grinds menu and mock frankenprey with whole prey menu. Good luck!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 15:49:51 GMT -5
Pop Quiz (not to be confused with the "final exam") 1.) What are some good emergency taurine sources if you run out of heart? Taurine powder 500 mg per day.
2.) How can you tell if your ferret is getting too much or too little bone? Examine stools: If loose, give more bone. If dry, give less bone.
3.) Do Chicken and CGH count as different types of protein? No4.) What is a healthy diet item that can be used for hairballs, and how often should you give it? Raw egg; either the yolk only or the white and yolk mixed together. But never the white alone. I give it once a week as it causes a very loose stool. Can be fed 2-3 times per week (shedding season)
5.) How long does each type of meat generally stay good: raw soup, ground meat, med-large chunks, bone-in meats, whole prey? soup- 4-6 hours grinds- 8-12 hours chunks- 8-12 hours bone-in meats - 8-12 hours whole prey - up to 48 hours depending on size
6.) What are the recommended percentages of heart, liver and other organ? heart- 10% liver- 5% kidney- 5%
Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/18643/marcias-switching-thread-fireangel-hurricanekatt?page=7#ixzz3ijJ5MXSM
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 16:10:24 GMT -5
MONDAY: 5 oz. bone-in meat 3 oz. no bone meat 1 oz. heart .5 oz. liver .5 oz. kidney TUESDAY: 6 oz. bone-in meat 2 oz. no bone meat 1.5 oz. heart .5 oz. kidney WEDNESDAY: 6 oz. bone-in meat 2 oz. no bone meat 1 oz. heart .5 oz. liver .5 oz. kidney THURSDAY: 6 oz. bone-in meat 2 oz. no bone meat 1 oz. heart .5 oz. liver .5 oz. kidney FRIDAY: 6 oz. bone-in meat 2 oz. no bone meat 1 oz. heart .5 oz. liver .5 oz. kidney SATURDAY: 5 oz. bone-in meat 3 oz. no bone meat 1 oz. heart .5 oz. liver .5 oz. kidney SUNDAY: 6 oz. bone-in meat 2 oz. no bone meat 1 oz. heart .5 oz. liver .5 oz. kidney
The bone-in meats: quail frames ground chicken frames ground duck meat and bone ground lamb meat and bone ground
The no bone meats: turkey lamb beef
The liver: turkey
The heart: turkey
The kidney: pork
Currently, I measure out the grinds in ice cube trays, freeze, pop-out, place in zip lock bags, store in freezer. I make up his diet a week at a time in separate bags. Each 24 hour period, I thaw one bag, mix all the meats together, top with half a squirt of salmon oil and 1.5 tsp. ferret tone. Mix it all together. Divide into four small bowls and store in refrig. and feed over the course of the next 24 hours. I never throw anything away. Now that I have worked in mice, he may not eat one of the bowls so it rolls over to the next day.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 16:25:47 GMT -5
For the Frankenprey and whole prey diet:
Monday AM: Half Heart - 1/4 Liver - 1/4 Other Organ Monday PM: rat and mice whole prey
Tuesday AM: chicken breast ground Tuesday PM: quail whole prey
Wednesday AM: ground turkey no bone Wednesday PM: rat and mice whole prey
Thursday AM: guinea pig whole prey Thursday PM: Half Liver - Half Other Organ
Friday AM: quail whole prey Friday PM: ground lamb no bone
Saturday AM: rat and mice whole prey Saturday PM: guinea pig whole prey
Sunday AM: chicken breast ground Sunday PM: quail whole prey
One whole chicken egg once per week. half a squirt of salmon oil daily. 1.5 tsp. Ferretone daily.
AND LOTS AND LOTS OF LOVE!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 16:26:36 GMT -5
Do either know anything about the Darwin Foods for felines?
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Post by FireAngel on Aug 13, 2015 22:04:22 GMT -5
Pop Quiz (not to be confused with the "final exam") 1.) What are some good emergency taurine sources if you run out of heart? Taurine powder 500 mg per day. Can Taurine powder be used for long periods of time? What are some other things that are high in taurine content that ferrets can eat?2.) How can you tell if your ferret is getting too much or too little bone? Examine stools: If loose, give more bone. If dry, give less bone. You got it!3.) Do Chicken and CGH count as different types of protein? No Correct although many ferrets with sensitivities to Chicken can still eat CGH
4.) What is a healthy diet item that can be used for hairballs, and how often should you give it? Raw egg; either the yolk only or the white and yolk mixed together. But never the white alone. I give it once a week as it causes a very loose stool. Can be fed 2-3 times per week (shedding season) Yes!5.) How long does each type of meat generally stay good: raw soup, ground meat, med-large chunks, bone-in meats, whole prey? soup- 4-6 hours grinds- 8-12 hours chunks- 8-12 hours bone-in meats - 8-12 hours whole prey - up to 48 hours depending on size Depending on freshness of meat put out and room temperature you are right! Always trust your nose also.6.) What are the recommended percentages of heart, liver and other organ? heart- 10% liver- 5% kidney- 5% I knew you would have this one! :heehee:I will review and do each post separate to avoid one long rambling post
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Post by FireAngel on Aug 13, 2015 22:29:54 GMT -5
MONDAY: 5 oz. bone-in meat 3 oz. no bone meat 1 oz. heart .5 oz. liver .5 oz. kidney TUESDAY: 6 oz. bone-in meat 2 oz. no bone meat 1.5 oz. heart .5 oz. kidney WEDNESDAY: 6 oz. bone-in meat 2 oz. no bone meat 1 oz. heart .5 oz. liver .5 oz. kidney THURSDAY: 6 oz. bone-in meat 2 oz. no bone meat 1 oz. heart .5 oz. liver .5 oz. kidney FRIDAY: 6 oz. bone-in meat 2 oz. no bone meat 1 oz. heart .5 oz. liver .5 oz. kidney SATURDAY: 5 oz. bone-in meat 3 oz. no bone meat 1 oz. heart .5 oz. liver .5 oz. kidney SUNDAY: 6 oz. bone-in meat 2 oz. no bone meat 1 oz. heart .5 oz. liver .5 oz. kidney The bone-in meats: quail frames ground chicken frames ground duck meat and bone ground lamb meat and bone ground The no bone meats: turkey lamb beef The liver: turkey The heart: turkey The kidney: pork Currently, I measure out the grinds in ice cube trays, freeze, pop-out, place in zip lock bags, store in freezer. I make up his diet a week at a time in separate bags. Each 24 hour period, I thaw one bag, mix all the meats together, top with half a squirt of salmon oil and 1.5 tsp. ferret tone. Mix it all together. Divide into four small bowls and store in refrig. and feed over the course of the next 24 hours. I never throw anything away. Now that I have worked in mice, he may not eat one of the bowls so it rolls over to the next day. I see what you did here, very smart, because Teddy will not eat his organs on their own you included them daily like the soup recipe. 50-60% should be bone in and you do fall into that range with those numbers though you could certainly make it 6oz of bone in each day and still be very safe, then the recipe would be consistent for you also. The recommendations for oils are 1/2tsb every three days. So 0.5mls a day would be plenty. FerreTone on the other hand is not recommended at all r/t an ingredient in it being linked to causing cancer.
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Post by FireAngel on Aug 13, 2015 22:40:22 GMT -5
For the Frankenprey and whole prey diet: Monday AM: Half Heart - 1/4 Liver - 1/4 Other Organ Monday PM: rat and mice whole prey Tuesday AM: chicken breast ground Tuesday PM: quail whole prey Wednesday AM: ground turkey no bone Wednesday PM: rat and mice whole prey Thursday AM: guinea pig whole prey Thursday PM: Half Liver - Half Other Organ Friday AM: quail whole prey Friday PM: ground lamb no bone Saturday AM: rat and mice whole prey Saturday PM: guinea pig whole prey Sunday AM: chicken breast ground Sunday PM: quail whole prey One whole chicken egg once per week. half a squirt of salmon oil daily. 1.5 tsp. Ferretone daily. AND LOTS AND LOTS OF LOVE! You have 8 Whole Prey meals, 1.5 organ meals, 1/2 of a heart meal, and 4 muscle meats look here Balancing Frankenprey with Whole meals and tell me what should be different. See above post about oils. You are a great ferret momma of course there's lots and lots of love, never a doubt!
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Post by FireAngel on Aug 13, 2015 22:55:19 GMT -5
Do either know anything about the Darwin Foods for felines? I have never heard of them so I looked them up! Over all it looks like a very good product, kind of an exciting find honestly. I do have a couple of things I would like to point out about it though, the first is that there is only 7% organs in it and that includes the heart! We recommend 10% heart and 10% organs half of that being liver. It looks like at least in the chicken one liver is the only organ so if feeding this more then 1 meal (I'm pretty sure one meal is not going to cause an imbalance worth mentioning), you might want to think about supplementing with some kidney or other organ. The second is that the amount of heart in it seems minimum and not enough for a ferret, again I would recommend supplementing with a heart meal if used. But they are so close to perfect! Our cat meals are 100% meat (of which 7% are organ meats) with a small nutrient mix of important trace minerals from natural sources. This is a high protein, moderate fat formula, with balanced Omega 6 and 3 fatty acids and essential minerals from natural or organic compounds. There are no grains in any of our meals. The protein in our meals comes from real meat, not from grain, vegetable sources or “meat byproducts”. Ingredients Free-Range Meat (97.5%): Chicken Necks with ground bone, Chicken Backs, Chicken Thigh Meat, Chicken Gizzards, Chicken Livers, Chicken Hearts. Special Nutrient Mix (2.25%): Magnesium Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese, Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Psyllium Husk Powder, Taurine, Potassium Chloride, Inulin, Choline Chloride, Sea Salt, Vitamin E, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12, EDDI (Iodine), Vitamin D3, Folic Acid. Fish Oils (.25%): Sardine Oil
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 23:29:55 GMT -5
I thought that Taurine powder can easily degrade (heat, exposure). Two sources would be heart and tongue.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 23:31:43 GMT -5
Good to know about the Ferretone. Will dispose of it. Will also measure the salmon oil. Do they need vitamin D3 since he is not exposed to the sun?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 23:33:33 GMT -5
The Darwin foods are something I stumbled on today. I thought they would need added organs, especially heart. But you know, if you had to be away and have someone caring for your baby, this might be great.
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Post by FireAngel on Aug 13, 2015 23:37:11 GMT -5
I thought that Taurine powder can easily degrade (heat, exposure). Two sources would be heart and tongue.
Yes Taurine powder can degrade with heat but the reason it cannot be used long term is more along the lines of why bone meal or eggshells can not be used long term. It just is not as good as the real thing. The original question asked for sources other then heart, tongue is one yes and oddly enough lung is another (actually I guess its not really all that odd considering our lungs get used at least 16 times a minute when we are awake), but both should also only be used as a temporary solution until heart can be obtained.
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