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Post by Heather on Jul 18, 2015 20:56:04 GMT -5
Name: Marcia S. Haverly HF Forum Username: Marcia Please confirm that you are 18 years of age or older: 60 years old. 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? Gioia Kerlin (breeder of my ferret) 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I have a 3 month old (intact)male ferret that is currently eating 6-7 mice and 2 chicks (frozen) per 24 hour period. Need to know what other food/supplements/vitamins I need to supplement for a balanced diet. 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? He is my 8th ferret in 23 years and the only one on a natural diet. I lost the others to many metabolic disorders that ended in the development of cancer. 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It requires a commitment of several months at minimum. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switching your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as committed. The switch takes time and effort every single day. It can also be extremely frustrating at times. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc), or limited time due to work, then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing and realistically able to make the neccessary time commitment? Yes. I am retired and want what is best for my ferret. 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? Theodore Carrington Haverly (Teddy) is my only ferret and he has me to play with. My first ferret, Gea, lived 8.5 years. The second, Gwydion, lived 7 years. Third one (I adopted at age 5), Baby, lived 7.5 years. Fourth, Stuart Little, lived 7.5 years. Fifth, Gracie Ann, lived 5 years (lymphoma). Sixth, Oliver, lived 7.5 years. Seventh, Elliot Thomas, lived 7.5 years. I insure all my ferrets with VPI. 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup? Frozen adult mice (6-7) and day-old chicks (2) per 24 hour period. No soup. 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? No. 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? I am and extremely committed ferret mommy. 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?Daily. 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). 11. Have you met the requirements for this program? Are you at least 18 years of age? Do you have your scale, a place to access meats, hearts, livers, etc? Yes. Yes. I have a scale. Hi and welcome to the mentoring program . In a little while your mentor ( FireAngel & HurricaneKatt ), will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun (dance) Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 18, 2015 22:17:16 GMT -5
Hi there welcome to your official switching thread! Katt will say hello too very soon I'm sure! This switch is a. It different because it's not really a switch but more of a let's get balanced. Teddy already eats raw, we just have to get his diet balanced and with more variety. This was your last post in your unofficial thread, marcia Avatar Jul 18, 2015 21:42:54 GMT -4 marcia said: Thank you FerretsNFalcons for all your help! This is the menu she sent me to work with. Only today, I hit a brick wall with Teddy refusing to eat the turkey liver, heart, gizzard mix. So I have not let him have anything else to eat in hopes he will get hungry enough to eat it. I tried topping it with salmon oil and mixing it with ground quail, but still won't eat it. I am going to stop feeding him 4-5 meals/day and just do the two large meals/day. Feedback is always welcome! Monday Morning Meal- 5oz Ground Turkey Heart, Liver, Gizzard Evening Meal- 5oz Mice Tuesday Morning Meal- 2oz Ground Turkey Neck/ 3oz Boneless Meat (from market) Evening Meal- 5oz Boneless Meat (from market) Wednesday Morning Meal- 2oz Ground Chicken Heart, Gizzard/ 3oz Ground Lamb Evening Meal- 2.75oz Other Organ (from market), 2.25oz Ground Quail Frame Thursday Morning Meal- 5oz Mice Evening Meal- 2oz Ground Duck Neck, 3oz Boneless Meat (from market) Friday Morning Meal- 1.25oz Liver (from market), 3.75oz CGH Evening Meal- 2oz Ground Rabbit, 3oz Boneless Meat (from market) Saturday Morning Meal- 5oz Ground Poultry Blend Evening Meal- 5oz Boneless Meat (from market) Sunday Morning Meal- 5oz Ground Chicken Heart, Gizzard Evening Meal- 2oz Ground Duck, 3oz Boneless Meat (from market) Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/threads/recent/18630That thread will now be left for you or us to look back on but we shouldn't be posting there anymore so it should be locked soon also. How did Teddy do with the turkey in the end today? I will take a very good look at that menu tomorrow and see where/if it needs to be tweaked, for now it's late and I just wanted to say hi and let you know it's an official switch now!
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Post by katt on Jul 18, 2015 23:20:59 GMT -5
Location: Anchorage, Alaska I became a mentor because... I really like helping people (hence the whole becoming a doctor thing) and animals. I am a strong supporter of a natural diet and probably bore most people that I meet to death ranting about raw diet and why it is the best way to go…this way I can rant to someone who actually cares! About My Ferrets: Koda – male, Real Canadian, I got him when he was about 8 weeks old when I bought him in December 2009, Sable. I gave him raw the second he came home and he immediately ripped into it and started hissing to keep me away from his tasty prize! Neither of us has ever looked back. He is a real trouble maker and is pretty well known around the forums as such. He is my first ferret and he has forced me to learn and learn FAST! He has managed to eat several foreign objects, and is constantly finding new trouble to get into (his nose has a rubber detector in it). He had to have an emergency blockage surgery, which (we believe) ended up being the catalyst that resulted in his IBD. He loves digging the carpet up, or more recently chewing it, has a very serious oral fixation (if his mouth can stretch wide enough for his teeth to touch it – he will chew it), he will rearrange the room to reach things, has learned how to levitate, and is an all around little monster. He is also very strongly bonded to my boyfriend and I, and can be a huge love bug. When the endless energy is finally burned off, he will curl up in our laps, give us kisses, and fall asleep. As you can tell, I have this problem where I can’t stop talking about him or taking pictures of him… He has IBD which we struggled to get control of (and finally succeeded!) with diet. He has recently had a second blockage surgery, and this week he will be getting his second Des implant for juvenile adrenal. He's been a handful, that's for sure! Kenai: male, Silver/Black Roan Mitt. I brought Kenai home towards the end of November 2010 when he was about 7-8 weeks old. He is also eating 100% raw diet, whole prey, frankenprey, meaty bones you name it! He was a tiny little bag of bones when I brought him home, but he eats like a pig and grows like a weed! He is now huge and rolly-polly! definitely a little porker - he can barely make it out of his rice box because he is so bottom heavy. lmao He finally started shedding some fur and a little winter weight and is slimming up, but he is still a clumsy critter. haha He loves, LOVES toys and is a loveable, goofy little guy and has been helping to keep Koda company and burn off each others energy! He's definitely a little spaz - I thought Koda was until I got Kenai! He's a bit of a simpleton. He has trouble finding the potty box a lot, and he doesn’t learn very fast. He also is much less physically adept at things – he has trouble climbing and getting into/onto/out of things. He is sloooowly figuring out how to control his floppy body, but he definitely has some developmental delays. But, we love him just the same. About My Natural Feeding Experience: I've been feeding raw since December 2009 when I brought Koda home, but I had started researching a few months prior to that. Thanks to this forum, I was ready for a fuzzball to come home with my freezer stocked with meats! I gave him a raw chicken wing his first night home and that was the end of that! My boys are fed frankenprey, f/t rodents, and live prey. I have been reading and learning since before I brought Koda home and learned a lot from the people here on the forum. I am always on the forum, and various websites trying to learn more about ferrets in general, and especially raw diet. My boys are healthy, energetic, have super soft fur, and smell so good that people regularly comment, asking me what perfume or spray I sprayed them (esp Koda) with! I love telling them: Thanks to a raw diet - he just smells that good naturally! When Kenai first came home he had been eating Marshall's kibble and his poops were HUGE and smelled...awful doesn't even come close to describing it! Now he smells much better and his scraggly coat has been replaced by a luxurious pile of fur. Type of Mentor: Full switches only! I feed a frankenprey and whole prey diet - raw meats, bone-in meats, ground meats, frozen/thawed rodents, live prey, and occasionally freeze dried raw and commercially ground raw. I have never fed kibble so I can’t help with picking a good kibble. I absolutely do NOT do partial switches. My Specialty: Trouble makers! I focus entirely on full switches to raw – no more kibble! I "specialize" in ferrets with IBD and food allergies, many of who may need to do food trials. I have been through quite the ringer myself in that field with my boys. I do just about any type of switch including switches to Frankenprey, whole prey (live or f/t), and commercial raw (whole and grinds) but I will NOT do partial switches.
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Post by katt on Jul 18, 2015 23:24:58 GMT -5
Hi Marcia! (wave) Happy to be working with you! I can't wait to learn more about your boy. Can you tell me more about what your end-goal is with his diet? Do you plan to do Whole prey and grinds, Whole prey and Frankenprey, grinds and frankenprey with the occasional whole prey, mostly whole prey...? Also, I know FireAngel has been following your switch but so I can get caught up can you please post a recap of where you are at now? What is Teddy eating, and what does his menu roughly look like each week right NOW (what he is actually eating vs what you want him to be eating lol)?
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 19, 2015 22:35:44 GMT -5
marcia, hope everything is ok and you are having a good time with Teddy today! Can't wait to share with you my thoughts on the proposed menu you posted. Some of it doesn't add up.
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Post by katt on Jul 19, 2015 22:56:48 GMT -5
Hi Marcia! Checking in for an update.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 23:44:55 GMT -5
THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
Teddy and I had a standoff yesterday with the liver, gizzard, heart mix. He finally got hungry enough to eat it. He HATES liver.
The end result I am looking for is doing the absolute best for Teddy. Having had seven other ferrets over a period of 23 years who all succumbed to metabolic disorders/cancer which, I believe, were all caused by diet, I want to feed him totally natural raw. I did not know this forum existed. I asked numerous vets for info with no success. So here I am. Ready, willing, able!
When I picked up Teddy from the breeder four weeks ago, the breeder was feeding him four adult mice and one extra small baby chick per day. She offered free feed of Freshpet chicken with white ocean fish. I noticed right away that he wanted more to eat. So I weaned him off the Freshpet, offered him more mice and one more baby chick. I noticed he seemed bored at times and not so eager to eat so I tried a raw chicken wing. He chewed on it a little. So I tried a raw chicken thigh and he ate 1/4 of it but no bone. Then I tried ground turkey and ground chicken and he almost inhaled them. So I started researching buying some more meats for Teddy. The places I called in the East USA will not ship to Nevada this time of year. So, I started calling places in CA. A company in CA referred me to a company here in Vegas called Rah!Raw!Rah! Pet Food. The owner of the company has been researching ferrets and has really made the effort to help me out. She sells "OMA's Pride" grinds. This is what I currently have in my freezer. Keep in mind, I divide the meats into ice cube trays, freeze, pop them out, place in baggies.
Ground quail frames (no organs) Ground chicken frames (no organs) Ground duck necks Ground turkey necks Organic ground beef (I bought it at grocery store) (no bones) Whole chicken gizzards Cut up Cornish game hen Chicken gizzard/heart mix (50%/50%) Turkey Liver (25%), heart (50%), gizzard (25%) mix Adult white mice (weigh ~ 1/2 oz each) Extra small baby chicks Ground Ostrich (no bones) Poultry blend of chicken breast, chicken thighs, turkey liver, heart, gizzard. (they basically took the turkey organ mix and blended it with chicken breasts and thighs).
I had listed the percentages I knew of the grinds in an earlier post....not sure where it is located now. Anyway, a sweet girl in Henderson who is on the forum (FerretsnFalcons) spent a lot of time working out a menu for Teddy. It is just that if I attempt to feed 5 oz of mice, that is a LOT of mice. He is much more fond of the grinds than eating all mice. It looks like in a 24 hour period, Teddy is consuming ~ 8 or 9 oz of food. I am attempting to feed him only twice a day and I don't leave what is left (if any) out. He just has to wait till the next meal. Not sure if I should be doing that. He currently weighs 3 1/2 pounds at 16 weeks old. AND he is MESS!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 23:46:21 GMT -5
A MESS! is what I meant to say.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 23:50:26 GMT -5
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 20, 2015 0:03:33 GMT -5
He should always have food available to him. When he finishes what out you should put out the rest. I based my calculations on the 10oz a day that your menu says you are feeding and came up with, 70 oz a week so breaking down the heart, liver and other organs would be 10% heart = 7oz 5% liver = 3.5 oz 5% other = 3.5oz With the current menu you have 7.5oz of heart (a little more heart is not a bad thing) 2.5oz liver need one more ounce 2.75oz other need 0.75 more ounces What is your other organ? Also is the chicken heart and gizzards a 50/50 mix because that might change the math also. I'm glad Teddy finally ate the turkey mix for you! 3.5lbs wow! He is a big boy!
Edit - cross posted so math stays the same as the mix in question is 50/50
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 1:04:13 GMT -5
Thank you sooo much! Did not get to international market today. Will go tomorrow. Also, we will be leaving on vacation Tuesday through Sunday, so I will not have much access to a computer. Thank you for everything! And yes, the heart/gizzard mix is 50/50. I also purchased some ground meats with no bone and adjust according to poop consistency. Is that ok? Also, what toothpaste do you recommend? I always used my finger as the toothbrush.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 1:05:13 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 1:06:56 GMT -5
This was my precious Elliot I lost in March This is my husband and me
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 20, 2015 9:45:50 GMT -5
Arm and hammer advanced pet care seems to be the most highly recommended one here. Once Teddy is on bones this will not even really be necessary. The bones do all the cleaning! Yes it's fine to add a bit of ground meat if there is too much bone in his diet. He should be able to eat chunks now though. Let me know what you got at the market. The variety is pretty interesting. Those pictures are great thank you for them!
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 20, 2015 9:53:12 GMT -5
Is your ground lamb just lamb no bones, no organs? And what about the ground rabbit? If he menu you were given is so broken up its taking me awhile to break it down but it looks like you may actually be fine in organ amounts because of the mice but not enough in bone... I know this menu is not what he is actually eating right now so asking how his poops are will not help lol!
editing so bear with me if your reading this. Edit is done
This is something bitbyter did and is very helpful.
Monday am: edible bone in meat Monday pm: edible bone in meat
Tuesday am: edible bone in meat Tuesday pm: muscle meat
Wednesday am: edible bone in meat Wednesday pm: heart
Thursday am: edible bone in meat Thursday pm: edible bone in meat
Friday am: edible bone in meat Friday pm: ½ heart + ¼ liver + ¼ other organ
Saturday am: edible bone in meat Saturday pm: muscle meat
Sunday am: edible bone in meat Sunday pm: ½ liver + ½ other organ
Edible bone in meat: is just that meat with bone included. It is NOT bones with just a bit of meat on them (ie: most of the meat removed). If you fed bones like this you will throw the balance of the menu off. See below for acceptable bone in meats chicken: any / all, quail: any / all, rabbit: any / all, turkey: necks, ribs, and wing tips, duck: neck, ribs, and wing tips. pork: button bones, rib ends, cornish game hen: any / all. Any commercial frozen raw with 10% to 15% ground bone. Any freeze dried raw with 10%-15% ground bone.
Muscle meat: any heart meat. Chicken (including gizzard), turkey, duck, lamb, goat, beef, Cornish Game Hen (counts as chicken), venison, elk, basically any meat (unaltered such as smoked, pickled or injected with salt) without bone.
*heart is considered a muscle meat but is ABSOLUTELY necessary as it is their primary source of taurine. Lack of taurine in their diet can lead to eyesight problems and other issues.
Organ meat: Liver, kidney, thymus, pancreas, reproductive organs, lung, brain, basically any part of the body that secretes.
Fat is an important part of a carnivore's diet as this is where they get their energy. It works for them in the same way carbs do for humans. Make sure to pick fattier cuts over leaner cuts when buying
His example has 9 bone in meals but we can start with 7 and go from there. Currently your bone in meals are not actually the whole meal and therefore you end up with only like 3 bone in meals plus the whole prey. With 2 whole prey meals Teddy needs at least 5 bone in meals. Here is a chart to help you, Balancing Act it is also based on 9 bone in meals but is easily adjusted.
here is an example of what Teddy’s menu might look like if the lamb and rabbit are only meats based on a 7 bone in meal diet.
Monday am- 5oz ground turkey heart/liver/gizzard pm- 5oz mice
Tuesday
Am- 5oz ground turkey neck
Pm- 5oz boneless muscle meat
Wednesday
Am- 5oz ground chicken heart/gizzard
Pm- 5oz ground quail bone in
Thursday
Am- 1.5oz other organ + 3.5 ground duck neck
Pm- 1.5oz other organ + 3.5 CGH bone in
Friday
Am- 5oz mice
Pm- 1.75oz liver + 3.25oz ground lamb
Saturday
Am- 5oz ground duck neck
Pm- 5oz ground poultry blend
Sunday
Am- 5oz ground chicken heart/gizzards
Pm- 5oz ground turkey neck
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