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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 12:37:05 GMT -5
I have been studying the diet models and need some feedback on some of the foods I have available. I live in Las Vegas, NV and heat has been an issue in getting meats shipped to me. I finally received a frozen shipment from RodentPro of mainly adult mice and a few bags of baby chicks after two attempts. The first shipment thawed and had to be discarded. That being said, I am doing the best I can with what I can find here.
I recently found a company here that sells "OMA's Pride" commercial grinds and have been working with the owner in getting the percentages of meat/bone/organs information. When I bought the ferret from the breeder she was feeding him adult mice and baby chicks for his diet. I am trying to add to that diet for more nutrition. He is four months old and weighs 3.5 pounds. He is intact and full of energy. He has full run of the house.
I have Salmon oil I give 1/2 teaspoon daily.
I am feeding 3 or 4 adult white mice daily and one baby chick three times a week. He also gets a whole chicken gizzard three times a week.
As for the rest of the diet, I am currently trying to buy organs in the grocery store (liver and still looking for the "other") organ. I will shop in a specialty store today to see what I can find. He will not eat liver served alone nor will he eat beef organs or venison.
So this is what I have purchased thus far: (I spoon meats into ice cube trays, freeze, pop out cubes, thaw and feed. I would say each cube is approximately 1.5 - 2 T. each)
Ground quail frames (~50% meat and 50% bone) Ground turkey necks with bone Ground duck necks with bone Ground chicken hearts and gizzards (50/50) Ground turkey heart (50%), liver (25%), gizzard (25%)
I have ordered today to arrive:
Ground Lamb with bone Ground Poultry Blend with thigh, breast, liver, gizzard, heart, bone (no set percentages)
On backorder:
Ground duck with bone Ground rabbit with bone
With the heat situation, I will not be able to order from Rodentpro until Oct. or Nov. MY PET CARNIVORE does not ship to Las Vegas. When I can order again from Rodentpro, I was thinking of ordering whole quail and adult rats.
I have tried feeding Teddy liver alone and heart alone. He will not touch it. Not even the chicken organs. However, when mixed he will eat it.....as long as it is not beef organs.
So, now come the balancing act! And I am feeding him four times per day.
This is where I need help! Should I feed the turkey heart, liver, gizzard more often since the ratio on the blend is not 50% liver? Or should I buy chicken liver, grind it up and and a little more liver to the feeding? |
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 17, 2015 13:21:23 GMT -5
It's important to know just how much of what is in the grinds. Is it 25%muscle or 80%, 10% bone or 50% how much of the organs are heart and how much is liver. We need to know this in order to help you make a balanced menu. Grinds in general while easy to serve do not provide the teeth cleaning the ferrets need so you will have to clean his teeth on a regular basis or take him to the vet to have them cleaned.
What is your goal in the end for him? Whole prey with frankenprey, or just frankenprey?
A balanced diet would be comprised of 10-15% bone
10% heart
5% liver
5% other secreting organ
65-70% muscle meat.
That is approximately what a whole prey is comprised of and what a frankenprey diet mimics and why it is important to know percentages of things and just how much the beastie is eating In ounces and not tsp or tbs.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 13:40:07 GMT -5
Thank you. I gave you the percentages I know and the owner knows. None of the grinds are 80/10/10. I can't order from a company that has these percentages due to where I live. I have not found a butcher here in Las Vegas who will grind the meat with the bones. This is all I can do other than just placing him on kibble. I may be forced to do just that as I am hitting brick walls and becoming discouraged. I spent $240 on live prey and over $100 on these grinds. I can order Totally Ferret kibble.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 13:46:59 GMT -5
I will buy a scale today if you think this diet can work. Other than that, I will have to order the kibble. Between 2 am and 7 am he ate (measured out) 2 oz of ground turkey neck with bone. At 8 am he ate one adult mouse and 1 oz ground quail frame with bone and 1 oz ground duck neck with bone and 1/2 tsp salmon oil. I will feed him at noon, 6 pm, 10 pm, and then leave meat out for him (2 oz). I will feed him 2 or 3 more mice today.
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 17, 2015 13:48:51 GMT -5
Thank you. I gave you the percentages I know and the owner knows. None of the grinds are 80/10/10. I can't order from a company that has these percentages due to where I live. I have not found a butcher here in Las Vegas who will grind the meat with the bones. This is all I can do other than just placing him on kibble. I may be forced to do just that as I am hitting brick walls and becoming discouraged. I spent $240 on live prey and over $100 on these grinds. I can order Totally Ferret kibble. It sounds to me like a frankenprey diet is where you need to focus on then. Grinds are not great long term anyway and if you cannot keep a consistent supply of mice, rats, guinea pigs etc your best bet to keep him on a healthy balanced diet is frankenprey. This way all you have to do is go to the grocery store, the butcher or an Asian food mart to feed him. He is young enough that grinds are completely unnecessary and if he is already eating mice and chicks should have no issues with frankenprey. Also frankenprey is cheaper then the grinds anyway. Is this making sense? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 14:09:52 GMT -5
Yikes! I have $40 more of grinds arriving today....Lamb with bone and poultry blend which is thigh, breast, liver, heart, and gizzard. So I will have to use up what I have. I have cut up an entire Cornish game hen (fed in pieces)but he wasn't that fond of it. I will buy a scale today and then try to find an international market. But I am going to have to use up the frozen mice and frozen chicks and the grinds. Can you help me figure out a way to work them all in so as not to waste them? I can go buy the organs and muscle meats and chop them up and mix them with the grinds. He LOVES the grinds....especially the quail. When winter comes, I will then order from Rodentpro the whole prey. I prefer to keep him on whole prey with a little raw worked in. It is just too bad about the grinds as they are close by and he loves them. Their turkey liver, gizzard, heart mix and their chicken heart/gizzard mix are the only organs I have been able to get him to eat. I bought each one separately and he would not touch it. Just feeling really frustrated right now.
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 17, 2015 14:24:06 GMT -5
Without knowing what the breakdown of organs/bones/heart/muscle meat is in the grinds this will be difficult but we can try! What exactly is the brand of the grinds, Oma? Also when you say frame I am guessing that means the whole animal minus the organs?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 14:26:48 GMT -5
spoke with owner of company. she stated that the average prey animal has 10-15% bone and 10% organs and the rest muscle meat, connective tissue, etc. So, what would you classify duck neck, turkey neck, quail frames with meat as? The chicken heart/gizzard is equally divided (50/50). The turkey organ blend is 25% liver, 50% heart, 25% gizzard. The lamb I will be receiving is just ground up lamb with bone and no organs. Same will be with the duck and rabbit. As for the Chicken, it sounds the most balanced as it is the breast, thighs, bone, liver, gizzard and heart.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 14:30:17 GMT -5
Yes. Frames don't include the organs. The brand is "Oma's Pride." I watch his poops as they do get loose after I feed him the chicken gizzard/hearts, and the turkey liver, gizzard, heart blend. Then I follow with the quail frame, duck neck, or turkey neck and it firms right up. If I see his poop looks dry, then I feed him some organs. The baby chicks helps to loosen his stool also.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 14:32:29 GMT -5
He eats all day long...sometimes 5 times. I just need to weigh every single thing to get an idea. Then I can add some muscle meats and organs into the grinds to disguise them. Then at the end of the day I think I will just have a beer or wine! LOL!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 14:33:40 GMT -5
Raising three kids wasn't this difficult.......LOL!
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 17, 2015 14:36:11 GMT -5
Gizzard is considered a muscle meat and when not ground is great for jaw strength! So you heart and gizzard blend is basically half heart and half muscle meat.
Let's start with a basic understanding of what frankenprey is and how we can supplement it with what you have.
Celene Avatar
Apr 22, 2015 1:09:43 GMT -4 Celene said:
So I know many of you feed a combination of whole prey AND frankenprey, and have been wondering just how to balance the frankenprey meals... Well, wonder no longer! We have come up with a simple to use guide on balancing frakenprey meals depending on how many meals/week you are feeding whole prey or CGR.
For half organ meals (because it's awkward to feed just half a meal) I usually make a single meal of 50% heart and 50% organs.
The number of bone in meals required varies per a ferret's individual dietary requirements. The general rule of thumb is liquid poops => need more bone, hard poops => need less bone.
If you aren't sure what is considered a bone-in meat or what is considered a secreting organ, our original frankenprey document (with descriptions) can be found here.
This guide applies to anyone feeding "balanced" meals during the week including whole prey, commercial raw grinds, and freeze-dried raw meals.
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 17, 2015 14:38:59 GMT -5
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 17, 2015 14:43:09 GMT -5
Duck necks and chicken necks would be considered a bone in meal. We can work with your grinds but I would like to see you get another organ, )kidney, pancreas, brain) to be able to balance out the turkey and chicken grinds. The Asian market should be a great place for you to be able to pick up some organs and quails too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 16:24:45 GMT -5
I get ASf rats and mice from Perfect Prey. They r out of Florida. They ship their vacuumed packed rats in dry ice and then that is wrapped in some type of insulation---never thawed. The insulation looks like wall insulation. Got burned from dry ice  With Hare Today, you can buy extra ice paks for a dollar a piece. My ferrets flat refuse to eat their bunnies--They r so cute , almost a shame. Ferrets luv the Hare Today guinea pigs.Took them a while to get them to eat them,though. One meat they have not initially refused and that is squirrel. Mine grow tired of things if i serve it too many times like several meals. Guinea pigs and rabbits are very clean looking. I have never compared prices between Rodent Pro and Hare Today. |
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