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Post by Klarissa on Jul 13, 2015 21:02:21 GMT -5
Am I making this right? Hopefully. Bear is a reasonable girl, she switched from Extrusion to Orijen flawlessly. In fact, from day one she would flip the dish, and leave Extrusion behind. Smart girl. I have been feeding a soup concoction (it took me awhile to track down some suitable raw meat, which is now defrosting). The soup is Almo Natural Chicken (just cooked chicken) + Stella & Chewy FDR + Salmon Oil (+ 1 tsp of ground kibble to coax Trixie in her soup). Bear gobbles it up, and I'm starting to make it thicker. Tonight I even added some commercial raw cat food and she ate it too! Miss Priss Trixie, however, has her name for a reason. Her latest feat is refusing to eat anything but Marshalls kibble, unless I feed it to her off my fingers. She ate the soup with raw chicken provided I offered to let her lick it off my fingers. I've tried several bowls, tomorrow I'm going to try a small plate. Trixie is a diva. However she too ate some of the raw cat food Bear had (off my fingers of course). The Pet Global (they only carry high end pet foods) have given me tonnes of free samples of good quality product (the commercial cat raw, Almo Natural, and Stella & Chewy FDR) which were great for introducing them to meat at all. The say I brought them home they would only hide pieces of cooked chicken everywhere, but not eat a bite. I think I will continue to use Stella & Chewy for the soup, as they carry Rabbit, Lamb, and other meats so I can get a feel of what my fuzzbutts like. My local organic farmers market carries "Healthy Pet Food", and all it is, is a pound of ground chicken or venison with organs and bones already in it. I have the chicken defrosting in the fridge now, and can't wait to try it with Bear & Trixie tomorrow. (At the very least I know two pups who would love any left overs the ferrets didn't like). But neither of them like Salmon Oil. Trixie likes Vaseline (obviously not as a regular additive), and Bear likes coconut oil. What I'm wondering is, when feeding meat, how often? They are both small females, (getting my hubby to weigh them now). Should I do 3-4 small meals a day, or just morning & night? (I will establish how much based on what they are willing to eat.) Trixie - 1.4 lbs Bear- 1.8lbs *it's so weird that ferrets have such an precise eating mechanism. If I fed my dogs based on what they'd eat, they would eat themselves to death *
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Post by raynebc on Jul 14, 2015 1:20:03 GMT -5
If you can keep enough food in the bowl/plate so it doesn't go empty between feedings, feeding every 12 hours is fine and I believe what most of us eventually do. It makes things easier to plan. Little girl ferrets shouldn't eat too much, you could try feeding 4-6 ounces for a couple meal and seeing how close they get to emptying the plate, and increasing/decreasing portion size as applicable. Aim for a little extra left at each meal time in case they're a little hungrier that day.
As far as store-made raw pet food, you may want to ask about what's in it. When I was shopping around for meat sources before, there was a butcher that sold a raw pet food that was 25% each of heart, liver, lung and muscle. That doesn't contain any bone and the organ proportions are much higher than they should be for ferrets. They may be able to work with you and adjust the amount of heart, organs, etc. They may not be willing to add bone though because grinding bone was indicated to be much more involved than grinding meat.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2015 1:28:10 GMT -5
It's great to see you're choosing a healthier path for your babies, you won't regret it, the changes are amazing. I have a stubborn ferret too, so I know how that is. Then I have one who gobbles most stuff up no problem (except bones, God forbid I give her bones, hahaha, we're working on it). First, are you looking to switch them to a frankenprey diet? Frankenprey is just another word for feeding mostly store bought meat, or just feeding meat that is not whole prey, such as chicken thighs, necks, wings, bone in, muscle meat and organs is frankenprey. Or, are you looking to feed something commercial, like grinds or FDR? Frankenprey is the most wallet-friendly diet, and it's best for them giving that they have to use those jaw muscles to eat and it helps keep their teeth clean and mind stimulated. And grinds are less wallet-friendly, but more time-friendly. I feed grinds at the moment, I order mine from Hare-Today. If you're looking to feed them frankenprey, well there is A LOT of info on that, can't cover it in one post, but most people start with a soupie, then move up at a pace that their individual ferret will accept, and eventually get to whole chunks and such. If you're looking to feed grinds exclusively or FDR, then you can start by adding some water to the grinds, perhaps warming them up, and spoon feeding or hand feeding them, adding less and less water each meal until no water is added, and sticking with that. With FDR, you just re-hydrate it by putting it in water and feed, you can also add extra water and spoon feed with that too. There are different ways to come at this all depending on what your intentions are, so let me know what you wanna do, or if you aren't sure then feel free to ask any questions and we can figure it out. So let me know, and we'll get back to it! As for how often to feed, generally you'll feed two main meals a day, every 12 hours. But it's important to make sure they have access to food at all times, ferrets digestive track is only 3-4 hours so they should always be able to eat whenever they need to. As for how long their food will stay good for at room temp, soups will for about 6-8 hours, slivers/small chunks for 8-10 hours, chunks and bone-in for 8-24 hours depending on how big they are, and whole prey for up to 48 hours. I'm Emily btw, it's very nice to meet you and welcome to HFF and the world of raw feeding! We're all super happy to have you and to help. Plus we here LOVE pictures, so if you can post some of Trixie and Bear that'd be awesome
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Post by Klarissa on Jul 14, 2015 8:29:36 GMT -5
I'm Klarissa. Holy crap! The meat lasts that long at room temp?! That makes me super happy. I always figured it was good for longer because they can't get some of the food poisoning we do, but that's way longer than I expected. I want to feed frankenpray and some whole prey - I'm not remotely grossed out about it, and I think whole prey is great for their tiny adorable, killer minds too Ideally I want to get to a point where they eat enough frankenpray, I can shop for large amounts (once a month or so) and just prep a months worth of raw meat for my ferrets & dogs. The grinds I found while looking for chicken hearts/liver. I have access to great muscle & bone it meats, but the organs have been harder to find. So I bought the grinds for the interim, since it has everything they need. The FDR also is for the interim, my local pet store carries small sample sizes for $1, so we can try rabbit, Lamb, venison, etc see what they like. The commercial raw cat food would be great - for a cat, but has too much veggie for a ferret. I'm so excited to feed raw - I find feeding kibble to ferrets/dogs/cats isn't just about convenience, but people just don't want to think of their best furry friend as meat eating, predators. But I think it's cool, especially the ferret; so small, yet so feisty.
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Post by Klarissa on Jul 14, 2015 8:31:20 GMT -5
And thank you for your help! I'm trying to add photos from the app but its not working
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2015 23:20:32 GMT -5
Whole prey is a great option, most all people only feed it as a supplemental thing or occasionally half-half with something else because feeding whole prey exclusively is very expensive, but it is actually the best diet for them. Since you're wanting to do a frankenprey/whole prey route, I'd start out with the soupie recipe. What most people do is begin with the soup, then move up to soup and slivers, then slowly making the slivers bigger and eventually off soup and onto chunks of meat, then onto chunks and bone-in meat, then they introduce whole prey once they've successfully switched to frankenprey. The soup recipe is as follows, 8 oz chicken thigh 1 ounce chicken heart 1 ounce chicken liver 1/2 tsp eggshell or bonemeal powder most of us choose to do chicken as a first protein because it's easiest and cheapest meat to find and also widely accepted by most ferrets, but you can start with any meat you want to, though chicken is recommended as a starter. There is a lot to raw feeding, so let me know if you don't understand something or maybe are feeling overwhelmed, it happens to the best of us I'm going to give you a general rundown of frankenprey, let me know if you have any questions. Frankenprey is weekly- 7-9 Bone-in Meals 3-4 Muscle Meals Half Liver & Half Other Organ Half Heart, 1/4 Liver and 1/4 Other Organ 1 Meal of Hearts At least one Red Meat meal A minimum of 3 different proteins Edible Bone-In Meat is the non-weight bearing bones of the animal the size of a chicken or smaller. Muscle Meat is any meat not containing bone, remember that Heart is a muscle and must be one of the muscle meals. "Other" organ is any organ that secretes, Kidney, Spleen, Pancreas, Brain, Thymus, etc. Here is a sample menu that you can fill out to help you learn - Monday AM: Half Heart - 1/4 Liver - 1/4 Other Organ Monday PM: Edible Bone-In Meal Tuesday AM: Muscle Meal Tuesday PM: Edible Bone-In Meal Wednesday AM: Muscle Meal Wednesday PM: Edible Bone-In Meal Thursday AM: Edible Bone-In Thursday PM: Half Liver - Half Other Organ Friday AM: Edible Bone-In Meal Friday PM: Muscle Meal Saturday AM: Edible Bone-In Meal Saturday PM: Edible Bone-In Sunday AM: Muscle Meal Sunday PM: Edible Bone-In Meal You can find organs, hearts, and meats like quail and such at most any Asian/Hispanic market. In the beginning of the switch we like to do one protein at a time, usually we do chicken because it's generally most easily taken, found and the cheapest meat. If you introduce too many proteins in a short period and your ferret has an allergy, you won't know which protein it is they are allergic to. Food allergies are usually detected from projectile vomiting and diarrhea, but they can be a bit subtle too and can be your ferret chewing, having runny/odd poos, etc, not very common but possible. Let me know if you are able to find the ingredients to make the soup recipe, and if/when you can get them we can begin with that, it is easiest to start with though grinds/fdr and definitely okay to feed, the soup is completely balanced and well accepted, and we have had huge success with starting with this. But I definitely suggest feeding them what you have already bought, if you only bought a little you can let them finish it up before starting the soupie, if you bought a fair amount you can feed it as a weekly thing during the soupie or save it for any other times, meat in the freezer never goes bad, freezer burnt meat has all the same nutritional value, it's just the texture is different but animals don't mind it, just us picky humans (giggle)
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Post by Klarissa on Jul 15, 2015 9:54:20 GMT -5
Bear has been so accepting, I knew she would take meat now if she had a chance. So last night I put 1 tbsp of the grinds in a bowl with 1tsp of ground kibble, and added water to make a thick mix. Trixie would only lick it off my fingers, and make the least subtle gestures at her empty bowl of kibble. Tough! I only left out the meat, and eventually Miss Priss came around and ate it. This weekend I'm going into the city & going to "Chinatown" to get lots of chicken liver/heart.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 15:59:45 GMT -5
That's good progress! A lot of ferrets take weeks to get to even willingly take a lick of raw, so yours are doing very well so far. Mine took to the soup on the first day but only because I added (a bit too much, lol) salmon oil. You can try that with yours if they like salmon oil, or you can buy some and see how they like it, just put a few drops on too of the soup/grind/etc and most will at the least take a few licks. Sometimes you do need to start with finger feeding, what you do with those fuzzers are sit in the floor with the bowl in front of you, feed from your fingers and then slowly lower your fingers closer and closer to the meat until eventually they start eating out of the bowl/plate. I did this with mine and spoon feeding the soup, it only took a few days to get them eating on their own. With enough determination and consistency on your part it doesn't have to take more than a few days or weeks for those stubborn fuzzers to be completely switched.
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Post by Klarissa on Jul 15, 2015 17:27:29 GMT -5
Bear is a little pig, and has yet to turn away anything. I think Trixie just likes being difficult, little stinker Thanks for all your help the hardest part of raw feeding for me is getting them to switch over.
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Post by Klarissa on Jul 15, 2015 19:37:30 GMT -5
Tonight Trixie happily gobbled down 1/2 tbsp of raw chicken grinds with very little ground kibble mixed in (1/2 tsp). There were even some pretty large pieces she seemed to enjoy tearing apart. I can't wait until the weekend when I can hunt down some organs and make some soup with slivers.
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 15, 2015 20:43:22 GMT -5
Remind me how old they are please. @julesalot has given you some great advice and it looks like your off to a good start. If you have the time to feed often and keep an eye on their bowls I would try leaving about 2 oz at a time out for them until you can get a good grip on just how much they are eating and of course each time decrease the amount of kibble in it. This will help cut back on a lot of waste for you at night time you can just put out however much they ate during the day, maybe an ounce more just to be on the safe side then you don't have to worry about needing to wake to feed them. Adult male ferrets eat 2-5 oz a day and females 1-3 on average. Kits are tummies with teeth and can eat you out of house and home! Lol
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Post by Klarissa on Jul 16, 2015 9:25:23 GMT -5
Bear is 4 years old (1.8lbs) and Trixie is 7 years old (1.4 lbs).
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Post by Klarissa on Jul 16, 2015 11:09:01 GMT -5
Just found chicken backs (with bones in) at Zehrs. Chicken gizzards & liver at Fresh Co. I'm unapologetically excited about them eating raw. Stocking up for when my little fuzzers will rip into meat but can't find heart, which is important. Is there alternative sources of Taurine until I can go into the city and get heart? Also, if you walk around a meat department going "I really need some heart" people look at you funny
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Post by raynebc on Jul 16, 2015 14:31:08 GMT -5
Heart is probably the easiest Taurine source to get, other sources may be considered more exotic but you could look for tongue or a whole prey that's high in Taurine like mouse (mature, not a baby one). You can also get taurine powder from health food stores or the Internet.
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Post by Klarissa on Jul 16, 2015 14:39:14 GMT -5
I'm ordering some whole prey now, hoppers to start. What do gizzards count as for meat? I've attached my starting out menu, which will take effect Monday when I've picked up some chicken hearts & other organs. It is bland (chicken and some beef) now because they are just making the switch, but I'm going to feed whole prey twice a week, plus incorporate rabbit, duck, etc a they try new stuff. Thanks for the help!
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