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Post by brightstar on Jul 28, 2015 20:03:12 GMT -5
Update: I had to put a hold on the switch due to some family issues.
My adults are all at 75% raw, 25% FDR. The hold is giving me chance to work out their food quantity - their appetite has more than doubled since Moe joined them (and since I introduced raw to their diet.) So, although I'm not progressing with the switch, I am not taking a step back either.
Yesterday they ate a total of 10oz!
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 29, 2015 11:27:48 GMT -5
I'm sorry you're having family issues. I hope it all works out quickly and well. You're doing great and it's fine to take a pause if you need to. I'm glad you don't have to take a step back and I'm sure as soon as things settle you will no doubt be back and track and ready to try and progress!
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Post by brightstar on Aug 4, 2015 14:39:36 GMT -5
Despite not being able to be as consistent as I'd like with the transition, the ferrets are now all eating 100% raw soupie! Currently, it's in a very mushy, paste-like consistency.
What's the best way to handle the next step?
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Post by FireAngel on Aug 4, 2015 18:54:01 GMT -5
Start adding small slivers to it or doing grinds, here is a handy picture chart that might help you, Steps to Raw
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Post by brightstar on Aug 8, 2015 13:11:48 GMT -5
Now they're eating 100% soupie, I've started adding slivers into the mix as suggested. The pieces are maybe about as big as a fingernail at most. But the ferrets are giving me a bit of a scare today --- help!
Three of them seem to be coughing - I'm worried they tried to swallow the chicken whole and it's causng them problems. They don't seem to be struggling for breath, but they're coughing a lot and Penny was hiding in her tunnel making quiet crying sounds. I've let them all out to play and they are lively. But did I do something wrong? Should I have made the pieces any smaller? I took the bowl out but I don't see how I could - unless it was a grind, and they're already eating grind. There were no bones in the mix - it's just chicken thigh, liver and heart with egg shell powder for supplement
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 20:50:14 GMT -5
Hi brightstar, I've skimmed over your thread, it's wonderful they're on all soup now! As far as the coughing, have they been shedding or grooming themselves more lately? They could have had some hair caught in their throat, that happens to my two sometimes. It can be scary to witness the coughing fits. When it happens, pick them up and take them on a tour while holding them and calming them down. How are they both today? Anymore coughing? The crying noises Penny was making is what concerns me. But if she doesn't do it again and they don't have many coughing fits I wouldn't really worry. Giving them a whipped up raw egg or some salmon oil will help. The egg you can give once to twice weekly, and the salmon oil is 1/2 tsp every 3 days.
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Post by brightstar on Aug 10, 2015 17:42:14 GMT -5
@julesalot - I really think the coughing and crying had something to do with the food. It happened right after I fed them, and I did see Mel spitting out a piece of chicken whilst she was coughing.
When I fed them that evening, I added more soupie and less slivers. They did okay with that, so the next morning I tried them with slivers again. They were okay with that too. I haven't seen either of them coughing since my last post. Yesterday's evening meal was 100% slivers. They cleared out their bowl and I didn't see any of them coughing.
I'm anxious about stepping up to bigger pieces. The coughing and crying really scared me!
I suppose they're just getting used to the different textures of the diet? I was surprised they had problems though - I'd kept the pieces no larger than the FDR that I fed them before.
I've tried them with salmon oil and egg, but they just won't touch it. Perhaps I can mix it with their regular meal and tempt them that way.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2015 17:50:04 GMT -5
Could've went down the wrong pipe, when that happens to us hoomans it sure can cause a scare. So long as it doesn't happen more than once or twice I wouldn't worry So they're on all slivers right now? That's great! How big are the slivers so far? (ie: nail crescent, penny, quarter, thumb, etc) If they are no longer on soup, we will have to push them with the size of the slivers so we can get them onto chunks and bone-in. Be sure you are dusting the slivers with bonemeal or eggshell powder to make sure they are getting their calcium too. Have you ever given yours a heart/organ soup before? They'll need to have the nutrients from that till they are on frankenprey. Let me know if they are totally off soup now, and we can discuss balancing their diet till their switch is complete. :thumbsup:
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Post by brightstar on Aug 11, 2015 0:22:41 GMT -5
They are on all slivers now --- about 3/4 to 1 inch in size.
They're eating about 18oz a day (I have five ferrets.) I'm dusting the slivers with eggshell powder and mixing everything well together.
I'm using the basic soupie recipe; 8oz chicken thigh, 1/2oz liver and 1oz heart, plus 1/2 tsp eggshell powder (per meal).
I've always included the heart and liver in with the chicken thigh. Do I need to start giving them entirely heart and liver meals only?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 8:16:35 GMT -5
You're doing very good With the heart/organ meals, if yours are just on slivers now it would be a good idea to start separating those meals, as in frankenprey they are separate. If they're eating their heart and liver in slivers then keep with that, just don't mix it with chicken thigh. This is a basic frankenprey menu, below this one I will give you one that you can follow until they are on bone-in. Monday AM: Half Heart - 1/4 Liver - 1/4 Other Organ Monday PM: Edible Bone-In Meal Tuesday AM: Muscle Meal Tuesday PM: Edible Bone-In Meal Wednesday AM: Muscle Meal Wednesday PM: Edible Bone-In Meal Thursday AM: Edible Bone-In Thursday PM: Half Liver - Half Other Organ Friday AM: Edible Bone-In Meal Friday PM: Muscle Meal Saturday AM: Edible Bone-In Meal Saturday PM: Edible Bone-In Sunday AM: Muscle Meal Sunday PM: Edible Bone-In Meal Since we aren't yet on bone, we can't follow the above menu, so this next one will be based on just muscle meat, heart and organs. Just remember to add eggshell powder to every meal. You can switch up what you want to feed on what days, but follow this general guideline. Monday AM: Half Heart, 1/4 Liver 1/4 Other Other Organ Monday PM: Muscle Meat Tuesday AM: Muscle Meat Tuesday PM: Muscle Meat Wednesday AM: Meal of Hearts Wednesday PM: Muscle Meat Thursday AM: Muscle Meat Thursday PM: Red Muscle Meat (ie: beef, mutton, rabbit, etc) Friday AM: Muscle Meat Friday PM: Muscle Meat Saturday AM: Half Liver, Half Other Organ Saturday PM: Muscle Meat Sunday AM: Muscle Meat Sunday PM: Muscle Meat now, the goal here is to start mimicking frankenprey, just without bone (for now). So, in order to have them on a balanced diet you will need to make sure in their weekly menu you have the following (striked out bone-in and muscle, to make it less confusing, we are only working on right now) 7-9 Bone-in Meals (ei: chicken wings, necks, frog legs, etc) 3-4 Muscle Meals (remember, heart is a muscle)Half Liver & Half Other Organ Half Heart, 1/4 Liver and 1/4 Other Organ 1 Meal of Hearts At least one Red Meat meal A minimum of 3 different proteins have yours tried any other protein but chicken? If not, we'll have to start introducing ones. Great job so far! :thumbsup:
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Post by brightstar on Aug 11, 2015 15:03:31 GMT -5
Not yet, no. Should I start introducing new proteins now, or do I keep trying to get them onto larger pieces of chicken?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 15:34:01 GMT -5
Yep, we want them familiar with as many proteins as possible. On frankenprey they need to eat at least 3 per week, preferably 4-5+. See if you can find (in muscle meat form) something like pork, turkey, beef, etc. Those are typically the easiest and cheapest to find and feed. Keep pushing the bigger pieces of chicken also, let me know when you pick up a new protein and we will introduce that. When you can, for a meal try cutting up half a meal of hearts and half a meal of liver, if they ate 18 oz per day altogether and they ate twice a day that'd be 4 oz heart and 4 oz liver, just for a meal, and see how they eat that. You'll have to watch them eat and make sure all of them are eating the appropriate amounts, we have a lot of ferts who will hover and not eat, who will just stash the food, or who will eat much less/slower. It is ideal to feed all ferrets separately, but understandable how it may not always be easy. For the organ/heart meals, if you can try to feed them from separate bowls/plates, to make sure everyone is getting what they need.
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Post by brightstar on Aug 12, 2015 17:30:37 GMT -5
I don't have enough hearts to feed them a full meal of hearts. I've ordered more from hare-today and should get that by next week. I've also ordered them some pork and beef - when that arrives next week, I'll let you know so we can get started on adding in the new proteins.
They all have different eating schedules, so trying to feed them individually would be difficult. I tried this with Moe a few weeks back (He is almost 14 weeks old and already eating mice and other raw foods) but he wouldn't eat his dinner when I took him from the others. Bear and Mel have both put on weight. Penny and Bianca are about the same, and Moe is growing to be gigantic(since he's still a baby). I'm confident that so far all of them are eating enough.
Whilst I'm waiting for the hearts, and other proteins to arrive, I'm working on getting them to eat bigger pieces of the chicken/heart/liver mix. Moe does like to stash mice, but none of them are stashing their chopped up meat. They can be messy and throw it out of the bowl, but overall they eat pretty much all that I give them each mealtime.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2015 17:57:09 GMT -5
Okay, once the hearts come in try them with a full meal of it. If you have enough liver/other organ, you can do a full meal of that and see how they do.
So you have a newbie kit, how cute! So you have Penny, Bear, Bianca, Mel and Moe. How old are all of yours? Since Moe is still a kit, he will eat A LOT. So make sure if he clears the plate, that you give him more. Some kits can eat up to 10 oz a day on their own while they are growing.
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Post by brightstar on Aug 14, 2015 15:14:39 GMT -5
Penny, Bear and Bianca are all estimated to be about 2 years. Mel is estimated at about 10 months.
The adults are all rescues, so it's difficult to be certain about their age and history. Bear and Bianca have awful teeth condition because their previous owner (they were owner surrender) fed them a diet mainly of duck soup. Penny and Mel were both strays, so we don't know anything about them.
Moe is 14 weeks 1 day. He is semi-angora. I got him from a breeder.
With the 9oz a meal I'm feeding them, there are usually two or three larger chunks of meat leftover. So I think I've gotten the balance about right. Before Moe joined the group, they were eating about 5oz daily. I think the raw has improved the appetite of my adults, but the majority of the food each day is probably being eaten by Moe.
Moe was fed FDR and raw since he was weaned. I try to give him a mouse in addition to the usual meal, because the others aren't interested in touching it. But Moe won't eat the mouse and just leaves it to rot and get smelly. He is being lazy and prefers the chicken since it's easier to eat. I tried feeding him away from the others so he doesn't eat their raw mix, but he refuses and gets really stressed (cage rage) when I try.
I've gotten the chicken sliver sizes a bit larger - they're about 2 inch x 1 inch now. I don't feel confident yet that all of them are comfortable eating the larger pieces (I still chop in small sized pieces as well) so I won't increase the size anymore until I'm happy they're all comfortable with what I'm giving them at the moment.
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