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Post by Celene on May 27, 2015 9:17:58 GMT -5
Basically I'm creating this thread as a way to track/log our diet journey Background: Nova has been having chronically bad poops for awhile. They're most often liquid-y, but sometimes grey, green, frothy/foamy, and just generally not nice. I tried increasing her bone amount but she just had large bone shards floating in liquid poop Also tried adding eggshell powder to muscle and organ meals with no improvement. No other signs (tooth grinding, bloody stools, etc) are present and energy level seems fine. Mocha will be joining the diet even though her poops are great since it can't hurt and if I give her different proteins I have no way to stop Nova from eating them during the day. Start date: May 26 Day OneProtein: Lamb Starting with a lamb CGR (Red Dog Blue Cat) since it's balanced and has lamb heart and livers. Even though they transitioned using this CGR and love lamb muscle meals, I have to retrain them to eat grinds. Nova made her first perfect poop in forever in the PM. Probably a fluke. Day TwoProtein: Lamb Woke up to gross messy poops. Not overly surprising considering they normally have lamb only once every 2 weeks. Mocha's still trying to resist eating it but she'll have to get used to it since that's all that's there for her!
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 10:03:53 GMT -5
I love that you created this thread. I'm very interested to follow along. Hurricanekatt was teaching me about the elimination diet with Julesalot. It will be helpful to see how yours progress. I also love how clear you write and explain everything.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 16:53:50 GMT -5
I do wish you the best of luck as i have changed my babies diet.
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Post by Sherry on May 27, 2015 18:52:46 GMT -5
Given her stools she does sound IBD. Have you done short term pred to reduce inflammation in the digestive tract first?
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Post by Celene on May 27, 2015 19:17:09 GMT -5
No, although I do happen to have pred in the closet. I was hoping to be able to control it without drugs since pred is rough on the kidneys. I do also have slippery elm powder but I know slippery elm syrup blocks the absorption of nutrients similar to vaseline. And while I'm here... Day Two (evening edition) Nova's poop is much more formed, but quite seedy!
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Post by Celene on May 28, 2015 19:31:22 GMT -5
Day 3 Poops are all nicely formed and generally "good" looking. I am feeding a meal of lamb chunks and marrow today so they don't forget how to chew actual pieces of meat (the grind is 20% heart so I'm at least covered for taurine but I don't think a single meal would ruin the balance anyway).
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Post by Celene on May 30, 2015 22:03:15 GMT -5
Update: Their poops have become very stable/consistent. The only thing I'm concerned about is the lamb grind I'm feeding them contains bateriophages which basically target and kill salmonella and listeria while leaving all the other "good" bacteria in tact. I'm assuming this is to appeal to the market share of pet owners wanting to feed a good diet but terrified/paranoid about raw meat making their pets sick. *ginormous eye roll* Anyway, they're apparently deactivated when freezing and are approved (for human use) by Health Canada/FDA/EFSA etc. so I'm not worried safety-wise, but I think it might be making them smell kind of like mushrooms. I'm planning on keeping them on the grind another day or two, then I will be introducing either quail or rabbit. The only part I'm worried about is maintaining balance while testing these since neither quail nor rabbit organs are readily available. I'm going to see if I can pick up some taurine powder tomorrow.
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Post by Blue on Jun 2, 2015 16:09:30 GMT -5
Would it be easier to find lamb organs/heart? You could use those to balance things out since you know that lamb is OK. Or maybe pick the next protein to test as one with organs more readily available, like pork? Beef? It's probably best not try chicken since it's one of the most common allergens. Actually, because of that, maybe fowl in general isn't the best either. Just some thoughts -- I started the elimination diet too a while back, but luckily everything cleared up after she'd been off antibiotics for a while.
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Post by Celene on Jun 2, 2015 17:41:32 GMT -5
Blue, the reason I chose to go with the grind in the first place is because I couldn't get lamb heart anywhere (although I did find plenty of lamb kidney for whatever reason). I figured out a long time ago that Nova does not do well at all with chicken, I've avoided cornish game hen for the same reason. Since you said the issues cleared up with antibiotics, was the issue a bacterial overload? I'm going with quail mostly because I really want them to get some real bone to chew on. Their breath is getting stinky and Mocha has started chewing her toys (which she never did except during the transition before we started bone). I was able to find taurine powder actually quite easily. Their first quail meal is actually tonight so hopefully they haven't forgotten how to eat bones! (I'm joking, they both freaking loooove bones and will even go around and eat up all the leftover shards.) I'm assuming (but not sure) that their poops will probably get funny at first because of the sudden change from all lamb to all quail, so I'll keep them on it a couple days unless it's really obviously not agreeing with Nova.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 21:27:55 GMT -5
I had to find my lamb kidney and lamb liver at farmer's market. It is not like they offer it all the time, either.
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Post by Blue on Jun 3, 2015 16:48:38 GMT -5
It's the other way around She was on antibiotics for helicobacter gastritis and her poops were black pudding, and I figured it was either ulcers, IBD, or allergies. I'd started the raw diet just a few days before starting the 3 week course of antibiotics so it was hard to tell what was contributing to what. About a week after stopping the antibiotics, her poops were much better. So I'm pretty sure it was the antibiotics, although the gastritis and the diet switch may have contributed. Either way, she's happily eating chicken now Sorry Nova can't do that, I hope the quail works for her!
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Post by Celene on Jun 3, 2015 19:48:57 GMT -5
Well, they've had two meals of quail so far and this is the poop I came home too: I "opened it up" with a qtip and it looks completely different on the inside: I'll give it another day, but I just wish I knew what to do! Several people have recommended giving probiotics, but I'm worried if the issue is a bacterial overload of some sort it could make it worse. :/
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 20:32:24 GMT -5
She may have trouble processing feathered protein.
Have you thought about some whole prey for her in the future-- like rats and mice?
Somebody more experienced in pooh may have an explanation.
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Post by Celene on Jun 5, 2015 10:54:08 GMT -5
abbeytheferret6, I know I'll almost certainly need to go the whole prey route, but I'm rather scared - I think I'm too squeamish to touch a mouse or rat, let alone gut one! So, after a couple days on quail, Nova's poops aren't terribly (seedy or crazy colours) but they're still on the softer/liquidier side. Sherry, do you know if I need to go back to the base protein (lamb) for a few days before trying the next protein, or can I go straight to it?
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Post by Sherry on Jun 5, 2015 17:53:25 GMT -5
Keep her on the quail for at least a week and keep recording her stools. Once that is done, if stools are still fairly good, then go to a new one. Otherwise back to lamb to stabilize
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