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Post by nicdex on Apr 16, 2015 18:25:44 GMT -5
Hi, i own 3 ferrets one hob and two jills and the jills are both in heat as it can be seen from their swollen vulva.so i decided to breed them they are not related and i already have good homes for the kids (most of them i will keep ). yet it is the first time i am doing this i bred my first jill about two weeks ago with my male albino i left them together for about a week and seen them mating multiple times and yet after 2 weeks the jill's vulva hasnt come back to normal. is that normal maybe some jills take more time for their vulva to shrink or may she still be in heat? that is my biggest question but any breeding tips and advice from the experts will be appreciated
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 18:49:00 GMT -5
I'm in the States and not a breeder. I'll tag Heather and nancyl for you. They are both breeders and very experienced, so they should have some answers for you.
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Post by nancyl on Apr 16, 2015 18:57:49 GMT -5
How long was she in heat before you put her with the hob? The longer they're in before mating the harder it is to get them out. They generally don't go down completely when they're pregnant. There will still be a little swelling. So, without knowing how she compares to pre-breeding it's a little hard to say what's going on.
Also, if the hob did not tie her (they tie like dogs) she was likely not stimulated enough to ovulate. Kailen tied Dara somewhere between 1 1/2 and 2 hours. I did not leave them together after they broke. So, she was only bred the one time. We are now at 2 weeks and she's starting to round out a little. I hope this doesn't mean a huge litter but her mama had 9 and Gramma Cybill had a litter of 13 the last time, so genetics are against me.
If she's still as big as she was I'd try them again and watch to make sure they get a good tie. If she's no longer in heat he probably won't even try to breed her and she'll kick his butt 8 ways to Sunday.
Forgot to say that if the jill hasn't been in heat long enough when she's bred she won't have mature follicles and thus won't ovulate. Somewhere around 2 weeks from when they start to swell in usually good but there are some lines (and the polecat hybrids seem to be among them) that require more time. Sometimes 3 to 4 weeks.
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Post by nicdex on Apr 16, 2015 19:25:52 GMT -5
well i adopted her like three weeks ago and she was already in heat. yes they 'hooked' together multiple times and i left her with the male until he didnt even bother to try mating with her again. after days of hooking together for like 2 hours as you mentioned they just sleep near each other but arent mating anymore.i am not sure if her vulva was bigger what i am sure of i have another jill that i still didnt put with the male and her vulva is way much bigger than the one i already mated. i am concerned because many threads on the internet say that in two weeks after copulation the vulva should be completely back to normal and hers is still swollen after two weeks being today.it is my first time i am breeding and i want to do things right i dont want none of them to get sick because they havent been mated.
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Post by nicdex on Apr 16, 2015 19:34:26 GMT -5
so lets say she has been in heat for very long before i adopted her does that mean my male didnt put her out of heat yet? or it just takes more time for her vulva to be back to normal?
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Post by nicdex on Apr 16, 2015 19:39:30 GMT -5
this is her vulva 2 weeks after breeding her by the way
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 20:31:58 GMT -5
A vet can easily give them a hormone shot to safely bring them out of heat. Breeding isn't needed.
How much do you know about these Jill's? Do they or the job carry and genetic issues, including recessive to recessive? I've seen some problems bred into lines. I have a pair that someone was trying to breed. Both parents ended up with cataracts by the time they were a year old. I'm so glad the breeding didn't take. The male is now a permanent resident at the rescue.
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Post by nancyl on Apr 16, 2015 21:33:10 GMT -5
She's still pretty darn swollen but if she's smaller than the other jill who hasn't been bred yet, she may just be staying up longer since you don't know how long she'd been in when you got her. I think I'd maybe give her another week and then I'd be talking to a vet about a shot.
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Post by nicdex on Apr 17, 2015 3:03:56 GMT -5
thanks will follow your advice. for some reason the other jill is biting her neck continiously i have to stop her all the time will that be cause they are in heat? or will they have to live separated? i have a big cage enough for two i dont want to have to separate them. another doubt is will it be ok to put two females with a male to breed or its better put them one by one ?
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Post by RedSky on Apr 17, 2015 8:28:23 GMT -5
I know you said you have homes lined up, and want to keep some kits for yourself. But I'm a little confused as to the reason to breed these three. You seem very new to all of this, maybe it would be better to just start with 1? I'd get in touch with the breeder of your ferrets for advice, they can tell you about genetics and risks, plus they will know your guys much better. If they haven't already been, then I'd take them to the vets for a general once over too, just to make sure they are healthy before starting. No idea what tests, if any, should be done. Never intentionally bred anything, brought home pregnant small furries before but that where my experience ends.
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Post by nicdex on Apr 17, 2015 9:16:50 GMT -5
well maybe cause i am a bit against anything that is unatural i may be wrong but i beleive that nature wants mammals to breed not be neutered or anything. even tough i wish they have kids my only concern is that they get out of heat and live a long healthy life. but knowing myself i never have enough and will surely adopt more ferrets when i see advertised so why dont have my own ones from parents that i really love? i am new to this as any experienced breeder was the first time its true but i want to make things right without harming these lovely little creatures in any way thats why i searched for help here. regard genetic disorders as far as i know they dont have what bothers me is that one of the females is a bit smallish dont want her to have problems with pregnancy
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Post by RedSky on Apr 17, 2015 9:29:21 GMT -5
Fair enough, that's you opinion. Mine is a little different in terms of I think there are more than enough ferrets out there (local rescue has 70+ ferrets all the time, constantly rehoming and getting new ferrets every week), local RSPCA always has a few too. To me the risks of breeding are also too great. Oh and I also get super attached... hehe bought 2 female guinea pigs in my early teens (with my mum of course), did research, learnt to sex them myself as I knew pet shops weren't always trained. Both had 3 babies each. I was distraught at the thought of having to part with them, couldn't sleep, was actually quite ill. My parents been the softies they are let me keep all 8 guinea pigs (2 mums and 6 babies). I was so happy.
Anyway, back to the point instead of rambling. Yes, everyone has to start somewhere. I'm just a little concerned that you might be trying to learn by doing rather than knowing first. I think, again just my opinion, but the best way to learn would be to work with a breeder, even if you have to do if from a distance. Get to know a breeder, their ferrets, what they have done to make things go smooth, how they put the male and female together, what they do with the jill and when, what they do with the babies, what vet care they need before, during and after pregnancy. Then you could breed you own with the breeder supporting you, so you sort of know the basics and have seen it all (even just by pictures, video chat and by reading the experiences) but the experienced breeder could be overlooking every step, reminding you of things and could notice problems you weren't even aware of.
Obviously I have no idea at all, not something I have looked into. My three were from a rescue, already neutered, and the rescue is just a phone call away ready to help and advise as needed. And if you can't tell I'm a bit of a stress head, over emotional and I'm at the vets weekly if not more often with my lot... Clearly I need a calmaid or something... hehe
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Post by nicdex on Apr 17, 2015 10:37:28 GMT -5
well where i live there arent ferret shelters when someone wants their ferret to be adopted the just do an advert and there arent much cause they rather sell them. they cost about 30 euros and most of the breeders i know unfortunatley do this just for money and arent so helpful. when i bought my first ferret it was a baby still with eyes closed the breeder told me give her eggs ham and anything to eat. i was like did ur mom fed you like this when you still was a baby? then i did some research bought a bottle and kitten milk used to rub her back after eating to help her defecate and i had no problems at all. but doing as he said the poor ferret wouldnt have survived. now we'll see if they remain in heat or i have any problem they gave me a name of a really good vet that studied exotic pets. thanks for all the good advice
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Post by Heather on Apr 17, 2015 18:28:18 GMT -5
Have you thought of getting a V-hob to service your little jills. If you turn your hob into a v-hob then the girls won't need to have kits every summer (endangering their lives and creating more kits than you need) and you won't have to use chemicals to bring them out. This will allow you to have intact ferrets, keeping them natural and keep them without creating kits. I use a v-hob with my girls as I will not breed more than twice in their lifetime. The more often they have kits, the more you risk their lives it's very, very hard on them to produce kits annually. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 20:16:31 GMT -5
P.s. HCG is the hormone my vet used to pull a Jill out of heat. It is a natural hormone and it worked great. Many health improvements.
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