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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2015 22:44:51 GMT -5
Some people actually use hare today. It comes in as a grind, I think? I've never ordered from them before, but I can ask the other mentors to see who orders from them. They sell whole prey meals and raw meats. From quick glance at their website, the grinds that I saw were the meat, organs and bones all together. So that would be considered a whole prey meal. It's completely up to you if you want to take this route. The meal would be completely balanced (fine ground with the bone, heart, liver, and gizzards). I cannot find an analysis to see if there's enough taurine in the ground meals. It actually doesn't mention it as well. I would email them should you want to feed this. Taurine is highly needed in a balanced diet. It's mainly found in hearts and blood-rich organs such as the brain, the lungs, and dark meat (turkey thighs).
Wysong treat, yes he can have the dream treats. They come in 3 different proteins: Chicken, quail, and rabbit. Those are fine to give as treats. =)
If he's not a fan of the beef, add maybe a few drops of oil in there? If not, feed it less?
As far as adding eggshells to his meals, yes! I thought I had mentioned that in a previous post. Since he's not getting bones, he needs calcium so please do add eggshells to his meat and it would count as a bone-in meal.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2015 21:25:31 GMT -5
Thanks. I have beef in the minor rotation now. I added salmon oil to it and he licked it but left much of it on the plate. Acted like he was gaging a bit but didn't regurgitate any of it. Also didn't have icky poo so I think he might have had a hair or something in his throat. I am interested in the Hare Today grinds mostly for a bit of something new that it hard to get in the markets here but also to have something in hand to replace the Stella's for times when it's harder to cut and prepare meats from the market, or if the meal I thought would defrost overnight didn't.
I did add some egg shells to the pork tonight. I knew you mentioned it should be added but I wasn't sure if that would qualify as bone-in. I was hoping to pick up hearts this weekend. My whole foods said they were supposed to get a shipment on Saturday but they didn't get any. So, we have pork, beef (not too frequent now), turkey and I have lamb rad cat and quail eggs. I"m going to check out Sprouts for some other options (the store I got the hen from didn't have any). Also, we have frozen chicken feet for when Alvin is ready. I think those are considered more of a snack?
We have liver portioned out for the week, I need to get the hearts this week (fortunately that store is within walking distance from my work so I can keep bugging them). I"m adding eggshell to some of his muscle meats.
Here's what I noticed about the example menu:
each day had at least one bone-in meal. One day had two bone-in meals and there were two days with a muscle meat, one meal of hearts and one meal with organs plus egg-shell. We were shooting for 8 bone in meals for Alvin and the example was missing one meal of hearts.
Question about egg shells. I have eggshells that have been sitting in the kitchen window (dry) for a very long time now. Are those okay to use or could they have gone bad somehow? The window gets full sun each morning.
I need to write up a full menu for you. I used last week to see what I'm capable of doing (bones) and what Alvin likes to eat and the size of slivers.
Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2015 14:35:57 GMT -5
Thanks. I have beef in the minor rotation now. I added salmon oil to it and he licked it but left much of it on the plate. Acted like he was gaging a bit but didn't regurgitate any of it. Also didn't have icky poo so I think he might have had a hair or something in his throat. I am interested in the Hare Today grinds mostly for a bit of something new that it hard to get in the markets here but also to have something in hand to replace the Stella's for times when it's harder to cut and prepare meats from the market, or if the meal I thought would defrost overnight didn't.
That's fine. If you'd like to feed him haretoday grinds, that's fine as well. They do have a wider selection. They also sell the meat as well so you can chop them up at home I believe. It does count as frankenprey but, all given at once instead of on separate meals as we've been discussing with the menu.
I did add some egg shells to the pork tonight. I knew you mentioned it should be added but I wasn't sure if that would qualify as bone-in. I was hoping to pick up hearts this weekend. My whole foods said they were supposed to get a shipment on Saturday but they didn't get any. So, we have pork, beef (not too frequent now), turkey and I have lamb rad cat and quail eggs. I"m going to check out Sprouts for some other options (the store I got the hen from didn't have any). Also, we have frozen chicken feet for when Alvin is ready. I think those are considered more of a snack? We have liver portioned out for the week, I need to get the hearts this week
Eggshells and meats do counts as bone in since it's muscle plus the calcium. Not as efficient as it is with real bones because bones scrub the teeth clean while when feeding grinds, he'll need to have his teeth brushed. Let me know how the hunt goes for hearts =)
The chicken feet IF added to muscle meat can also count as a bone-in meal. If fed just as feet, it's a snack.
Here's what I noticed about the example menu:
each day had at least one bone-in meal. One day had two bone-in meals and there were two days with a muscle meat, one meal of hearts and one meal with organs plus egg-shell. We were shooting for 8 bone in meals for Alvin and the example was missing one meal of hearts.
I don't know how many bone-in meals Alvin needs. The number 8 came from my example. I said this particular ferret needed 8 meals, so let's say he's similar to Alvin. The bone-in meals varies by ferret. Remember: too much bone = Dry stools, Back off 1 bone in meal; Too wet = not enough bone-in meals, add a bone-in meal. It all depends on his stools. If at 7 bone-in meals his stool look normal, he's getting the appropriate amount of calcium that he needs. In the example, the picture was an unfinished menu. I was using it to help you see how a menu is planned and also showing you what was missing based on the basic layout of a menu (7-9 bone in meals, 1.5 heart meals, 1.5 liver/ other organ, etc.). Back to the stools for a second, if he's doing fine with 8 bone-in meals then keep it at 8 bone-in meals. If not, remove or add. Remember 7-9 bone-in meals depending on Alvin's poops.
Question about egg shells. I have eggshells that have been sitting in the kitchen window (dry) for a very long time now. Are those okay to use or could they have gone bad somehow? The window gets full sun each morning.
I need to write up a full menu for you. I used last week to see what I'm capable of doing (bones) and what Alvin likes to eat and the size of slivers.
Keeping them out drying should be fine. Some people wash and dry them and keep them stored until they need to grind them up. As long as it has no mold growing inside, which is rare, it should be fine.
Let me know when that (last wks )menu is ready! I have an idea but some days you didnt write how much he ate. Seems like he's eating about 2.8-3.3 oz of muscle meat. Thats' not bad, My boys were little piggies and eat 4oz a day lol. It all depends on the fert. There's no set oz required for a ferret to eat.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 22:51:01 GMT -5
Hi Jocie. I am sorry I haven't responded sooner. I've been so busy with Alvin and Colby-cat I haven't had a lot of time. I went back to the place where I have been getting hearts and they were supposed to come in today. I didn't have the car today so I will check tomorrow. I did go to another organic store last night and I got Alvin pork, quail, and, calf liver. I noticed that Alvin has had more energy when he doesn't eat chicken so I will try to do other meats as much as possible. I will try to write more details tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 14:04:01 GMT -5
I was starting to worry a bit but people get busy so it happens. No worries. 
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 17:37:48 GMT -5
The hearts have not come in so I contacted a butcher shop nearby and will order from Hare Today if I can't get them locally. What other things should I order if I go through Hare Today (want to make the most of the shipping charges). I would like to get Alvin off chicken if possible. Not sure if his stomach bothers him with it but I have noticed he has more energy if he does not have chicken. I'm excited to try the quail. He loves hen and I'm wondering if Alvin will try the quail bones.
Alvin's stool has been a bit firm and I haven't given him the eggshell powder in a few days now. I got sick on Monday and went back to stella's in the morning. His stool is softer now. I was giving him a 1/8th top of eggshell powder in a 4 oz plate of pork and Alvin only ate half of it in the morning and ate the rest for dinner. That was before we started the stella's again. He had an ounce of chicken liver last night and he loved it. We got calf liver the other night to try as well. Pork is on the menu for tonight and the quail tomorrow.
I bought a notebook for Alvin so I don't have to keep track of loose paper. That should help my organization.
Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 20:27:47 GMT -5
The hearts have not come in so I contacted a butcher shop nearby and will order from Hare Today if I can't get them locally. What other things should I order if I go through Hare Today (want to make the most of the shipping charges). I would like to get Alvin off chicken if possible. Not sure if his stomach bothers him with it but I have noticed he has more energy if he does not have chicken. I'm excited to try the quail. He loves hen and I'm wondering if Alvin will try the quail bones.
Poop, That sucks about the hearts. Did you try the asian market? I can't remember if they had them as well. I'm not sure what you can order from hare today. That's entirely up to you. If he's not doing good on chicken, let's stop chicken and maybe get lamb and the other meats he's currently on. Glad that he likes hen and hope he likes the quail as well!
Alvin's stool has been a bit firm and I haven't given him the eggshell powder in a few days now. I got sick on Monday and went back to stella's in the morning. His stool is softer now. I was giving him a 1/8th top of eggshell powder in a 4 oz plate of pork and Alvin only ate half of it in the morning and ate the rest for dinner. That was before we started the stella's again. He had an ounce of chicken liver last night and he loved it. We got calf liver the other night to try as well. Pork is on the menu for tonight and the quail tomorrow
A bit firm? Too firm? Take a picture if it happens again. Glad he loves the liver! That's great! Remember the stool after an organ meal could be a little on the soft side which is why we tell ferrents to add a bit of eggshells to firm up the stools. Let me know how the quail goes!
I bought a notebook for Alvin so I don't have to keep track of loose paper. That should help my organization.
That's great! Still waiting on a menu on what alvin had last week. I can help if you need the help =) No rush lol
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 8:40:02 GMT -5
I was really bad last week. With not getting any sleep and Alvin refusing to eat the turkey I had (I think it was too mushy) I went back to the FDR. He is now getting the full raw, I'm finally sleeping and have a freezer full of good food. He loved the quail! I got him to play with one of the wing tips. I need to get a good cleaver to break down the bone. The Asian market we went to did not have hearts. I can try a different one as none of the other stores nearby carry the hearts. I know it's imporTanti so I will order some today from Hare today. They have a lot of grounds that include meat, organs and bone. Should I try some of those or would you like to see more details so we can figure out the amount of bone and organs?
I have weights of alvin's meals from yesterday but I need to do the math. All pork with water and a little bit of babyfood. He did have liver last week so that is up on alvins menu for wednesday. I will work on this today.
Eta:
Just got back from a different Asian market and have some new stuff (and some cheap favorites!).
Venison flank steak
Hen
Quail
Chicken hearts
Pork kidney
I will work on the menu for the upcoming week this afternoon!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 17:11:45 GMT -5
From what I heard, haretoday is now giving the percents on bones, organs, meat? I'm not sure since I've never used them. I figured he was doing good on small slivers so, we're back to grinds? I'm confused on the why =/
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 18:51:11 GMT -5
I was considering the grinds only in the event I can't get actual bone into Alvin's diet. I'm going to try the restaurant supply store tomorrow to see if I can get a good cleaver. Hopefully that makes it easier for me to break the wings down more so Alvin gets a good chance to try bone.
He loves quail, hen and pork. Are these proteins different enough? If so, I plan on the following menu this coming week (money through sunday). I will have to play around with the eggshell or bone amounts until I figure out what he needs. How does this sound?
Monday:
AM pork plus eggshell
PM pork
Tuesday:
AM quail
PM quail (eggshell or bone)
Wednesday:
AM liver plus eggshell with kidney (will have to see if Alvin will eat kidney so leftovers will be mixed with dinew if he gets ornery with kidney)
PM heart
Thursday:
AM liver/kidney with eggshell plus heart
PM beef
Friday:
AM quail with bone or eggshell
PM quail
Saturday:
AM pork with eggshell
PM pork with eggshell
Sunday:
AM hen with bone or eggshell
PM hen with bone or eggshell
From my count this is 7 bone-in meals, 4 muscle meat meals, 1.5 heart and 1.5 organ (kidney plus liver).
Did I do that right? I think the bone will have to replace e eggshell soon and the number of bone meals can increase depending on Alvin's tolerance (measured by firmness or looseness of poops)?
I may leave some rehydrated stella's during the day but I would prefer to get him on Franken prey most meals. Reserve stella meals for special cases.
How many hearts should I try as a meal?
Alvin seems to be eating about 2 ounces at each meal. That includes some water and a very small amount of baby food but he is eating small slivers. He hides larger pieces.
Saturday he ate 2 oz of leftover stellas, pork and hen to use the last of the meats from previous week (morning) then 3 oz pork (water and babyfood added in small quantity). PM
This morning he ate 1.5 Oz quail and played with the wing til. He got .3 oz quail as snack (didn't eat much at breakfast and he was going to a ferret party so I wanted his belly to have some food in it). He got some lamb rehydrated snack pieces with water and baby food mixed to a gruel as an after party snack. My goal with pre and post snacks is to keep his sugars stabilized. He got sick after his last party which was probably his undiagnosed insulinoma. For dinner I will give him the last of the quail.
I posted pics of Alvin at the party on FB but I will try to get them posted here as well.
Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 7:34:50 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 7:22:01 GMT -5
Alvin had a lot of mucusy diarrhea last night and he is showings signs of an upset stomach. He was fine last night and I'm thinking he may not have eaten enough when I gave him his prednisone. I gave him Stella's this morning instead of the quail to ease his stomach. He tried a few pieces of pork this morning but he had no interest in chewing. I didn't want to push it this morning so Stella's it was. He had eggshell yesterday morning and his poops through evening bedtime were fine. Poor boy! He is getting lots of hugs this morning!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 14:00:43 GMT -5
I was considering the grinds only in the event I can't get actual bone into Alvin's diet. I'm going to try the restaurant supply store tomorrow to see if I can get a good cleaver. Hopefully that makes it easier for me to break the wings down more so Alvin gets a good chance to try bone.
He loves quail, hen and pork. Are these proteins different enough? If so, I plan on the following menu this coming week (money through sunday). I will have to play around with the eggshell or bone amounts until I figure out what he needs. How does this sound?
Generally, 3 sources of protein is bare minimum so you're good here. Others add more for variety but it's completely up to you really. Sounds good though!
The menu!!
Monday:
AM pork plus eggshell
PM pork
Tuesday:
AM quail
PM quail (eggshell or bone)
Wednesday:
AM liver plus eggshell with kidney (will have to see if Alvin will eat kidney so leftovers will be mixed with dinew if he gets ornery with kidney)
PM heart
Thursday:
AM liver/kidney with eggshell plus heart
PM beef
Friday:
AM quail with bone or eggshell
PM quail
Saturday:
AM pork with eggshell
PM pork with eggshell
Sunday:
AM hen with bone or eggshell
PM hen with bone or eggshell
From my count this is 7 bone-in meals, 4 muscle meat meals, 1.5 heart and 1.5 organ (kidney plus liver).
This looks great by the way! I have a few suggestions though. The hearts and organ meals could be spaced out so they're not all bunched up midweek. Maybe do:
Monday AM: Hearts
Wednesday AM: Keep as is
Friday: 1/2 Hearts; 1/2 Organs (Liver and Kidneys)
If you can so they're evenly spaced out and you dont get back to back funky organ poops. lol. Another thing, is there a reason why you're doing the same protein each day. Like Friday is quail with eggshells and then quail just the meat. Just wondering lol, sometimes people get fancy and do chicken in the day and turkey at night so they don't get bored with what they're getting. But if you want to do that, it's fine as well.
Did I do that right? I think the bone will have to replace e eggshell soon and the number of bone meals can increase depending on Alvin's tolerance (measured by firmness or looseness of poops)?
Yes you did do it right! I hope that he takes bones easily since he did chew ona wing for a bit. And yes, the bone meals can increase (upto 9) depending on his stools.
I may leave some rehydrated stella's during the day but I would prefer to get him on Franken prey most meals. Reserve stella meals for special cases.
How many hearts should I try as a meal?
How many hearts? That depends on him. You said he's eating about 2 oz a meal so try about 2 oz of hearts and see how that goes. If he eats less then reduce accordingly
This morning he ate 1.5 Oz quail and played with the wing til. He got .3 oz quail as snack (didn't eat much at breakfast and he was going to a ferret party so I wanted his belly to have some food in it). He got some lamb rehydrated snack pieces with water and baby food mixed to a gruel as an after party snack. My goal with pre and post snacks is to keep his sugars stabilized. He got sick after his last party which was probably his undiagnosed insulinoma.
I'm glad he's showing interest on the bones! That's baby steps onto eating bones so I hope you're getting that cleaver soon. =) Snacks are fine, especially for insulinomic ferts. Remember to always keep food available for him in between meals, but I'm sure you're doing this already.
Love the ferret part pictures. Looks like he had fun! I think I saw these pictures on the fb page! I was there thinking how I love the colored paper dig box! Lol
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 14:07:02 GMT -5
Alvin had a lot of mucusy diarrhea last night and he is showings signs of an upset stomach. He was fine last night and I'm thinking he may not have eaten enough when I gave him his prednisone.
=( No. Poor baby. Yesterday he had, pork? I'm going by the menu. How much eggshell did you add on? the 1/8 tsp? When he had pork before, his stools were normal, correct?
I gave him Stella's this morning instead of the quail to ease his stomach. He tried a few pieces of pork this morning but he had no interest in chewing. I didn't want to push it this morning so Stella's it was.
That's fine, gosh... I hope his BG wasn't low. If it was, you might want to consider 2 snacks in between each meal. He'd get breakfast, then maybe 6 hrs later he gets a snack then dinner then 6 hrs later another snack? If you can. I fed mine every 6 hrs, full meals because their insu was bad =/
He had eggshell yesterday morning and his poops through evening bedtime were fine. Poor boy! He is getting lots of hugs this morning!
=( I wonder why his poops changed over night. Keep me updated for sure. Worried aobut Alvin over here.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 17:39:14 GMT -5
Oh me too, and now I'm sick so I"m really hoping it's not helicobactor. I've been leaving snacks and stellar out for him during the day so he has food available, but he's choosing not to eat them. Ugh. I may have to start extending my lunch breaks from work so I can come home to feed him. I've been doing the same protein in a day just for my own sanity. If it's best to offer him different meals in the am and pm I will do that. So, I'm off to contact the vet and my doctor. I'll keep you posted! Thanks.
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