Shawna
Junior Member
Posts: 111
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Post by Shawna on Aug 11, 2015 0:02:20 GMT -5
I have to admit that I've been cheating big time in their food prep
I'll take either Cornish game hens &/or chicken wings/drumsticks & run them, meat & bone through a meat grinder under a course setting.
I'll do the same for chicken hearts, liver, pork kidney, duck gizzard.
I buy pre ground lamb that has 15-20% fat in it as well
I scoop the meats & chicken/bone in 2oz cups as well as doing the heart/organ mixture that's on page 8 & through them in the freezer.
Both Zim & Dexter are eating more. They are both eating approx 4 oz each (give or take)
Zim had lost a lot of his under coat & was looking a little bald for awhile, especially around his tail but his fur is growing back & rather quickly too I might add.
For treats, I'll grab a frozen chicken heart & cut it into chunks & give it to them frozen & they like to nibble on those. Sometimes I'll set them on my bed & hand a piece to 'em. periodically one will grab a piece & run off my bed to a corner. Those long slinky bodies can be hard to nab sometimes, especially with softer fur (salmon oil definitely helps in that department).
I try to brush their teeth at least once a week but I'd like to do it 3x or every other day. Just for all around good dental health. (so they can show off them pearly whites) & especially when somebody calls them rats or rodents, which I will promptly show them their teeth and ask... "do these look like the teeth of a rat? or any other rodent for that matter?"
Oh gee those look like a cat's teeth or even a dog!!!
Why yes! yes they do!
They are predators... They kill rats.
(well not my boys any way)
big eyes shock silence mouths that look like little "o's"
um? what do they eat?
.... YOU! muah ha ha ha Grrrrrr arrrrr. Small animals.. These guys though don't. Well they kinda do. I make their food. But I don't cook it. They wouldn't be able to so I don't either.
little "o" mouths again.
It's amazing how much attention they draw when I take them places. & I take w/ me just about every where & just about all the time. They draw kids like magnets. I think I need to buy myself some hand wipes & sanitizer. Kids are so messy & dirty & don't know how to wash their hands & then they want to hold, pet, kiss & get all their little germs all over them.
I've caught bronchitis from one of my ferrets once so I don't want them catching any bugs from those little germ magnets. Wonder if there are any ferret sized gas masks I could get. Chortle I just pictured that.. oo oo & a hazmat suit... hmmm I sense a Halloween costume....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 8:06:49 GMT -5
Sounds like they're doing pretty good, how big are the chunks from the meat grinder? (like the size of your thumb, a quarter, a penny, etc). Are you looking to switch yours to frankenprey or keep them on a coarse grind? I think it's so funny when people ask me things like, "what does your ferret eat?" and I try to explain it to them, some people are genuinely curious and eager to learn, some people just kinda say, "oh, okay" and then there are those who look at you with those "I think I've encountered a serial killer" eyes and slowly step away.
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Shawna
Junior Member
Posts: 111
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Post by Shawna on Aug 12, 2015 17:52:51 GMT -5
I'd say they're like nickel-ish? or pea-ish?
They'll be on the course grind for the time being. It doesn't take as long for me to prep compared to cutting up their food.
I know I'll NEVER get to the point of giving them whole prey let alone live.
I used to have rats as pets & would find it very difficult to do.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2015 18:02:35 GMT -5
That's a fair size, while grinds aren't always ideal for permanent diet, they are MUCH better than soup. My two are on grinds also. Do you want to eventually get them on frankenprey, or are you undecided at this point? A lot of people use grinds as a switching tool, some wish to keep it as their permanent diet. Let us know, depending on your goals for them dictates when we can get you graduated. I also don't think I could ever do live prey, it's the fact that if I needed to intervene, I don't think I could, and all in all if something went bad the ending wouldn't be well. I could feed all whole prey (dead), but I can't afford it, at least not right now. We all have to do what is best for them, but also while taking into consideration what we ourselves can handle.
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Shawna
Junior Member
Posts: 111
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Post by Shawna on Aug 12, 2015 23:26:11 GMT -5
I'm strongly leaning on keeping them on the course grind, using the Frankenprey menu which has basically been:
Sun- Cornish Hen bone in & Heart/Organ Mon- CH bone in & lamb muscle w/ a quail egg/shell Tue- CH bone in & Heart/Organ Wed- CH bone in x2 Thr- CH bone in & duck gizzard w/ a quail egg/shell Fri- CH bone in & Heart/Organ Sat- CH bone in x2
I feed them each both am & pm together ea serving in 2oz cups
I use 2 ice blocks wrapped in a kitchen towel to keep them from biting them & change out the blocks every 4-6 hrs
The Heart/Organ mix is 2ox heart 1 oz liver 1 oz kidney mixed up & divided into the 2oz cups
I'll also give them a squirt of salmon oil each every 2-3 days & I'll cut up a frozen chicken heart as a treat & hand feed those most especially to Zim. She wants him to have a little more taurine in his diet at the moment.
Thinking about it, I don't foresee changing from the course grind. I actually wish my grinder could make it a little more course but ah well. They get some jaw exercise on the heart pieces I give them for their treats.
Their fur is so super soft. I just wanna use them as furry (yet slightly squiggly) neck warmers. They especially like my hoody. They like to nose through my hair (at least its short & I cant lose them in there & get tangled up. Even if they do try)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 8:21:46 GMT -5
Okay, as long as you're following the basic requirements then they're good For balanced grinds the amounts should be along the lines of this- 75% meat 15% bone 10% organ [ie: liver, pancreas, kidney] When you can, try to pick up some more variety of bone-in, chicken wings, quail, pheasant, rabbit, etc. The more variety the better, just rotate it out every day/other day or so. I also love that raw fed fur, my Vet always compliments my two on their fur/weight/temperament. Plus they have that kool-aid grape tail smell, and that's just downright cool.
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Shawna
Junior Member
Posts: 111
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Post by Shawna on Aug 16, 2015 3:07:08 GMT -5
Rabbit is downright expensive! & very hard for me to find when I do find it. Half a rabbit was $10! (or something like it.. I wonder if my grinder can handle rabbit bone? It does fine for chicken & Cornish hens
I'm sure quail will be fine too but that Is also expensive to get a hold of as well.
I really wish that there was a place like hare-today.com on the west coast. Specifically the Northwest!!! Probably be more expensive though.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 18:35:10 GMT -5
I checked shipping, for you the cost of shipping for a Hare Today order would be about $30. It would take 4 days, so you would have to order extra ice packs but they are only $1 each. That's not bad at all for shipping, I'm in Tennessee and I pay $20. I get mines food from HareToday, with 17 pounds and 2 days being on a truck only a thin layer on the outside of the meat was starting to thaw, it was still too frozen to cut into. That was without extra ice packs. I'd definitely consider placing an order. But it's best to order at least 4-6 weeks worth, at first since I was doing new proteins they'd never had I order 5 weeks worth and had 3 new proteins to try. My second order I also got 3 new proteins and ordered 9-10+ weeks worth. Don't order new proteins in bulk, as if they have an allergy to it or hate it, you're stuck with however much you got. I got 2lbs max of new stuff.
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Shawna
Junior Member
Posts: 111
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Post by Shawna on Aug 18, 2015 19:15:13 GMT -5
Hey I need help on a completely separate matter all together & I have no idea on where it should be posted for the most visibility: I have found a weekly dietary requirements list for a dog but I need help setting up a frankenprey menu for her. it is 75% muscle 10% bone 10-15 organ of which 5% is liver 5% fruits/veges she weighs 22.8 lbs & needs to weigh 19 I intend on feeding her: 22lb - 9oz daily 21lb - 8.5 20lb - 8 19lb - 7.5 I need to figure out the organ percentage based on the meal amounts & the weekly menu. Like my menu of (each meal is 2oz) SUN-bone in & heart/organ (1oz heart 1/2oz liver 1/2oz kidney) MON-bone in & muscle- lamb TUE-bone in & heart/organ WED-bone in & bone in THU-bone in & muscle- duck gizzard FRI-bone in & heart/organ SAT-bone in & bone in so boiling down... I want to duplicate this but for the dog & at the different daily serving amounts that she will go through. inconvenient note (sarcasm intended) the dog is allergic to chicken... I wonder if I can cut away the chicken from the bones & just give her the bones? Wonder if she'd be allergic to the bone (assuming that I can strip most of the meat off of it) I hope that made sense. I soooo need help. Please please pretty please
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2015 20:58:59 GMT -5
First, dogs don't need fruits and veggies, it's a decision you can make whether or not you want to feed them. There is nothing wrong with feeding 5% of them, but there is also nothing wrong with feeding 100% meat. For dogs, if you want to get her down to 19lbs then you feed her 2% of her IDEAL weight. so start out feeding her about 6 ounces per day and see how she does. If she drops weight too quickly or too much, increase to 7.0 or 7.5 ounces per day. Dogs do not NEED as much taurine as ferrets and cats, but I find it easier to follow the same menu with dogs as we do with ferrets, just with a little less bone. So on your menu, decrease the amount of bone, she'll probably only need 4-6 meals of bone-in per week. Just go by her poops, you'll want to give her more bone at first, her starting raw meals should be all bone-in for a few days or else you'll get cannon butt, lol. Other than the bone, follow it as you would ferrets. Here is requirements for dogs- 4-7 Bone-in Meals 4-5 Muscle Meals (remember, heart is a muscle) Half Liver & Half Other Organ Half Heart, 1/4 Liver and 1/4 Other Organ 1 Meal of Hearts (not required, but can't hurt) 60% of their meats should be Red Meat A minimum of 3 different proteins As for the chicken bones, you cannot feed bones without meat on them as a meal, plus it can be risky (chipping teeth) but I definitely wouldn't give her any chicken bones at all, don't want to risk an allergic reaction/diarrhea.
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Shawna
Junior Member
Posts: 111
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Post by Shawna on Aug 19, 2015 0:52:59 GMT -5
JulesalotHave I mentioned how much I wants to hug you? Thank you! I plan on going with my roommate to her vet appointment so that we can confirm approval of her change in diet. She wants me to be the one to talk to her vet about it since I'm more knowledgeable about the raw diet & its all my fault for getting her interested too! : : I'm also the one that did all the research. You know? thinking back to when I was a kid, I've always felt that I didn't have strong research skills but apparently I've gotten better. Thank God for the internet... & the holistic ferret forum.. I found other sites that helped out some but your info was the icing on the cake that I was desperately trying to work out. I'm so excited about all the info I've gathered for her vet to review. I can't wait to help her go shopping & prep the food. I'll be the one doing it for her.. (she's partially disabled & isn't able to stand for long). Since I do the ferrets I might as well incorporate Mia's into my prep time as well. I'll have to be dang careful to wash everything & not mix any of the chicken with her food prep.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2015 1:42:33 GMT -5
Haha I'm happy to help, I struggled trying to get info for my dog on raw feeding, so I know how difficult it can be. A really great place is The Raw Feeding Community on Facebook, they have tons of info and such there, the people can be a bit... snippy, sometimes, but I know the admins and they are wonderful people and do their best to keep everything friendly. With any internet groups there's going to be "those people" though. Is your friends Vet pro-raw? A lot of Vets do not agree with raw, for several different reason. One being because they do not have enough knowledge about it. Or because they have seen too many people trying to feed raw but not balancing it, and seeing dogs coming in with severe nutritional deficiencies, and so on. Some reasons understandable, some just because there can be stubborn Vets that don't want to open up to new ideas, some Vets are great though and will do research for you, it all depends. My Vet isn't pro-raw, but if you feed it and your pet is healthy and happy he doesn't saying anything about it, but he recommends kibble. So even if your Vet doesn't think it's a good idea, do not be discouraged. We try to explain to people that Vets are barely taught anything on nutrition at all, and there are a handful of Vets out there that are 100% against raw, some that are iffy about it, some that don't care so long as your pet is healthy, and some that are pro-raw. Just depends.
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Shawna
Junior Member
Posts: 111
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Post by Shawna on Aug 19, 2015 9:47:07 GMT -5
She's not against but it also sounds like she's not as knowledgeable about it. She advised my roommoate to check out BalanceIt.com which is a site where people COOK the food & buy supplements to balance what's missing.
I guess that makes sense since most people want to treat their pets like they are human.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2015 19:38:05 GMT -5
Cooking the meat diminishes almost all of it's nutritional value that carnivores need to survive, I would not recommend doing that at all. While I suppose it is better than kibble, dogs were made to eat meat, they can handle it as ferrets/cats and etc can. But at least the Vet didn't give lectures/recommend crappy kibbles, that's good.
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Post by Heather on Aug 19, 2015 22:00:22 GMT -5
4-7 Bone-in Meals 4-5 Muscle Meals (remember, heart is a muscle) Half Liver & Half Other Organ Half Heart, 1/4 Liver and 1/4 Other Organ 1 Meal of Hearts (not required, but can't hurt) *** 60% of their meats should be Red Meat *** A minimum of 3 different proteins
As a dog's meal plan ....do not put in one meal of heart as not required....It is required. Dogs require taurine for heart and eye health, it has also been proven to provide healing for nervous and behavioural conditions...so for brain health. It's not an option. They do not require 60% of their meats to be red though a good mixture of red and white meats are definitely beneficial. They require good quality meats but you can use the exact same breakdown as for your ferrets. Do not rely heavily on chicken for meats especially for bone in meats for your ferrets. There are many different bone in meats you can use....rabbit, quail, pheasant, duck, turkey to name a few. The only way to balance a good cooked diet is to supplement heavily. Supplementing is not necessary when using a balanced raw diet. If you must cook, it is better than kibbles but the supplementation is so expensive and so intensive to do and there are so many ways to do it wrong I wouldn't even attempt it. ciao
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