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Post by Celene on Apr 2, 2015 8:35:33 GMT -5
I saw your facebook post explaining "ferret logic".
It makes no sense whatsoever, but doesn't it feel so great when you finally make a breakthrough and figure out the one absurdly random thing that apparently works for them?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 10:35:54 GMT -5
katt I'm confused. I've read in a lot of places that ferrets only need access to food 24/7 if they are kibble fed, and that most people who feed raw do so at designated times.. I've been trying to keep food out all the time anyway though, just in case. It's a mix right now. Peanut, Raisin and Porkchop feed themselves from a bowl. Noodles does eat by himself but I think he's only been eating just enough not to starve. I'm going to be feeding him by hand until he gets his sea legs. I forgot to take a dangley picture of him! I'll try to remember tonight.
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Post by Celene on Apr 2, 2015 10:55:58 GMT -5
Raw ferrets only need to eat twice a day (unless they're growing kits or have insulinoma or other health issues). The problem is ferrets generally don't want to eat at your planned meal times. This can be more of an issue when there are multiple ferrets. Say there are 3 ferrets - two are hungry and one is not. Those two ferrets eat all the soup and by the time the third fuzzy is hungry and ready for dinner there's none left! So you want to make sure you put plenty out for everyone and leave it. I put a few good-sized chunks of meat (about 2 oz) out every morning and every evening. Sometimes they're hungry and want it right away, sometimes they want to play first and then eat. Sometimes when I leave/go to bed the bowl is still full and they decide to eat while I'm not there. So basically they have access to it 24/7 so they can eat on their schedule. You know, because they're ferrets, and they definitely DON'T want to make anything easy for you So even though they don't graze and eat every 3-4 hours like kibble-fed ferrets, they still need food out all the time so that when they do want their meal, the food's there for them.
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Post by katt on Apr 2, 2015 11:06:56 GMT -5
A ferret who is raised on raw from a very young age (<1yr) CAN go longer periods without food. Any ferret who has been on kibble for a period of their lives is at risk of developing insulinoma. Raw diet prevents more damage but it cannot undo the damage that has been done and if the cancer is there it will grow as cancers do and the previously invisible and undiagnosed insulinoma will eventually become apparent. If a ferret has insulinoma or even borderline insu that hasn't become super apparent yet and you let them go several hours without food....you could come home to a ferret in pretty bad shape or worse. Also, think about it this way - a ferret's digestive tract is 3 hours long. A human's is 24-48 hours long. Imagine if you went all day eating only breakfast and not eating again until dinner. Granted, ferrets are Not humans, and in the wild there would certainly be some days when they wouldn't catch a meal at all, but they would Also typically be able to catch small meals throughout the day - a rodent here, an insect there, grab a bite of carrion over there... Most ferrets (there are Always exceptions with these guys lol) fed a raw diet will self regulate. It is very uncommon for raw red ferrets to overeat, and the only reason for limiting their access to food would be if they are overeating and becoming overweight, which is obviously unhealthy. Many people remove food from the cage because they are worried the food will go bad, but meat is good (for ferrets) a LOT longer than people think. Ferrets aren't humans- what would make us sick causes no problem for them. They are very well designed to eat raw meat. In the wild they might find a catch, drag it through dirt and heavens knows what else to their den, urinate/defecate on it to keep other animals from eating THEIR prize, leave it laying around for gods know how long, and eat it. Ferrets are very much equipped to handle a higher bacterial load than humans or all wild weasels would die. lol They have very acidic stomachs that kills most bacteria, and a very short digestive tract that means food zips through too quick for most bugs that aren't killed to have time to latch on and set up shop. As a general guideline for how long meat stays good: Soup: 6-8 hours Grinds: 8-12 hours Chunks and Bone-In Meats: 12-24 hours (on the lesser end for slivers, longer end for thick pieces of meat with bones in it) Whole prey: 24-48 hours They are also pretty good at telling when meat is too bad for them to eat. Just like you instinctively know to throw out those leftovers in the fridge that smell funky, or not to eat that piece of pie with mold on it, ferrets too have a good gauge of when a food shouldn't be eaten. I find that typically meat goes through stages. First it dries out before it beins to spoil - they will still eat the drying meat. Then, it begins to get greasy and smell really bad and is pretty rancid - they will NOT eat it at this stage. As the meat continues to sit there though (missing the occasional stash is inevitable, ferrets love making jerky), the meat continues to dry, stops smelling, and becomes the much prized "ferret jerky" at which point they will eat it again - and with great relish.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 11:34:32 GMT -5
Raw ferrets only need to eat twice a day (unless they're growing kits or have insulinoma or other health issues). The problem is ferrets generally don't want to eat at your planned meal times. This can be more of an issue when there are multiple ferrets. Say there are 3 ferrets - two are hungry and one is not. Those two ferrets eat all the soup and by the time the third fuzzy is hungry and ready for dinner there's none left! So you want to make sure you put plenty out for everyone and leave it. I put a few good-sized chunks of meat (about 2 oz) out every morning and every evening. Sometimes they're hungry and want it right away, sometimes they want to play first and then eat. Sometimes when I leave/go to bed the bowl is still full and they decide to eat while I'm not there. So basically they have access to it 24/7 so they can eat on their schedule. You know, because they're ferrets, and they definitely DON'T want to make anything easy for you So even though they don't graze and eat every 3-4 hours like kibble-fed ferrets, they still need food out all the time so that when they do want their meal, the food's there for them. Okay cool, that's what I've been doing and that's exactly why!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 11:38:01 GMT -5
A ferret who is raised on raw from a very young age (<1yr) CAN go longer periods without food. Any ferret who has been on kibble for a period of their lives is at risk of developing insulinoma. Raw diet prevents more damage but it cannot undo the damage that has been done and if the cancer is there it will grow as cancers do and the previously invisible and undiagnosed insulinoma will eventually become apparent. If a ferret has insulinoma or even borderline insu that hasn't become super apparent yet and you let them go several hours without food....you could come home to a ferret in pretty bad shape or worse. Also, think about it this way - a ferret's digestive tract is 3 hours long. A human's is 24-48 hours long. Imagine if you went all day eating only breakfast and not eating again until dinner. Granted, ferrets are Not humans, and in the wild there would certainly be some days when they wouldn't catch a meal at all, but they would Also typically be able to catch small meals throughout the day - a rodent here, an insect there, grab a bite of carrion over there... Most ferrets (there are Always exceptions with these guys lol) fed a raw diet will self regulate. It is very uncommon for raw red ferrets to overeat, and the only reason for limiting their access to food would be if they are overeating and becoming overweight, which is obviously unhealthy. Many people remove food from the cage because they are worried the food will go bad, but meat is good (for ferrets) a LOT longer than people think. Ferrets aren't humans- what would make us sick causes no problem for them. They are very well designed to eat raw meat. In the wild they might find a catch, drag it through dirt and heavens knows what else to their den, urinate/defecate on it to keep other animals from eating THEIR prize, leave it laying around for gods know how long, and eat it. Ferrets are very much equipped to handle a higher bacterial load than humans or all wild weasels would die. lol They have very acidic stomachs that kills most bacteria, and a very short digestive tract that means food zips through too quick for most bugs that aren't killed to have time to latch on and set up shop. As a general guideline for how long meat stays good: Soup: 6-8 hours Grinds: 8-12 hours Chunks and Bone-In Meats: 12-24 hours (on the lesser end for slivers, longer end for thick pieces of meat with bones in it) Whole prey: 24-48 hours They are also pretty good at telling when meat is too bad for them to eat. Just like you instinctively know to throw out those leftovers in the fridge that smell funky, or not to eat that piece of pie with mold on it, ferrets too have a good gauge of when a food shouldn't be eaten. I find that typically meat goes through stages. First it dries out before it beins to spoil - they will still eat the drying meat. Then, it begins to get greasy and smell really bad and is pretty rancid - they will NOT eat it at this stage. As the meat continues to sit there though (missing the occasional stash is inevitable, ferrets love making jerky), the meat continues to dry, stops smelling, and becomes the much prized "ferret jerky" at which point they will eat it again - and with great relish. Thanks!! That time table is really helpful. I think I need to be changing out the soup more often. I put some out before I leave for work, then when I get home.. my boyfriend's ferrets get round 1 of playtime.. so by the time my ferrets get to come out and I refresh their food, the soup from that morning is pretty old. I'll get into the habit of changing food in the morning, then right when I get home from work, then again at the ferts' bedtime. So that'll be approximately 6-8ish hours between food-refreshenings.
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Post by katt on Apr 2, 2015 11:46:07 GMT -5
Raw ferrets only need to eat twice a day (unless they're growing kits or have insulinoma or other health issues). The problem is ferrets generally don't want to eat at your planned meal times. This can be more of an issue when there are multiple ferrets. Say there are 3 ferrets - two are hungry and one is not. Those two ferrets eat all the soup and by the time the third fuzzy is hungry and ready for dinner there's none left! So you want to make sure you put plenty out for everyone and leave it. I put a few good-sized chunks of meat (about 2 oz) out every morning and every evening. Sometimes they're hungry and want it right away, sometimes they want to play first and then eat. Sometimes when I leave/go to bed the bowl is still full and they decide to eat while I'm not there. So basically they have access to it 24/7 so they can eat on their schedule. You know, because they're ferrets, and they definitely DON'T want to make anything easy for you So even though they don't graze and eat every 3-4 hours like kibble-fed ferrets, they still need food out all the time so that when they do want their meal, the food's there for them. Celene raises another extremely good point. If they aren't hungry when you decide meal time should be, they often will not eat enough. Raw definitely sustains them longer than kibble, don't get me wrong! But it is still important for them to have access to food to snack on during the day.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 11:47:03 GMT -5
Makes sense! I would feel the same way as a weasel
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Post by katt on Apr 2, 2015 11:52:24 GMT -5
We are all posting at the same time. Haha Yes in the soup stage it's good to swap out the soup 3x a day. When you make soup, freeze it in an ice cube tray. That will give you very convenient sized pieces to thaw. Then you can simply thaw out 1-2 cubes (or however many you need) at a time. You can also put some frozen cubes in for a great cool off snack in the summer! It's always good to switch it up and offer meats in different ways - soup, whole, warm, room temp, frozen...it keeps it exciting for them and is good stimulation. My boys LOVE their micicles. Haha Of course that bit comes later - first they need to realize that that odd slimy pink stuff is actually yummy nomz. LOL
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 12:07:13 GMT -5
Yup, I use the ice cube tray method. We go through it so fast though. I need to just make a huge batch this weekend.
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Post by Celene on Apr 2, 2015 12:24:54 GMT -5
I personally LOVE using these giant silicone ice cube trays: Once the soup is frozen solid you can pop them out and put them in a big freezer bag. Also better (IMO) than small ice cube trays because you can weigh/measure out one cube per meal. Even now that they eat chunks of meat I still use it so I have bags of pork cubes, quail cubes, rabbit cubes, and when I plan their meals I just take them right out and put into a 4oz tupperware container. Saves so much freezer space.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2015 13:00:04 GMT -5
Nice! I might have to get a few of those. The small trays are a pain when I'm trying to pop the cubes out.
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Post by katt on Apr 2, 2015 15:59:07 GMT -5
Either get a Misto and fill it with olive oil to spray (great for cooking human foods) or put a little olive oil in a paper towel and lightly rub the ice cube tray with it before pouring the soup in. It will help keep them from sticking and make it easier to get the cubes out.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2015 19:05:38 GMT -5
I served the last of the soup this morning, so I stopped by Whole Foods on my way home from work to get some meats. Since they LICKED THE BOWL CLEAN, I wanted to give them some meat immediately. No ferretone, no spoonfeeding or anything. You know who RUSHED to the bowl?? NOODLES.
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Post by Celene on Apr 3, 2015 22:48:02 GMT -5
Yay Noodles! He's probably self-conscious about being called skinny so much Did any of the others eat the meat? How big were they? (You can use the lego scale if it helps.)
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