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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2015 11:32:21 GMT -5
I'm sorry the weekend was frustrating, but it sounds like you 2 hung in there fantastically! And Congrats on the scale! (I do know that 'new scale' feeling! Hehe!) Umm, as far as her weight- I think it's still good. 2 and 3 weeks ago she was close to her current weight - so maybe she was just being a chunker last week? She does have a beautiful chubby belly though! I'll be anxious to see if she starts losing it now that we're having better weather! Don't you just love those textbook poops!?! maybe now is a good time to do the chicken challenge? It's been 13 days since her last chicken, and also, since it's still the soupie version (frozen cubes in the fridge) I might be able to see what her appetite's like. If I get a reaction, will it happen soon? Like after just one meal? I don't have to put her through several?I would be hesitant to try the chicken again also; especially since she has not been grinding her teeth. Maybe we could try a 50/50 pork and beef this week instead? I'll tag Jason, bitbyter, to see what are his thoughts are on this. I wonder if the dark poops were not chicken related, but Maisie still recovering from the Heliobacter and antibiotics? We are having terrific weather here too! Maybe Maisie knew it was warm outside and that's why she was being difficult this past weekend? Ferrets sure do know how to make us crazy...and then fall for them again in an instant! :pullhair: Good job getting through the weekend! I'm proud of you both! Let's wait to hear from Jason before making any changes. :thumbsup:
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Post by bitbyter on Mar 16, 2015 13:29:42 GMT -5
I agree. Wait on testing chicken again for another week or so.
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Post by Blue on Mar 16, 2015 20:28:34 GMT -5
OK, holding off on the chicken challenge. I was a bit nervous about rocking the boat, anyway. Today I got another textbook poop I got some more pork muscle (I have enough pork heart, liver, and kidney to last me for months!). I also got some beef, and it was already cut up into cubes! How could I resist that? However having read Katt's treatise on IBD & allergies, I think I'll hold off on the beef for now. Apparently it's #2 in being most likely to cause an allergic reaction, right after chicken. There's a local farmer's market that's supposed to be really good for meat; it's open on Thursday afternoons. I'll try to make it there this week and pick up something new. And you're right, she might have absolutely no allergies at all, and the black pudding poops were her recovering from the gastritis and the antibiotics. The only other hint I had is that after some time on lamb, I gave her 2 oz chicken & 1 oz lamb because I was running out, and that is the only time that I have even seen her squeak in pain after eating and looking like she wanted to throw up. Then again she did just inhale 3 oz and she might just have eaten too much too fast! She had the last of the pork grind soup tonight so now the plan is: try to make some kind of small slivered mix, still all pork, still balanced (including bonemeal). I got a cheap grater that is wider than the one I have and maybe that will work. Or maybe I will add it to the list of things I've broken. I also got a super sharp ceramic knife but I'm kind of afraid of cutting myself by accident... perhaps I should wear a leather glove on the other hand. She ate OK tonight, I only had 0.6 oz of soup left, so mixed it in with some more egg (about a half). She actually ate one or two pieces of organ (heart maybe?), taking the time to chew, and not spitting any out. Yay! Progress Thank you
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 9:42:01 GMT -5
I'm glad we're holding off on chicken also! That's awesome that you have a local farmers market! If there's one near me, I have no idea about it! (shy) I have to get their meat from the grocery store, which works out pretty good. I can get some funky stuff from an Asian market but it's almost 1 hour away, so those trips are saved for the weekend. Do you have an Asian market close by? I remember you talking about her squeaking in pain :hug: I wonder if it was a coincidence? Just last week, my Reshiram (I call him my polar bear cub with red eyes because he's huge-and albino!hehe) scarfed down some beef chunks and then regurgitated about 15 minutes later They have such a heart-breaking look on their face when they have an upset belly. Is lamb a 'do-able' meat for you? (It's so expensive here so my kids have not tried it) Is there a certain protein you were thinking about trying? My thought was beef, but not if you don't feel comfortable with that. What about goat? Or turkey? I'm probably getting ahead of myself and should wait until you see what's available at the farmers market! Since you have an abundance of pork heart, liver, and kidney-and we know Maisie is good with pork, you can use those and just change the 8oz meat protein. (apologies if you already knew that) I hope this grater works better for you! Jason mentioned to have the meat semi-frozen and it might work better with the grater. Otherwise-good luck with the knife and don't cut yourself! I'm sure you'll be fine :thumbsup: Give Maisie a pat on the back for chewing and not spitting any out! WooHoo! Also, pay yourself on the back-you're doing great!
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Post by Blue on Mar 17, 2015 21:09:29 GMT -5
She is driving me crazy (just as she is supposed to). The good news first? She's in fine fettle, much more active than before, and looking for trouble. Although no war dance which is kind of strange. She did do some roll around and mouthing play (always adorable). She also actively wanted to go outside, I think this is actually the first time she's been interested. The bad news: she's eating close to nothing. Barely a couple of small mouthfuls this morning, and what looked like nothing during the day. This evening I pulled out all the stops, starting at (beautifully carved ) slivers, staying with the program, and after several variations, caving in to fully blown blended soup, warm, just how she likes it. I even tried a feeding den which she has never shown any interest in whatsoever. I tried finger feeding, and then finger feeding with salmon oil added in, she only ate 3 mouthfuls and then ran away. I guess maybe she is going full tilt into spring mode? She has been gaining a lot of weight until only recently, and maybe this is the first time her gut's been feeling OK (with the chicken allergy theory). She has started shedding a little. On the negative side, she definitely has tooth pain with cold water so I'll be taking her to the vet at the end of the week. This evening she tried to drink water from her bowl, and drew back a few times and then ground her teeth. Luckily she still slurps down tepid water in the bathtub like nobody's business, so at least she's comfortably hydrated. I'm trying to think of everything I can ask the vet to check for that's relevant. Mouth of course (I haven't manged to get a pic). Is there any way to see how her gut is doing? Sorry for unloading all this on you! Probably not what you expected when you became a mentor! At least I think that she's so manic right now that whatever it is can't be too bad (knock on wood). I wanted to go to bed early tonight. Thanks Crazy "Mayhem" Maisie. And a sincere thank you to you
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 8:16:43 GMT -5
Haha, maybe there was something in the air last night because my kids were out of their minds last night too! Running, jumping, dooking, mouthing-nonstop for almost an hour! (I love when they get super crazy like that-makes me feel good knowing they are so happy!) Do you have a harness for Maisie and/or has she been outside before? I bet all the new smells would make her go bananas! :tornado: Hmm, I wonder if she just wasn't hungry? Maybe her tooth ache is affecting her wanting to eat? When you gave her the warm soup, did she eat more of that? (I know you said 3 mouthfuls and ran away...so I guess I'm just double checking) If she still has not had anything to eat (but remember, girls eat, on average 1-3oz per day so that doesn't look like much) go ahead and give her the warm soup again (no slivers). We definitely want her to enjoy eating raw, so if we need to back up a little-that's okay! On the negative side, she definitely has tooth pain with cold water so I'll be taking her to the vet at the end of the week. This evening she tried to drink water from her bowl, and drew back a few times and then ground her teeth. Luckily she still slurps down tepid water in the bathtub like nobody's business, so at least she's comfortably hydrated.
I'm trying to think of everything I can ask the vet to check for that's relevant. Mouth of course (I haven't manged to get a pic). Is there any way to see how her gut is doing?
Definitely have the vet throughly check her teeth. bitbyter, is there something specific she should ask the vet? I hope you were able to get a good nights sleep and Maisie is an eating machine this morning! Oh and please don't feel bad "unloading" anything. If I don't know the answer, I will find it for you! Sometimes just typing out concerns or frustrations can help; and sometimes all we need is for someone to listen :hug2:
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Post by Blue on Mar 18, 2015 10:44:39 GMT -5
Just a quickie! This morning I made her a smoothie out of just pork loin and a sprinkle of bonemeal, and added 75% water. Then I got it to exactly the right temperature -- that's so that when I stick my finger in, I feel absolutely no temperature difference. I had to pull her out of her nesting box for this, and she really, really didn't want to try it. It took a lot of dabbing and persuading. Once she found out it was OK, she drank/ate the equivalent of 0.65 pure meat, which is a great amount. I think she didn't want to try it because she was expecting it to hurt Anyway, good news: we have an appt with the vet this afternoon at 2 pm. I'm making a list of questions/symptoms for them, and please add anything you can think of! Now I'd better get a load of work done before I leave... it's a 1 hour drive each way to the vet. But they're worth it!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 12:09:51 GMT -5
Aww, sounds like she either is feeling funky or being a sleepy diva! For the vet, if I were taking her in: Get a BG reading (I know she has in the past, but it can't hurt, and we can see if there are any changes) Check her teeth and gums (any chipped teeth? inflamed gums? any ulcers in her mouth/throat?) Maybe a stool sample if she'll produce one? Check her ears? Maybe a good thorough body exam? (Does her belly hurt if pushed on?) Since I'm not there, it's hard to say if there would be anything else you should ask for. I hope you're able to get an answer (maybe spring fever and being finicky because she knows you'll give her extra attention) I'll be thinking of you both for safe travels and good answers! I'll keep checking in!
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Post by Blue on Mar 18, 2015 16:24:14 GMT -5
We're back! Nothing terrible, just gingivitis. She's going to get her teeth cleaned Tuesday, and then she can also get her head x-rayed to be sure nothing's wrong. The vet said that even eating bone wouldn't clean off the amount of tartar she has (2 years of Walmart's Wild Harvest!). The vet says her bloodwork is "perfect". BG 78 after having not eaten for over 4 hours (would that count as fasting?). Her BG has always been about 80 so she's stable. More later, gotta catch up on work now!! Thanks Katy
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2015 8:09:31 GMT -5
Ah well not the best news but definitely better than some other scenarios! You are such a great ferrent! Maisie sure is lucky to have you to care for her!!! :thumbsup: Our vet is also, almost, an hour away one direction. I'm not a fan of the drive, but she's the best! The second time I met her, she diagnosed Zoey with adrenal disease and I cried like a child! I was so embarassed, but was not expecting that at all! The vet was so kind and Zoey seemed comfortable-we like her a lot! Sounds like you're comfortable with your vet too! Wild Harvest-grr! I didn't know her teeth were like that I guess that's why she was grinding her teeth? I think gingivitis makes their gums itchy? Yes, 4 hours without eating would count as fasting. (good job!) I thought the 'normal' range for BG was 80-120? Anything below 70 would be considered insulinoma? bitbyter, Jason is this still correct? I don't think 78 is anything to be worried about though. (Not to alarm you! Just throwing it out there!) How was her appetite after you guys got home? Last night and this morning? I bet you both slept well last night after your busy day!!
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Post by bitbyter on Mar 19, 2015 9:35:54 GMT -5
Yes, 80 to 120 is considered the "normal" range. With a fasting BG of 78 it is something I'd get checked each time you go into the vet or if you see / suspect any of the signs of insulinoma.
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Post by Blue on Mar 21, 2015 11:39:40 GMT -5
Hello! Saturday, finally! I've finally gone through all my scraps of paper and have some numbers for you Thu 3/19 I made a new batch of balanced soup, all pork, 80% shoulder meat, 10% heart, 5% liver, 5% kidney (that stuff stinks) + bonemeal. I added water to it until my blender stopped threatening to burn out and calculated the proportions: 70% meat, 30% water. So based on this, I'm going to translate soup to meat, then we'll have a better idea of exactly how much she's eating. In other words, if I give her 1 oz soup, she'll be eating 0.7 oz meat and I'll put 0.7 oz eaten. It'll translate better to slivers and chunks of meat later on. (Did that make sense?) Wed 3/18 vet visit AM: 0.7 PM: sulked and went to bed without eating Thu 3/19 AM: 1.6 oz PM: 2.6 oz I gave her evening meal in 3 batches; she kept cleaning the plate so I kept refilling it. 3/4ths way through the 3rd plate she started running around squeaking and throwing up, poor baby Last time she almost threw up she'd had 3 oz soup, so I think we've found her stomach size. I think she overate because she really hadn't had much the previous days, and this is soup exactly how she likes it. Also, I usually pace her better than that, not continuously feeding her, so I'll have to watch out for that. Fri 3/20 AM: 1.1 oz PM: 0.5 oz she licked the plate clean but I was a very bad mother and put us both to bed. Sat 3/21 AM: 1.6 oz - just a little less than offered, so perfect (mother not so bad anymore) She's getting her teeth cleaned on Tue so I have to start giving her Baytril on Sunday I'm thinking, stick to the soup and just replace some with slivers of pork loin, which should be easy to eat? I'm a little better at making slivers now! Yes, I'll keep a very close eye on her BG. It's always been borderline (but stable), so I'm hoping raw will pull her away from the edge. I think I'll ask for a complete set of x-rays while she's out to make sure everything is (at least visibly) OK. Does that make sense? I hope your weekend is going well. I'm about to do a bunch of ferret laundry
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 14:08:13 GMT -5
Happy Saturday! I just got back from the vets with Zekrom - the Des implants arrived so he got his first one! He also got his bg tested (95) so we'll get it checked again in a month. He did so well- proud momma over here Yes, your breakdown/explanation of the ratios is great! Thank you! It sounds like her appetite back! Sorry she made a little pig of herself Oh baytril - has she had that before? You may have to hide it in some food or chase it with oil. Zekrom had to take baytril once a day for 3 weeks! (I hid it in babyfood because they weren't on raw yet). I think keeping her on soup and slowly working the skivers back in (after her cleaning) is a good idea. Does she have to fast before her cleaning? I hope your laundry day is going well! I always seem to find myself doing the ferrets laundry before my own!
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Post by Blue on Mar 23, 2015 18:44:57 GMT -5
That's fantastic that the Des implants finally arrived! I can't believe it took them this long. And yay on the BG! Baytril -- yeah, that and 3 other meds after her surgery in Nov and we were both completely traumatized! So I was a bit worried... but then tried disguising it in a bit of egg and to my surprise it worked! So she gets an egg & Baytril appetizer (about 1/4 whole raw egg) followed by soup. That way I'm sure she's getting it all, and that it's not on an empty stomach. So Sun: AM: only 0.7 oz egg; no soup PM: 0.7 oz egg, 0.7 oz soup I did add about 0.1 oz of slivers using the vegetable peeler on the frozen meat. To me it all looks the same but every so often she would pause and chew for a while, so I think it's actually working! Thank you so much for asking if she had to fast before the cleaning, because I hadn't thought of it at all!! They said no, that by the time she comes in and they get around to her she'll have digested everything. Of course the thing is that raw digests slower than kibble, but I'll feed her early enough. They said to bring in a bit of her favorite food to eat after the surgery so she doesn't get hungry. At first I was trying to figure what to bring & how... but then I realized she's used to being fed only twice a day! Raw diet FTW. Oh! and the Sunday weigh in. I think she's finally hitting spring fever: Jan 19 835 g (1 lb 13.5 oz) Feb 22 1005 g (2 lbs 3.5 oz) Mar 22 945 g (2 lbs 1.4 oz) Now I need to rouse her majesty out of bed so the feeding schedule doesn't get too delayed... I'm wondering if she'll be more awake once her teeth/gums are fixed. I often come home, open the cage, say hi, and she just goes back to sleep instead of coming out. Thank yoouuuuuuu!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 20:08:11 GMT -5
Yay for magic eggs! Haha, I'm so glad you found something healthy and easy to hid the Baytril! Maybe you could bring a little soup with you when you pick her up? She might be fine until you get home, but a little soup when she sees you might be comforting? (Like when mom would make us chicken noodle soup when we're sick) Please forgive my short replies (and spelling errors). I'm on my phone and it's less effective than a nice PC! Her weight does seem to be tapering off... I wonder if she'll gain any once her teeth are all sparkly! I'll be thinking of you 2 tomorrow!
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