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Post by linsul on Mar 13, 2015 15:00:47 GMT -5
Weigh day!
Kat: 21.25 ounces, up from 18.52 Tulkas: 1.521 pounds
He's a bit of a punk on the scale still since he doesn't like oil yet. He was very still while it was on the pounds setting though! So far he's eating chicken chunks and ground beef.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 16:07:36 GMT -5
Try rubbing the oil on his gums, and dabbing it on his nose. Maybe mix it with his food. What kind of oil is it? I know mine can't stand olive oil, they LOVE salmon oil, and Marcie would die for coconut oil while Cai doesn't really care for it. They all have their on taste buds And good weights on both of them!
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Post by linsul on Mar 13, 2015 18:53:42 GMT -5
Uggggghhhhh I totally forgot to buy more EVOO at the store, I've been rationing it all week too. Fail! I do have coconut oil though so I'll try that. Salmon oil is what I use currently for the ferrets and the dogs. Tulkas is normally so accepting of anything that touches his face as food that I think salmon oil may just not be his deal. I'll keep trying though!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 11:26:52 GMT -5
I sent you a PM. Heather reviewed your menu and has a small tweak that would help. Tulkas is doing well and little Kat will make sure that he eats well. Has she taught him that she is the boss yet?
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Post by linsul on Mar 14, 2015 13:53:18 GMT -5
I can do that Cut up a fresh CGH this morning, some stuff got thrown away during the great Kat scare last week! Introducing ground turkey tonight, I have some turkey necks for later if all goes well. I'll probably have to chop them though at first but that's okay. Kat is enjoying Tulkas size CGH cuts, I knew she'd try to take his if cut up smaller so they'll both be on the same page even though she's further along with bone. He's doing his best, I saved some meatier boneless pieces for him that I'll give him in the tub later if he's having too much trouble. Kat has shown him whose boss in goofy ways. Like when he wants to sleep and she's like no, it's time to lick each other. She's bossy in a "you will pay attention to me now!" way. Tulkas loves teaser toys, and she loves pouncing Tulkas while he pounces them, which turns his attention toward her lol. That kind of stuff, she's not mad about food sharing (she did like to push food on him in their old cage from her perch above though) or toys/beds. I'm going to spend some time with him alone soon, but figured it's best to let them get into some sort of groove first before doing so. In the middle of typing this my husband brought Tulkas over and he just got comfy and cuddled. Kat is great about being held while walking around and loves hoodie rides, but if you sit she has better things to do and gets busy. She's the thinker/explorer and he's the goofy cuddler so far Our Great Pyrenees Ahsoka has gone full livestock (ferret, lol) guardian since building their cage out of our room. She's the head honcho between the two dogs, but is not overbearing or aggressive about it. Ahsoka has a little warning chuff noise when Annakin gets close to the cage, the same one she uses when Annakin is stalking my son with food in his hands. It's a "I see you....don't get any ideas" sound, and Anakin finds something else to do right away. So things are going well!
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Post by katt on Mar 14, 2015 18:48:28 GMT -5
Yep Heather has to approve and when that's done Sherry or myself can change your status.
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Post by linsul on Mar 15, 2015 14:14:04 GMT -5
Great thank you! Thanks for the help too, I didn't make it easy getting another newbie toward the end of Kat's transition huh? lol! As soon as I can confirm they both will eat turkey neck as an additional bone in protein then I'll update the menu! Thanks for all the help Here's Tulkas during CGH noms:
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Post by linsul on Mar 16, 2015 8:58:34 GMT -5
Went to the Asian market last night and got quail eggs, Duck gizzard and heart, Chicken gizzard, Quail, Pork uterus and kidney. I gave them slivers of each last night before they came out to play and they shared a quail egg. After playing they ate their turkey necks so it's game on for menu revamp! I'm removing CGH and replacing it with Quail because CGH gave Kat the runs, I don't have the space in my freezer to keep it around for only Tulkas, but will be looking to introduce rabbit soon. Kat has cut back her eating a lot this week, but if she goes after Tulkas's food I'll add to her intake again. For Tulkas I'm doing the same thing but adding an ounce, and his mice are pinkies still.
Sun- AM: quarter ounce duck gizzard 1 whole quail PM: 2.25 ounces beef chunks +1 hopper (mouse) Mon- AM: 2.5 ounces turkey neck PM: 2.5 ounces duck heart Tue- AM: 1.25 ounce lamb kidney 1.25 ounce chicken liver PM: 2.5 ounces chicken wingette
Wed- AM: 2.25 ounces pork chunks + 1 hopper (mouse) PM: One whole quail + quarter ounce duck gizzard
Thu- AM: 2.5 ounces turkey neck PM: 2.5 ounces chicken wingette
Fri- AM: 1.25 ounce chicken liver + pork uterus, 1.25 ounce duck heart mixed with 1 quail egg PM: 2.5 ounces turkey neck
Sat- AM: 2.5 ounces lamb chunks PM: quarter ounce duck gizzard + 1 whole quail
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Post by katt on Mar 16, 2015 15:47:00 GMT -5
Question - why are you feeding hoppers? Is that just bc you are still introducing prey? I only ask because young prey isn't fully developed yet, adults are a much better source of nutrients and calcium. You're covering bones and such in your other meals so I'm not so much concerned about imbalance, but if you are feeding mice and they are being well accepted, why not just up it to adult mice? Just something to consider.
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Post by linsul on Mar 16, 2015 16:32:14 GMT -5
I'm still in intro phase, I have a platter of 45 adult mice just waiting to be eaten but so far Kat says no. She's had 7 hoppers so far and I bought 10 more last night, so I'm hoping she'll be more accepting after those. Assuming Tulkas doesn't share them with her, he's ready for fuzzies but my source is out til this weekend.
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Post by katt on Mar 16, 2015 17:11:42 GMT -5
Cool. Just wanted to check, some people don't realize adult prey is better. A note on your menu too - as you add adult prey and the portions of prey become larger you may want to cut back a bit on the organs in the rest of the menu IF the prey is a significant part of their diet. Remember that organs should be 10% of the total diet and heart 10%. But whole prey is a perfectly balanced meal. So if you are feeding a mixed diet, you can subtract the whole prey meals from your frankenprey meals for balancing. For example, a normal frankenprey menu as you have posted is 14 meals a week (2 meals per day) right, so 1.5 meals is about 10%. That's why you have 1.5 meals organ and 1.5 meals heart. If you replace 1-2 meals with whole prey, you are down to 12-13 frankenprey meals and that isn't going to significantly throw off the balance. However, once you get up to say 3-4 meals of whole prey, you now only have 10-11 frankenprey meals to balance. So NOW out of 10 meals, 10% would only be 1 meal instead of 1.5. Too much organ can give them soft, dark stools (as in more frequently/persistently than just after their organ meal), so you can use that to help you judge. As a rough/general gauge, you can cut back half a meal of organ for every 4 whole meals replaced by whole prey. Heart you cant really overdo (as far as the taurine goes) but the higher blood content can also make for soft stools if they get too much. Let me know if my explanation made sense or not, I don't want to confuse anyone! lol It can be tricky at first but once you get the hand of it it's pretty straightforward.
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Post by linsul on Mar 16, 2015 20:08:38 GMT -5
It does make sense, thanks for typing it out Whole prey is my next hurdle so it's very helpful and much appreciated. I'm not rushing Kat *too* much because I see some value in Tulkas catching up, but she does love mice so I'm head scratching here. It's not like she doesn't want the adult mice, she licks them and gnaws on them but just doesn't actually eat them. I've only tried 2 so far, I'm trying one a week that I cut open and gut for her. She's flirting with the idea but remains noncommittal. If she's still dragging her feet when Tulkas catches up I may serve her up a gutted cold one and leave her to it longer to see if hunger gives her some urgency because it's clear she likes them! The math you posted will certainly come in handy when we cross the whole prey bridge For funsies: Sudden onset meat sweat syndrome striking Tulkas in the bathroom! He's been such an easy going fur kid. Kat was much more creative in dodging food he readily accepts. Quite a bone smasher now too! I'd have pics of her in her thread but she's been loving her new hanging tunnels too much to get her, and is not a potty napper lol
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Post by linsul on Mar 17, 2015 8:53:14 GMT -5
We have adult mouse success Husband gave her one before going to bed and bet me she'd eat it. He wins, I'm taking his morning kid drop off days for the next 2 weeks lol. Worth it! On to rat pups, I only have 2 so I'll make sure she's hungry and gut them first. Also for clarity sake I need to clear up the Quail part of the menu. By one "whole" quail I mean a pre packaged one I haven't cut up, not "whole" in the sense that it's still got its organ and feathers.
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Post by katt on Mar 17, 2015 18:45:05 GMT -5
They are so cute! And Yay for mice! (dance) Heather has to approve the new menu
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Post by linsul on Mar 17, 2015 19:07:41 GMT -5
No problem, thank you
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