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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 12:40:49 GMT -5
The reason that we suggest separating the time between kibble and raw is the difference in digestion rates. Raw digests faster than kibble and mixing them can cause an upset tummy or lead to a bacterial overgrowth.
That said, we often will suggest adding kibble powder on top of raw for the more stubborn ferrets. You just need to keep an eye on Alvin and see how he reacts to having kibble and raw close together.
The average grown boy will eat 3-4 ounces a day. Just like us, they have days where they aren't very hungry. Also, we're moving towards Spring. They have less of an appetite in the Spring, in addition to the sheddding.
You can leave raw soupie in his cage for him. The rules say 6-8 hours on soupie, but I've found it holds up fine for a little longer. If the weather is hot and it turns faster, Alvin will avoid it.
Alvin won't need to eat every few hours on raw, like he does on kibble. He is receiving alot of nutrients and digesting them. That's why kibble poops are bigger and smellier. There is more "waste". Forgive the pun, but all the filler in kibble is simply eliminated and doesn't provide any nutrients.
Ferrets do better in the cold than in the heat. 66F is fine for him. I'm guessing that he has a blanket in his cage, and if he gets cold, he'll simply burrow under it. It's the heat that they have more problems tolerating.
I always leave food out. I put out their breakfast in the morning and pick up any of the leftover dinner. Then at dinnertime, I pick up any leftover breakfast and put out their dinner. Mine eat a bigger breakfast and a smaller dinner, but with five free roam ferrets, they like having a snack and I want them to have access to food all the time. Some ferrents only feed once a day, but you know your Alvin best.
Your plan won't be difficult to decide on. Right now, you are on stage one. Alvin is learning to eat soupie. The next step is to start adding tiny slivers of meat to the soupie. Once he is eating small slivers, you start reducing the amount of soup and increasing the size of slivers. Once he is eating all slivers, then you can begin to introduce him to a Frankenprey menu (if that's what you plan on feeding) or Whole prey.
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Post by gfountain on Feb 11, 2015 12:56:08 GMT -5
Also, if you're concerned about the soup being out all day, you can leave a frozen cube of soup for him. Leave some thawed in a dish and either add a frozen cube to the dish, or put a frozen cube in another dish. He will eat the thawed food first and eat the frozen once it thaws.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 22:07:16 GMT -5
Thank you Poncesmom and gfountain. I am relieved that I can leave soupie in the cage during the day and night. The frozen cube is a great idea. We don't have AC here which is why we got Alvin set up in the family room in the basement. He is starting to have more time upstairs which is perking him up and he is starting to interact with the 8-month old kitten (supervised of course). I'll try to see if he will try slivers again. His first try was pretty good and then he didn't want anything to do with raw for a while. Patience and encouragement, right? Thanks so much!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 0:27:06 GMT -5
Alvin is doing great! He is eating slivers now as long as there is some other wet food. Stella and Chewy's turkey dinner or baby food are really good bribes. I'll make more soupie in the morning. He is not eating kibble any longer. His energy is so good now but he still has no interest in playing with his toys. I'm getting up about 40 min earlier to give Alvin more time where he gets a good breakfast while I have coffee and then he can run through the house exploring. I keep the cat in the bedroom so Slvin gets a full hour of time to spend with me and exploring on his terms. Just a couple of weeks ago he had no energy to climb just a few stairs. Now he runs up and down with no trouble. Amazing. He was taking .3 cc pred twice a day and now he is down to once a day dosing. He is a very happy boy right now. Unfortunately I have a work trip next week and hubby is helping his mom with knee surgery the same time so Alvin will be spending time with our friend who also has a ferret about his age. She eats kibble and I'm not sure if Alvin will eat it or not. My friend will feed him raw as long as I give her the prepared mixes but I'm worried he will eat both or stop the raw all together. He seems to really like the raw so I'm hoping he will choose that over the kibble. My scale broke so I need to replace soon.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 11:14:16 GMT -5
Most ferrets really won't play alone with toys. They prefer the social play of running, chasing and hiding from each other. My one little girl Keller who became an only ferret and had little attention, will play with small balls. She occupies herself well. The others are all about playing together. It will be great for Alvin to get some playtime with another ferret.
Alvin may indulge in some kibble or the other ferret may enjoy Alvin's meals. It's hard to tell, but if you take a step backwards, we can fix that when you get home.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 21:21:29 GMT -5
He used to run through his tubes and move his derby eggs around. Alvin has been eating very well! Since he is going to the ferret sitter tomorrow I've been giving him Rad Cat turkey or Stella and Chewy's turkey with some baby food. He is getting good at eating the small bits in the Rad Cat. He didn't eat much today be he ate a ton today. He got most of his 5 oz serving today. Plus baby food. He hasn't been eating any if the food I leave in his play pen but he did today! I weighed him this evening and he came in at 2 lb 8 oz. he is down to one .3 cc pred once a day instead of twice. He has a lot of energy and he genuinely looks like a happy, happy boy. He has turned down the cat's kibble and his old kibble. Such a good boy!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2015 6:10:30 GMT -5
Alvin has been doing wonderfully! He has been completely off of kibble for 3 weeks, is loving his FDR and soapie and is gaining weight. He is still on 0.3 ml of pred (once a day now) so I'm not sure if his weight gain is from a better diet per se or if it's from the prednisone. His activity level is so much higher (over an hour of play/wander/exploring twice a day) and is genuinely looking much happier. These pics were taken yesterday morning and his weigh tis now 2 lb 13 oz. One of his first pictures (Feb 3) is below at about 2 lb 6 oz. His coat is so much better (he did have a melatonin implant in early Feb as well).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 11:29:48 GMT -5
Alvin continues to do so well on Stella's and slivers. May try to expand his meats this weekend. I have ground turkey waiting for him. Should I try offering him a chicken wing to see what he does with it? Should I wait until we get a mentor before giving him bones? He finally decided that salmon oil (Grizzly) is pretty great. Thanks!
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Post by raynebc on Mar 18, 2015 12:52:38 GMT -5
It's should be safe enough to try chicken wing, what I do for my ferrets is chop them up into small pieces. The two small sections are the easiest to do this for, although you'd want a good sturdy knife like a cleaver to cut bone in meat. Some people smash the bones up into pieces with a hammer instead.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2015 23:14:02 GMT -5
Is it possible for ferrets to overeat on raw? I've bee giving AlVin as much as he wants which he always had kibble available. Alvin is on pred so his weight gain can very easily be explained by that alone. He feels very firm in the belly and his energy has soared. Should I watch his weight or just let him have his fill? He gets about 6 Oz of raw or FOR minimum a day and is now just under 3 pounds.
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Post by Celene on Mar 20, 2015 23:22:38 GMT -5
Ferrets tend to eat a lot (lot) more at the beginning of the switch; maybe because they're making up for a lack of nutrients on kibble or they're just really excited about their new food! Ferrets will also eat more when on soup/ground/small slivers because it's just really really easy to eat.
I don't have much experience with pred-belly, but I would advise against limiting his food at this point. Once he gets on bigger chunks of meat and bone he'll be forced to slow down a little anyway.
If you have access to quail, rabbit, cornish game hen, or anything "smaller", those would be the easiest bones to start with. For some reason I never had luck smashing wings with a hammer (and was worried about making a racket for the people living below us) but found holding meat in one hand and "hammering" with a big knife repeatedly broke up the bones pretty well. If you can the marrow to seep out to the surface that should really get Alvin's attention!
What size slivers/pieces are you up to? It will be easier to start him on bone once the pieces he's eating are at least as big as the first joint of a finger. I'm not sure if you've been brushing his teeth, but if you're worried about dentition while on soup, gizzards are a great natural tooth brush and are awesome for building up jaw strength and prepping ferrets to eat bone.
I will keep a closer eye on your thread until you get paired up with a mentor, but also feel free to shoot me a message if you ever have any questions!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2015 8:43:02 GMT -5
Thanks Celine! I did not want to limit his food but I know from my own belly that I just don't feel well if I eat too much. He is still on very small slivers right now plus he absolutely enjoys Stella's Tummy Ticklin Turkey. He seems to like a thicker than soupie consistency and he has turned away from the bandits treats he used to get before his insulinoma started. I don't mind that he no longer wants the bandits but I also wonder if his teeth are bothering him. He started the raw after he totally refused kibble. Not sure if that would deter him from trying larger pieces or not. I would like to get him on meats I give him and supplement with Stella's eventually. We have a long row of Asian markets within 15 min of our home and our whole foods also has a wide variety of options. I have a gizzard defrosting now so I will see what Alvin does with that later. He just ate a big plate of thigh, heart and liver plus a bit of Stella's to entice him to finish it off as half his meat serving went untouched. His belly is grumbling and he looks like he is very itchy right now. Not really in the mood to play.
Thanks!
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Post by Celene on Mar 21, 2015 14:15:19 GMT -5
I find ferrets generally have more energy before they eat. Some people have likened it to the natural "chase the prey first to catch and then eat and relax" but I prefer to think of it as the human equivalent of laying down on the couch after a big meal You're lucky that you have a bunch of Asian markets to choose from! I live in an area with a large Asian population so have no problem getting quail and frogs legs and organs and other "exotic" stuff but a lot of members on here live in small towns with just regular grocery stores and need to order their meat online. If you're worried about Alvin's teeth you might also want to consider brushing them - Oxyfresh makes an amazing pet gel. If you can catch him asleep or in a calmer mood try pulling up his lips and taking a look at his gums - it's pretty easy to tell whether they're nice and healthy light pink, or have areas of darker/redder inflammation.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2015 16:30:46 GMT -5
I am going to try Oxyfresh as Alvin really prefers small, small slivers. I will give gizzards a try as well. Since Alvin tends to stick to the softer and smaller consistencies I ordered a meat grinder. Hopefully that will help with meal prep for the muscle meat until he will take larger chunks. He likes turkey and chicken and he will eat liver and heart. Are there other meats that ui should get him to try now? I know taurine is super important so heart is a must or human grade nine replacement. Are egg shells good for that as well?
Thanks!
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Post by Celene on Mar 25, 2015 17:07:35 GMT -5
Eggshells are used to supplement calcium before ferrets get to the bone-eating stage. Other good sources of taurine are tongues and eyeballs. Dark meat (muscles that work hard) have a fair bit of taurine, but not as much as heart. A ferret diet should consist of: 10%-15% heart (minimum) 10% liver (better yet, 5% liver and 5% another organ such as kidney) 10%-15% edible bone With the remainder being "regular" muscle meat. Since Alvin isn't yet eating bone-in meat, just use the same ratios as above and feed 1/2 tsp of egg shell per 8 oz of meat. Of course the standard soupie recipe is formulated to meet those requirements. Once Alvin is eating chunks consistently enough that you think you can wean him off soup, you can switch to the frankenprey menu (also formulated to meet the nutritional requirements above) which consists of: 2-3 muscle meat meals 8-9 bone-in meals 1.5 meals heart meals 1.5 organ meals This is based on 2 meals/day. For easiness' sake, I feed 3 "organ" meals which are 1/2 heart, 1/4 liver and 1/4 other organ. Of course the same rule regarding eggshells would apply when feeding the above menu pre-bone. It's also a lot of work cutting up that many meals into tiny slivers, so I would personally recommend maybe feeding 1/2 soupie meals and 1/2 frankenprey meals (just divide the number of meals above by two) once Alvin gets up to eating a 5-6 on the lego scale, and then fully switching to frankenprey when he starts eating pieces the size of 6-7. As for getting him to try other meats, pork tends to be pretty popular with ferrets. A ferret should have *at least* 3-4 different types of proteins (animals) per week. Beef is cheap and readily available, although it can be a little harder to introduce. Right now my girls eat rabbit, quail, frog legs, pork, beef and lamb mostly. (One is allergic to chicken.) Of course you only need to introduce one new protein at a time. Hopefully my mini-book here wasn't too much! If you find yourself extremely confused just let me know what you'd like clarification on
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