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Post by RedSky on Jan 29, 2015 7:37:56 GMT -5
From last nights 5oz of pheasant there was just over an oz left. I put in the rest of the block this morning, about 4 1/2 oz I think (the pheasant and bowl together is 8oz) I took up the wooden treat toy and Korra needed a bit of help and soon lost interest. Mako loved it though and Bolin stood and watched until Mako started chewing a treat and Bolin would try to steal it straight from his mouth (and succeed a few times!) I also took up this toy www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=26150 that I bought my dog and he's hardly played with it. It's got 9 squirrels in (came with 6 an bought an extra 3) and Korra had fun stashing all the squirrels, rather than eating. It's perfect for Korra she can fit in any of the holes, but it's for supervised playtime only in case Mako or Bolin try climb in the smaller holes and get stuck.
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Post by acodlin on Jan 29, 2015 8:00:15 GMT -5
I have that exact same toy, its a smaller version. Some of my tiny girls can fit in it lol. Bolin sounds like the smart one, make everyone do the work for him and steal the treat! My girl Church is very smart and good at figuring stuff out. She would probably like a treat toy. I'll have to try to find one for her!
It sounds like they are doing really good with the whole grinds. What area do you think we need to focus on?
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Post by RedSky on Jan 29, 2015 8:30:53 GMT -5
I'd like to be able to throw a couple of duck wings or necks in the cage without chopping them into teeny tiny bits, and then work on getting them to eat mice and other larger foods. I still have a pigeon (no feathers, head or guts) in the freezer. They will eat 2" chunks of meat without a problem, but as soon as it has bone in, they just aren't interested and only eat an oz or two between all of them.
I want to increase the size of the muscle meat, at the moment I am feeding a whole lamb heart between them and my dog (about 1/4 each). Should I try cutting a chunk off the the dog and putting the rest in as 1 piece for them to fight over, or chop it into quarters and give them all a piece each? Same with other muscle meats, 1 to share or 1 each? I feel like having one between them all will encourage more movement that the boys could do with and give Korra the mental stimulation she needs, but I don't want one going hungry or them injuring each other. I also wonder if I give them just one piece if it will encourage Korra to eat there and then.
The bone meal came, so I'm just keeping it in the cupboard for now. I might make some proper soup with it in at some point just to get them used to soup if they get ill. I sort of skipped the soup step because I used the grinds.
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Post by acodlin on Jan 29, 2015 10:20:15 GMT -5
Try giving them the rest of the heart after you take the dogs portion out and see how they do. If they refuse to eat it, then cut it into a piece for each. Making them share might stimulate them to eat more. They wont hurt each other.
As for the wings, it usually takes time. Increase the sizes of the bone, when it gets to a size where they wont eat any bigger, then go with that size for a few days.. then try to start increasing it again. They will give in.
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Post by RedSky on Jan 29, 2015 10:28:19 GMT -5
I'm fairly confident they will eat any size with the heart, and they ALWAYS clear their plate when it's heart. I'll get the camera out for the fun that I'm sure will follow. Unfortunately I have already chopped up the heart we have so it will be the weekend at the earliest that I can get some more whole ones. I will also try giving 1 big piece for their muscle meat meal. I'm thinking about 4oz between the 3 of them, then following with a meal of wings so that they will be hungry and more likely to eat it?
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Post by acodlin on Jan 29, 2015 10:42:55 GMT -5
That sounds like a good plan
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Post by RedSky on Jan 30, 2015 10:09:25 GMT -5
I gave them 2 duck wings for tea, they look a little chewed but otherwise untouched so this morning they had minced lamb (just muscle meat from supermarkets) with some bone meal powder on. I'm not sure how much to give though so put on about 1/8th tea-spoon. I thought their stools will let me know if this is too much or too little, but I'm hoping too little and I can up it gradually until I know how much to feed. Even Korra rushed to the bowl to eat. I only gave them 3oz and I'm going to try again with duck wings for tea, but chopped different sizes in the hope they will start with the small ones and then eat the larger ones.
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Post by RedSky on Jan 30, 2015 17:19:29 GMT -5
For the first time they have had pork kidney on it's own. There is kidney in the blocks and for their organ meal they normally have liver and pancreas, I was amazed at how all 3 wolfed it down, much like they do with heart. The duck wings hadn't defrosted so I've left them in the fridge for morning, they had another meal of minced lamb with bonemeal powder.
I'm having a lot of problems with Korra at the moment, her biting seems to be getting worse and I'm not sure how to deal with it. She even made Mako urinate today when she grabbed him. I've posted on my other thread, and would appreciate it if you would have a look. I'm going to talk to the vet about a DES implant on Tuesday (at my dog's next appointment) to see if she can get them in and will do them, otherwise I will try a vet about an hour away that I'm sure will. I want to get her done, but might have the boys implanted too just as a precaution, Bolin was only neutered last April so hopefully if I get an implant he won't ever develop adrenal.
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Post by acodlin on Jan 31, 2015 12:19:13 GMT -5
It sounds like they are holding out for meals that they want. You have to be firm and make sure that they are eating the bone in meals too. About a 1/4 teaspoon per 8oz of bone meal powder should be fine. Less if their poops seem to firm, more if they are too loose. Do you have any duck necks? You could try to mash those until they are almost flat and see if they will eat that.
As for the biting I'll go find the thread and check in there.
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Post by RedSky on Jan 31, 2015 15:38:16 GMT -5
I've thought of a few things I could try, would any of these be okay for short term and if so how long? The heart is lamb, the liver is lamb or pork, kidney and pancreas. If their average meal is supposed to be about 5oz, could I make a soup of 10oz heart, 5oz liver, 2.5oz kidney, 2.5oz pancreas and freeze into ice cube trays, then feed a bit defrosted and poured over each meal so this last the full week and only feed this and duck wings and necks.
I could just feed duck neck and wings with nothing added. Mako and Bolin always have a piece of whatever I put in as soon as the bowl touches the floor (sometimes before). Korra stashes it in a corner of the cage and eats while I'm not there. I could chop some pieces up really really small, so like mush then have slightly bigger pieces underneath. Or just all the same size?
I could try other proteins, I'd rather not have chicken in the house due to Cookie's allergies but I could buy a tray to try, are they any smaller than duck wings? I still have that pigeon in the freezer, I could try them with that, I'd imagine the bones are a lot smaller. They really like lamb and when I buy lamb breast for our dog it always has a few really small rib (I guess) bones in it, they are smaller than the bones in the duck wings. They are small bones and per breast usually only 2-4 in, but I could get a few breasts and cut out these bones, maybe feed 2 bones per ferret... I'd have to weigh them. Or I could get over the thought of chopping up a mouse and just do it and try that. Or try them on a whole one and see what they think?
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Post by RedSky on Feb 1, 2015 9:23:28 GMT -5
Mouse for breakfast, and I should have recorded it. Bolin was the first awake as usual when I go in with food. He could smell it and was really excited. Normally he give what ever food it is a few licks first then has a half effort at opening his mouth to eat. Not this time, I dangled it by the tail and he jumped up at it, reminded me of a crocodile or something lunging out of the water, mouth wide open grabbing the prey. He around with it, gave it a brief shake then froze. Dropped it on the floor and looked at it, nudge it a few times then walked off. I think someone has been feeding him live mice or he's been hunting or something. He wanted it to move. I picked it back up and showed it to Korra, she too grabbed it and got really really really excited. I thought she was going to eat it, but she stashed it in her 'nest', in the pile of little soft toys she has and pulled the blanket over it. Bolin came back then Mako came too for a 3 way tug of war. Needless to say, it was no longer in one piece. In the end Korra was grabbing Bolin's scruff and shaking him, Bolin was acting like she wasn't even there and chomping on the mouse and Mako was watching from a safe distance after getting bitten on the face my an annoyed Korra. Bolin left half a mouse, Korra sniffed it over, nudged it a few times then left, Mako decided to play 'how much can I shake out of the mouse skin' and I left as the intestines were flying around but still attached.
I'm worried Korra viewed it more as a toy to stash or a baby than food. She was very very cross with Bolin and Mako, I've never seen her like that with Bolin. And she didn't try to chew the mouse once.
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Post by RedSky on Feb 1, 2015 18:41:00 GMT -5
So the mouse was all gone when I returned. I didn't search every corner but I couldn't see it from having a quick look in normal stashing spots. Since they only had 1 mouse between the 3 of them and I don't think Korra ate any I gave them 3oz of pork (I think...) block (balanced grind), they normally love pork and have had it before as a grind but when I went back to top the bowl up at tea time there was only a bit missing, and it was what I watched Mako eat when I put the bowl down, so I left it. Just gone up for the night time check and there is over an oz left. I've replaced it with a fresh 5oz but I'm a little worried that they haven't eaten much today. Litter trays are full, Korra was super active (and aggressive) earlier and wanted another playtime just now so I let them out for a quick 10 minutes, Bolin is much more active than he usually is (maybe he's hunting for another mouse!) and Mako is a little quieter than usual. Not over interested at playtime, even when I let him into the bathroom, he didn't wake up just now but that isn't unusual for him at any time of the day.
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Post by acodlin on Feb 3, 2015 19:02:44 GMT -5
Organ soup is one way to get them to eat organs. I usually do the same and add some bone meal powder to it so their poops are not so runny.
I like cornish game hens because all of their bones are edible. They are smaller so they are more willing to eat them. You certainly can try the lamb bones, They may require being smashed a bit.
As for the mouse, I have mixed results with whole prey with my kids. Some will eat a mouse or chick, others refuse. She may not realize it is food.. I'd keep trying. You can try to cut the abdomen open a little (avoiding the guts) and see if the smell will entice her to eat it.
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Post by RedSky on Feb 6, 2015 5:05:28 GMT -5
Sorry I've been gone for so long, we had to let Cookie go on Tuesday and we needed a few days. I'm still a complete mess and keep expecting him to walk in the room or thinking I need to do this that or the other with him and he's not there. Bolin is a big help as he just lets me hold him and cry. Both him and Mako have been licking me like mad, I guess they know I'm upset and want to help. Mako is the only one who can make me smile and laugh at the moment, but Korra is driving me potty!
I think I confused you with the organs. They LOVE all the organs (and heart) so I was thinking about using an organ soup over the chopped up wings and necks to get them to eat the bone in food better.
The mouse was such a hit (with Bolin anyway) that I went to the big pet shop to get some more (they are usually cheaper there). The price has gone up and up on them recently so they are about £1 per mouse. I spotted a 2kg bag of chicks for less than £5 so grabbed them too. I know many don't class baby animals as a proper meal and should just be a treat, but then I've seen others feed nothing but chicks... so a little confused and I thought as 1 meal a week or fortnight wouldn't hurt??? Anyway I pulled three from the bad (snapping the head off one... oops) and thawed them out. Fed them this morning and all three were very excited. Mako grabbed the head and went behind the bed/hide and I didn't see the head again. Bolin took the body and ate most of it, I've no idea which bit he left. Korra took the other two whole ones and stashed them. She wanted the third one but Bolin isn't a push over when it comes to food, he was hissing and kept shaking the chick and moving his grip closer to Korra until he pretty much pushed her off. I always find it shocking that my cute cuddly lazy boy turns into a such a well ferret over whole prey. Once Bolin was done Korra came and picked over what he had left but she was too distracted with me watching so I left them to it.
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Post by acodlin on Feb 6, 2015 7:23:51 GMT -5
I am so so sorry to hear about Cookie, no matter what, we are never really ready to let them go I lost a 17 year old kitty last year and it about killed me. I've lost 10 ferrets in the past 5 years, some back to back. It's the downside to owning and loving pets. Chicks are not a balanced meal, but they are a good snack you can give them once or twice a week. Have you tried small rats? or quail? My kids love quail and they can eat all the bones.
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