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Post by Heather on Jan 9, 2015 23:01:28 GMT -5
Name:Sarah HF Forum Username: RedSky Please confirm that you are 18 years of age or older: Yes 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? My dog is fed a raw diet, since finding out ferrets are carnivores I've assumed they would eat raw too, but this site has helped confirm it and exactly what they need. 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. My dog eats a lot of the commercial raw that comes as blocks of mushy stuff for want of a better description. He's not always up to eating bones and pieces of meat due to health problems, so being able to feed this would be great. We also always have duck wings and necks, turkey necks and some chunks of meat for the days he is feeling up to it. Our dog has allergies so we would rather feed the foods that he can have just to be easier for us and less chance of our dog eating something he can't have. We also have a snake, so have large mice and small rats in the freezer. I would like to incorporate this into their diet maybe once or twice a week as they are expensive but I feel they would be a healthy meal. Not interested in feeding live or breeding my own food, I don't have the stomach for it. 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? I'm adopting 3 ferrets next week and would like them to be as healthy as possible and feed them the diet they are supposed to eat. 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? I understand and I am committed to this change. 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? UPDATE We have just adopted 3 ferrets, they came home on Monday 22nd December. Korra, female, 1lb 8oz. Very active, a bit nippy. Likes to be held while being fed soup or mush. Will sometimes eat small chucks but usually stashes and then ignores it. Mako, male, 2lb 8oz. Active and seems very bright. Will take anything when hand fed, and will eat 1/2" chunks, mush and soup but prefers soup (and likes it warm). Bolin, male, 3lb 3oz. Very very lazy, he waddles rather than walks or just drags himself around on his stomach. He is playful and loves the teaser toy but doesn't chase it. He will eat from the bowl when placed in front of it but prefers to be hand fed. He ate a duck wing tip today! But again prefers warm soup to other foods. Age wise they are all estimated to be between 2 1/2 and 4. I'm hoping to get a better look at their teeth once we have bonded a bit and maybe upload some pictures to get some estimates. They are all booked into the vets this Friday (2nd Jan) to be looked over, with focus on Bolin. 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup? They are currently on Alpha Ferret Feast (dry food/kibble) and Chicken Natures Menu (Raw) and apparently enjoy it. When I visited it looked as though they had eaten their raw or just had kibble as that was all that I would see. They also LOVE salmon oil. UPDATE I'm really restricting the dry food, and moved to chicken and lamb or chicken and rabbit for the Natures Menu. I've also given them some blended heart, and heart strips (about 1" long), turkey in chunks or mush and today Bolin ate a duck wing tip. The other 2 just stashed theirs. 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? Nope. 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? First time ferret owners and I tend to be a bit nervous when it comes to the health of my animals. 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? Most evenings and weekends unless our internet is down. Can't access on my phone unless I'm using the internet at home on it, bad signal area. 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). Hi and welcome to the mentoring program . In a little while your mentor (Acodlin) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun (dance) . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by acodlin on Jan 11, 2015 3:17:56 GMT -5
Hi Sarah! I'm looking forward to working with you and your kiddos. Have there been any progress made since your post?
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Post by RedSky on Jan 11, 2015 10:24:51 GMT -5
Hi, I can't believe how quick it was to get a mentor. Thank you.
Acodlin I am looking forwards to getting to know you. My fuzzies are doing quite well.
I went in to weight them and get some pictures but they are all zonked and I didn't have the heart to wake them up. I will do as soon as I hear them moving around, will probably be early evening so a few hours.
The ferrets love any watered down mushy stuff (commercial blocks we also feed our dog) and try to lick all their food no matter it's size, just in case they can lap it up. I have to hand feed them their first piece or two of every meal but them they are happy to eat the rest. Size wise, they are taking 1 inch chunks (sort of square shape) and strips 1" width by 1/2" thick by a few inches long of muscle meat (or heart) without a problem. They will take slivers of liver but I haven't tried them with any other organ or bigger pieces of it yet, but don't think that will be a problem. Bolin and Mako were eating some duck wing tips, but have since decided that it's too much effort and started to ignore them. All three will happily stash them though. They have also started to leave a pile of boney bits from their commercial grinds, so I'm not sure if they are saying they have had enough bone or just starting to be awkward.
Toileting wise, stools are only looseish after a heart meal. I'm trying to feed heart every 2 or 3 days as half a meal along with something boney, but they aren't eating the bone half at the moment. Oh and after egg, or too much salmon oil... Oops.
My dog has some treats that I tried with Korra and Mako (used them to help them learn to come to their names), Bolin was more interested in staying in his cage and chewing the meat off a pork rib my dog didn't want. Korra and Mako loved them and their stools looked normal afterwards so I'm hoping to continue using them.
They had a vet visit yesterday, I was a little worried about Bolin being lethargic but also wanted them all to be checked over now they are more settled. Turns out Bolin isn't fat, the vet thinks it might just be an enlarged spleen but also said she thought she could feel something else and wasn't sure what. So he's going back in as soon as we can get him there to have a scan, x-ray and if needed a biopsy. Unfortunately the only day they could do this week coming was the only day we couldn't do! In the meantime we are keeping a close eye on him. Typical that I fork out for insurance, but this won't be covered as it will be classed as a pre-existing condition. Did you have any look with Noabi and the silver and other stuff. Not that I know where to get it, but I'm sure I could find some online and work with my vet if it is just an enlarged spleen.
I've been rubbish at weighing how much they are eating and have just been giving them one bowl to share, but I can feed them individually out of the cage if need be. I've also been trying to balance the diet mentally as I do with my dog, and getting out stuff I think my dog will eat (he's off his food at the moment) but I've just worked out a feeding plan for the next couple of weeks based of what's in the freezer, so I can clean it out before we place out next order.
I'm in the UK and I don't know if you can help me but I can't find anywhere to get some of the other organs and proteins mentioned on here. I can easily get heart, liver and kidney. I can sometimes bulk order pancreas with the dog's food, but can't find anything else. I also cannot find gizzards for cheaper than over £5 for 100g, not including postage. And I can't find out if anything is added to them or if they are cooked, so don't want to order them. I'm struggling with bones they can eat, so far I've tried duck wings and necks. I'm going to try get rabbit from the butchers but they often don't have it in. I'm going to check a store I have noticed 'odd' proteins in before but usually they are in a sauce/seasoned and 'ready to cook'. I'm thinking about trying them with a frozen thawed mouse or small rat (we have a snake so have them already), but I don't want bits of mouse everywhere!
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Post by RedSky on Jan 11, 2015 15:41:24 GMT -5
I tried to get pictures and weights, but they were super hyper this afternoon. My OH played with them while I cleaned out the cage and he took them into the bathroom. Mako and Korra learnt they could get under the bidet so that was their mission. I will look into blocking it off. I got one picture of Korra from the top while she was licking some salmon oil but Mako wouldn't stay still and neither would sit in the bowl no matter how much oil I offered. They were licking it but couldn't stay still enough to get a weight, it was fluctuating far too much for me to want to guess.
Bolin was desperate to get back to bed and since I couldn't get the other two I figured I would try again tomorrow.
For tea I gave them some commercial grind turkey. It has turkey meat and bone in. I weighed out 3.5oz, added water to make it up to 6oz (they prefer it with warm water and it was still very cold from thawing). I split this into three bowls and tried to feed each ferret. Only Bolin was playing ball, he ate nearly an ounce and 2 pieces of liver (one was Mako's but he'd stashed it and Bolin got there before I could). The terrible two ate about 0.4oz each between Korra climbing my onesie and biting me and my OH and Mako being a fidget and both of them trying to get under the bidet again and again and again. I've put the leftovers in the cage with them, but Korra and Mako didn't want to go back, but they seemed over excited and really wound up so I wanted them to calm down. They will have another playtime before bed, but I can only take Korra biting me so many times and my OH was getting fed up of it too. Time out wasn't having much of an impact.
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Post by RedSky on Jan 11, 2015 18:25:50 GMT -5
I had better luck this time. Here's Mako now And a from the 26/12/14 His weight then was 2lb 8oz and tonight was 2lb 7.5oz Korra now and the one I got earlier And from 26th [ Her weight then was 1lb 8oz and is now 1lb 7.5oz Bolin now and Bolin on 26th He was 3lb 3oz and is now 3lb 2oz If you need different positions just let me know. Korra and Mako are getting better at jumping onto and off things, when they first came home they struggled to get onto the bed (mattress on the floor) but Korra can jump in and out of that box without too much trouble and Mako is trying to copy and almost there. Korra is loving being able to climb up me, but she want's to keep going and is still biting any skin so my neck, face or hands. Bolin is walking a little better, but was slipping on the bathroom floor (lino). He does better on the carpet in the bedroom but our dog was asleep on our bed and I don't let them play in the same room as him, and Korra has discovered she can get into the treadmill and we can't get her back out so have to wait for her to decide to come out. I'm not sure what's under the cover, as it is an electric treadmill. I don't want her eating wires so for the moment they are also banned from the kitchen/dining room. Will be better when their room is sorted, hopefully it will be done this weekend.
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Post by RedSky on Jan 12, 2015 18:26:59 GMT -5
I'm having trouble weighing how much they eat. They eat more while they are in the cage. Should I not leave the food in, and make them eat 2 or 3 times a day? I could do it more often at the moment too as I'm home most of the day.
Today they had 2 meals of pheasant mince as my dog refused to eat his share and I didn't want to throw it out while it was still fresh. No way they will eat it all but I figured I might as well put it all in anyway. It's a pound bag, but I split it into two meals.
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Post by RedSky on Jan 13, 2015 16:53:03 GMT -5
I think they ate about an oz each this morning of a block of pheasant, it was hard to tell as they kept swapping bowls and Korra hates it when she's not the centre of attention. Mako was bouncing all over the bowls and Bolin was eating everyones but he eats pretty slowly.
It was supposed to be lamb heart for tea, but my dog decided he liked the look of it. So I fell soft and gave pretty much all of it to him since he's rarely eating. I saved 3 little cubes and gave the ferrets one each. Korra LOVED it and was trying to steal Bolin's out of his mouth, so I picked her up and she wasn't impressed. I had to wake Mako up to eat his before Korra or Bolin got it, but all three chewed and ate their piece. I gave them some turkey block for the rest of their meal, which none of them were impressed with. Bolin licked it but it's a bit thick to be licked up. Then they all started searching for heart. I've got another tub out for breakfast to make it up to them.
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Post by acodlin on Jan 13, 2015 17:27:44 GMT -5
Hi sarah, Sorry it took me so long to respond. On the weekend it gets hairy for me sometimes, I'm a nurse and I work every saturday/sunday/monday night. I think if they are more comfortable eating in the cage, then that is fine.. make them a feeding den to put in there. I use a plastic tub with a lid, cut a hole in the side or front for them to get in, and then I put a hook in there to hang the meat off of. It makes them feel safe when they are eating and contains the mess.
What does a weekly menu look like for your kids? What proteins, organs, and bones will they eat? I only weigh my ferrets once or twice a week during the switch, the food you can weigh but as long as your kids are maintaining their weight and eating the right amount of organs then I wouldn't worry about it as much.
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Post by RedSky on Jan 13, 2015 19:56:07 GMT -5
I was getting a little worried, but that's fine. Glad everything is okay.
Proteins wise they have eaten turkey, duck, rabbit, pork, lamb and pheasant. They have had all of those as commercial grinds and as plain meat, bone in or organs. They aren't massive fans of some of the grinds but do eat it, just not the crazy reaction I get with some chunks. Bone wise they have most in the grind, but will chew meat of rib bones (too thick for them to eat) and they have chewed duck wings and necks but not fully eaten them. They love lamb heart, and have eaten pork heart. They will take liver as slivers hand fed, although Bolin will eat bigger pieces. I've not yet tried them on any other organs but the grinds contain some. I'm going to try kidney (pork or lamb) next, and I can order pig pancreas but not sure if I can get anything else. They also love egg. I've been whisking one up and letting all 3 share the bowl. They have had egg 3 times since Christmas.
I've been thinking about other bone in meat I can feed. There is a local butchers that I sometimes get rabbit from for my dog so went there. They didn't have any but had pheasant, partridge and pigeon. I got a pigeon but I'm leaving it in the freezer for a few weeks.
I did think about a feeding den, but Korra gets a little crazy in closed in spaces with the boys and bites them making them squeal. They soon get over it and are fine, she just doesn't like being blocked in except for the bed and even then she's always closest to the door. They are also pretty good if I feed them on the lowest level, Mako has one corner behind a bed, Korra has the corner near the ramp and Bolin stays at the food bowl. I just change this blanket as needed (usually every 1 or 2 days) which is fine as they aren't great at using the litter tray so I'm changing them all frequently anyway.
Menu planning I'm not great at, I can do it but sticking... Not so good. Stuff comes up or I know Cookie won't eat that today/tomorrow so I swap for something else. I've been raw feeding Cookie for years so fairly confident that I'm good at balancing out. I do prefer to feed meals of heart/organ and bone to make a little less mess coming back out.
My plan (stuff I have in the freezer to use) this week Tues AM - Duck neck, heart PM - Pork mince
Wed AM - Pheasant block PM - Duck wings, liver, introduce kidney
Thurs - Chicken block (last one left from when I first got them, not a normal food I give and dog can't share so will last all day served over 3 meals)
Fri AM - Pheasant block or rest of chicken block if some left and it's okay PM - Heart, pork rind (just a strip each), duck wings
Sat AM - Turkey neck (not sure if they can eat the bone, but I'm going to hammer it first and cut into sections), try them with a bit of pancreas each PM - Turkey block and heart
Sun AM - Duck wings, liver and kidney or pancreas depending which they prefer PM - Pheasant block
What do you think? If they don't eat the bones in the meat I have some egg shell I can add to their next meal so they aren't missing out on calcium.
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Post by acodlin on Jan 14, 2015 9:45:23 GMT -5
Forgive me but what do you mean by block? like pheasant block? lol
I find the easiest bones are from chickens and cornish game hens. Turkey necks are harder for them to eat, duck necks they can manage. It seems like you have them eating what they need to eat, it's just about getting them to eat bone and balance their meals?
Once I know what block is I can comment on your menu
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Post by RedSky on Jan 14, 2015 10:11:15 GMT -5
Sorry, by block I mean commercial grind. Usually it is a balanced meal although as they are sold for dogs I want to top up the heart just incase, normally it is the whole animal although gutted and skinned/defeathered.
I'd rather not have chicken in the house just incase my dog finds a way to it especially since when they are out they often stash things in random places. If really really needed I could work out a way to do it but would be easier and less stressful for me if they just had the same food.
They seemed to enjoy their duck necks this morning and as always loved the heart. They still have most of the necks left, they just chewed on them while I was watching so I left them to it.
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Post by acodlin on Jan 15, 2015 11:41:12 GMT -5
You could try some adult mice and rats to give them more bone to chew on. The commercial grinds are great for a balanced diet, but they don't do much for their teeth. If you notice that their teeth are starting to get tarter build up, you'll have to include brushing their teeth 2-3 times a week into your schedule.
Looks like they will get plenty of bone with the grinds, you will have to watch their stools to make sure they are not getting too dry, i'm counting 10 bone in meals if they eat everything on your menu. They need 8-9 a week. So far your meals look pretty good. You have a decent variety, it is mostly fowl based so I'd try and include some goat/lamb/beef/rabbit if you can. Or if you can get them to eat mice/rats that would increase the variety. Sometimes they can get stuck on a certain protein and not want to eat much else so I try to not feed them the same protein more than twice a week. I know it can be difficult to get certain meats on a routine basis if they are not commonly eaten in your area. I'll try to ask around about sources of meat for you in the UK.
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Post by RedSky on Jan 15, 2015 16:48:28 GMT -5
At the moment they aren't eating all the bone in the duck necks and wings, more just chewing the meat off. I'm smashing them up more and more. Korra did really well with the last ones though, and Mako and Bolin are giving them a good go.
I've added some lamb to the menu already, they had it this morning. Nipped to the supermarket and got some for the dog since he enjoys it and is a little off his food, thought the ferrets would enjoy it too. They chewed the meat of some lamb ribs (was lamb breast so softer smaller bones but they didn't eat them anyway), I'll add some more into the menu along with some pork. I wouldn't know where to look for goat, they normally have a meal or two of rabbit but I've run out and the local butchers doesn't have any in at the moment. They will eat rabbit blocks happily. Since the blocks are balanced I try to take them out of the percentages to work out how to balance the rest. Is that right? I still feed a normal weekly amount of heart since they can pass an excess out, that also means that for the meal they get the heart they only have half a meal of bone in. If I fed the bone in, heart and organ meals separately they would have half a meal of organs (rest is in the blocks), 1 meal of heart (think I need to add another half a meal?) and 2 1/2 meals of bone in but this is including the turkey necks and also them not eating that much of the bone yet. I'm afraid beef in another meat we try not to have in the house because of Cookie's allergies, along with a few others.
How do I go about feeding mice and rats? I've got some in the freezer for the snake, I've heard you're supposed to gut them first, but no idea how to do that without making a complete mess. And I don't fancy cleaning up bits of mouse from all over the cage. Any suggestions?
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Post by acodlin on Jan 17, 2015 12:29:19 GMT -5
You can start with mice and try cutting them up and drizzling salmon oil or their favorite oil.. or hide it in their favorite food.
You may have to smash up the wings and necks, ferrets seem to be lazy eaters. If it takes too much work to chew they give up lol.
With taking the whole grinds out of the organ equation, my only concern would be them getting too much liver. The kidney or pancreas is fine, heart is fine, just need to keep an eye on the liver consumption. I'll run it by the other mentors and see how much liver they would think you'd need to feed.
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Post by RedSky on Jan 17, 2015 18:07:06 GMT -5
Would it be easier if I aimed to feed 7 meals of block (so balanced meals) per week, then I just have to half everything else except the heart?
I need to order some new blocks and other bits, I'll have a look at what I can order and if you would help me choose the best things to feed them that would be brilliant.
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