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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2015 13:28:58 GMT -5
Good for Bentley! They all did very well. :banana:
How long ago was it that he was diagnosed with Insulinoma? Have you seen any symptoms, like staring into space or hind leg weakness? It might be a good idea to pick up some karo syrup. Karo works faster than honey, and if by some chance, he has a seizure, that will bring him out of it. Have you done any reading about Insulinoma? The best way to search the forum is to use your browser search bar and type in Holistic Ferret Forum Insulinoma. That will bring up all the threads related to that. Or you can look around under Health and Medical. The more you know about it, the better off Bentley will be.
Let's give it one or two more days and then try removing the kibble and replacing it with soup. You'll have to watch Bentley to make sure that he eats. But I think everyone else will be ready to move onto soup and away from kibble.
:wave2:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 0:37:08 GMT -5
He was diagnosed during columbus day weekend, in october, so... around two months? I never saw any actual symptoms, just weight loss. He lost around 6 ounces within a few months. I tested his BG as soon as I noticed he was losing so much weight. It's exactly the same way as my Frankie started. Bentley got sick exactly two year after Frankie and lost the same amount of weight. I have karo syrup. Well, its not karo brand, but it is light corn syrup with nothing else added. I have a drawer of medical supplies in the ferret room, and that's one of the things in it, amongst anything else I could possibly need. I've done a lot of research on it. I'm the kind of person who always does a lot of research. It makes me feel better. Sounds good to me. I hope we're done with kibble before I need a new bag
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 0:59:47 GMT -5
Also, I got the slippery elm bark powder. The natural food store here has it in their bulk section, so I just got half an ounce of it to try it
Do you know Erinn from mustelamania? She does sort of paid mentoring online. She told me that she used to be a mentor on here. She actually works at the natural food store I go to here, so I talked to her a bit and she told me about a farm near here that sells good quality organs and other meats, so I'll probably be going there next time I run out of hearts
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 13:13:27 GMT -5
Wow, what a small world. I do know of her. She has popped up quite alot during my researching of different topics. I've even created several threads with info and given her the credit for the information.
She seems super informed, smart and caring. What a great source of information for you to meet. I don't know when or why she left the forum, but I wish she was still around.
Let me know how the slipper elm bark works. You might also ask her about Reishi mushrooms. I'm fortunate in that I haven't had to deal with any illness, aside from when I lost my Heart Ferret Ponce and that happened so quickly. So, medical issues are not my strong suit. I'm trying to learn as much as possible, but sadly experience is often the best teacher.
It's the weekend, I hope you have some fun or relaxing plans. (dance)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 14:47:06 GMT -5
She does seem to know a lot. She actually knew about me because apparently she helped with the rescue of nestle. She said she told the person who rescued her to bring her to petco, and then after I picked her up, the manager of petco told her that I had taken her to find her a home. It's crazy how things like that happen.
I tried the slippery elm bark today, before I fed him and gave him his medicine. He actually licked it off of the spoon I gave it to him on, so it must not taste too bad. I gave him a teaspoon of it as a syrup
I didn't get to check Bentley's BG today, so I'll do that tomorrow. I prefer to do it in the morning because that's before he eats.
I'll look into the reishi mushroom too.
This week will probably be a good time to try removing the kibble because I'll only be away from the house for, at the most, 3 hours a day so I'll be able to feed them as often as they need
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 18:53:58 GMT -5
The days that you are only away from home for three hours or so, are perfect for removing the kibble.
Bentley hasn't had Insulinoma too long. I'm glad to hear that. We can't reverse the disease but a proper diet and good medical attention and he should have alot more time with you and a not have to deal with so many of the issues that improper care can bring.
I'm glad that you do your research. I found the forum trying to find help for Ponce. We had just moved here and I left behind a good vet. I'm a big reader and researcher, but I've learned so much more from the forum. There isn't alot of good info on ferrets out there. Have you ever heard of Bob Church? He's a big advocate for ferrets and has written alot on ferrets. I'd love to attend one of his lectures.
Well, I'm off to feed my gang and hopefully find a way to sneak Keller into the gang for a little playtime. The last few mornings, I've casually brought her into the morning madness and then watched carefully to make sure that no one notices and grabs her. We're getting there slowly but surely. :wave2:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 23:09:35 GMT -5
That's what I was thinking. I was thinking maybe tomorrow I could remove the kibble in the morning and feed them as often as they want and see how they do. Does that sound like a good idea? That's part of why I decided to start raw now. I want to keep him around as long as possible. I actually tried to test his BG earlier, but he was being too wiggly I found this forum while researching when I had Delilah. I don't remember if it was after we found out she had cardiomyopathy or before then; it was so long ago. I forgot about it until I got Snowy though I have heard of him. I've read some things he's written, but I probably should read more. I accidentally put Nestle down on the floor while Penny was still out and Penny immediately started chasing her. I probably should've let them fight, but I just hate watching that. Everyone else gets along with her, but Penny is just a brat. I always joke that the only reason I keep her is because she's cute I weighed them all Hershey - 2 lb 11.8 oz Snowy - 3 lb 1.8 oz Penny - 1 lb 11.3 oz Bentley - 1 lb 11.8 oz Yogi - 2 lb 5.5 oz Nestle - 1 lb 12 oz
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 23:41:05 GMT -5
Bentley and Penny have both lost weight... I'm not so worried about Penny because her weight is always fluctuating and she is a bit chubby, but I thought Bentley would be gaining weight. I guess I should feed him more often. Is there anything else I can do to try to help him gain weight? I've been thinking of asking the vet about carnivore care. Maybe it could help him gain weight. He has nearly no muscle or fat on his body. His bones stick out everywhere. When I hold him, it feels like the bones in his arms grind against his ribs
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2015 12:45:43 GMT -5
I think today is a good day to try removing the kibble. You can safely leave the soup out for 6-8 hours. If it gets a skin on it (like pudding) add a bit of warm water and stir it around. I'm excited to see how they do.
Overall, their weights are good. We don't want Bentley to lose weight though. Can you post a picture of him dangling. When he dangles, he should be straight up and down. A waistline indicates that he is a little too thin. You should be able to feel his ribs, but not see them.
I know that alot of ferrents talk about Carnivore Care. It does seem to help. Moving from kibble to raw will make them leaner. They lose the kibble fat and gain muscle weight, so that could be happening. Pred should also give them a Pred belly and put some weight on him. Why don't you begin weighing him every 3 days and keep a chart. An ounce or two, here or there isn't bad, but with his Insulinoma, we can't afford for him to lose too much.
I know how hard it is to watch them fight. Maybe you can find a neutral place and supervise Penny with Nestle. Put a dish of oil down and let them try to share from the same plate. They are evenly matched weight wise and Nestle may surprise you and stand her ground. You can watch and if Nestle poops or Penny draws blood, or even starts to grab and shake, then you can break it up. If you have an empty carrier, and Penny gets too rough, put her into the carrier for two minutes only and say in a very stern voice, "No Bite". Let her out after two minutes and try again. It may take a few tries or even a few weeks, but Penny should get the idea. Fingers crossed.
:wave2:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2015 17:59:00 GMT -5
I'm just afraid they won't eat it on their own because I usually spoon feed them
I'll take another picture later. He's pretty straight up and down, but he just feels so skinny to me. He used to be at least 2 lb 4 oz. I'll start weighing him more often too.
I'll do that with them in the kitchen tonight. They're always exploring in the kitchen when I bring them in there so maybe it'll make it so they're not so interested in each other. I always hope that sometime she'll fight back, but she never does
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2015 18:09:27 GMT -5
It's still early in the switch, so you will want to start them off by hand feeding. If you leave the soup overnight instead of the kibble, you'll know in the morning, whether they have eaten. If they haven't, then you'll have a group of hungry ferrets and that's a great time to get a good breakfast in them. You'll get to where you recognize who is especially hungry and who is avoiding eating on their own. Bentley is the one that we have to watch very carefully. You may find someone is reluctant to eat on their own or holding out for kibble, but you'll get a feel for that also. They are quite capable of holding out for kibble and playing you. It's hard to be firm in the beginning, but you have to trust that you won't let them starve. Even if we go back a step or two, and we almost always take a step backwards at some point.
Nestle may not fight back because she understands that Penny is dominant. You just want to keep Nestle from getting hurt, but let Penny trounce her a little. Penny has to assert her dominance first, before they can be friends. Have you seen ever seen one grab another and drag them across the room? The first time that Roamy did it to Juliet, we freaked out. Then Juliet did it to Roamy and we went "Ohhhh!. It was a big difference for us watching a bonded pair play and having an only ferret for seven years.
These aren't your first though, so you've probably seen some rough play. The men seem to get more uncomfortable with it than the women do.
:wave2:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 10:39:47 GMT -5
Snowy just ate two ounces for breakfast! Someone was hungry apparently. I just made two pounds of soup. I'm hoping that'll last at least two days. Bentley definitely likes the soup more with crushed kibble in it. I would just give them all that, but Snowy refuses. He prefers it plain.
Yeah, Hershey dragged Nestle around when we first got her. Him and Penny are always rough when playing. I think Nestl will get it eventually. Shes just not used to other ferrets. I don't know if she lived with any other ferrets before. Apparently when I put her away last night, I left the cage open so she was out when I got up this morning, with Penny. They were both sleeping in seperate beds and I don't know how long it had been, but I just left them out because they seemed fine
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 11:42:35 GMT -5
That's a great sign. You would have heard squealing or fighting, so they managed to tolerate each other. Sometimes I think they are like small children and make more of a fuss when they know that Mom or Dad is watching.
If you can, try to just give Bentley the crushed kibble powder soup, until he will eat it on his own. We want the others to move forward and hopefully, you won't have to buy another bag of kibble.
If Snowy prefers the soup plain, try putting more slivers in his soup. Don't worry about size for now. Make them small and plentiful. We can increase the size as he eats more of them and less of the soup.
What about Franklin and Delilah? Do they prefer hand feeding or will they eat some on their own? What I mean is, when you put the plate down, will they go to it or do they wait for you to start them off.
It's Monday and a Holiday. Are you off today?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 19:02:42 GMT -5
They're still out together and still no fighting that I've heard (dance) I'm gonna leave them out until I hear anything. It usually doesn't even last five minutes. I'm already getting excited about having six ferrets all together finally
Its hard to give it just to him because they all prefer it when I put it in a bowl.
I'm out of chicken breast so I have to wait until I can get more to cut some. But I will do that
Franklin and Delilah are my past ferrets. The only ones who'll eat out of the bowl consistently are Snowy and Hershey, but I usually have to start them by showing them a spoon and then putting it into the bowl. Nestle and Yogi usually take a few licks from the bowl too, but they never actually eat enough. I didn't really weigh everything they've eaten today, just what Snowy ate because he ate alone first.
Yep, I didnt work today, and I just slept for most of the day. I got to feed the ferrets three times so far. I'll only be out from 8am-11:30am tomorrow so ill be able to make sure that Bentley is getting fed often enough
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 23:46:18 GMT -5
Yogi ate a [iHUGE[/i] chunk(well, compared to the slivers I usually cut up) with hardly any difficulty. First he tried to get away, but I wouldn't let him so he just kept chewing it. It was probably around 1/2in wide and 1in long and pretty thick. He's my oldest, so it surprises me how well he does with new foods. He's always been like that. He just doesn't care. I'll probably get some more chicken breast/thigh tomorrow and I'll cut up some slivers for them. Nestle and Penny are still doing good
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