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Post by Celene on Jan 6, 2015 13:43:20 GMT -5
Haha @muchasbellas I don't think hand-feeding is the way to go. Nova will already eat small chunks, and Mocha flat up refuses no matter what I do. I seem to have better luck sneaking it into her regular grind
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 13:50:15 GMT -5
I tried the warm water, and started with Mocha in my lap (on a towel for cleanliness in case of spillage). She was really patient with refusing the meat at first, but eventually did the big exasperated ferret sigh and squirmed off. I forgot to mention that I did get her to eat two pieces of fat (not skin) that I had trimmed and was quite proud of her for that. The actual meat though she had absolutely no interest in until I mixed it with the ground. I think I am just going to keep adding the chicken thigh to their grind in slightly larger pieces. Is there anything I need to worry about nutrient-balance-wise? Their commercial grind is 70% meat, 20% heart and 10% liver, plus bone (chicken or turkey in those varieties, otherwise buffalo bone powder). Yesterday I added in a little powdered egg shell, but should I also be mixing in some extra heart or liver? I don't think you need to add any extra heart or liver. To mimic eating whole prey on the frankenprey diet, Heart is ten percent of their weekly intake. Taurine is water soluable and won't build up in their system. Liver is 5 percent and another organ is 5 percent of their weekly intake. Liver is not water soluable and can build up in their system, so you want to stick with the five percent of their weekly intake being liver. If you add extra eggshell, just keep an eye out and make sure that their poops are not too firm. You had a bad first experience with gizzards, but don't give up on them. They're a great muscle meat, they help build jaw strength and are so good for cleaning teeth.
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Post by Celene on Jan 7, 2015 0:41:40 GMT -5
Today I bought some wings! I harvested the meat from the shoulders, smashed the upper arms for when they're better at bone and froze them. I smashed the wing tips a little and froze all but one. I woke Nova up and held her on my lap and offered her the wing tip. She loved it! I held it by the "elbow" while she chewed it for over 25 minutes with absolute delight! She made it through about 1/3 of the wing and ate the bones, but couldn't seem to chew the skin. A couple times I pulled it out of her mouth and the skin hanging was about an inch long, all of it she had in her mouth while she kept trying to chew further up the bone. I am convinced she has non gag reflexes whatsoever. She didn't seem to be making any progress with the skin so I tried to pull it out of her mouth to cut it off... Needless to say it became a massive tug 'o' war. Eventually I got the 1.5" piece out of her mouth and pulled it off the rest of the wing. I tried to offer her the rest of the wing to keep chewing but she was no longer interested Mocha had absolutely NO interest in any wings. I fed them venison today and when I came home there was a lot left so I don't think she ate any/much. I threw it out and added new venison for them, mixed with some chicken thigh meat cut into tiny pieces. Nova had her dinner but Mocha just sniffed it and walked away. I mixed it with a little water to make it soupier and added some salmon oil - as soon as she saw what I was doing she ran up to see what the new food was. Again, just sniffed it and walked away. Finally, I took the food dish and her into my lap and then she decided it wasn't poison and started eating it. She ate all that was left, presumably making up for starving herself all day.
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Post by Celene on Jan 7, 2015 0:50:54 GMT -5
In other non-switch related news (but not significant enough to warrant its own thread) I found rescue remedy at my local health food store!
Technically it's the human version, but the holistic consultant assured me it was identical in every way to the pet one, except for branding. I will look into more before testing it on them. I also bought the chewable version to try myself to see if it actually works since I am a bit of a skeptic*. I took two even though it said to chew one as needed, and now I'm feeling a little drowsy and out of it. Not sure it it's the rescue remedy or the time of day plus placebo effect.
*I'm not a skeptic of herbal remedies, simply that I have bought/used a number of "sleepy time" teas to help me with insomnia (husband snoring) and none of them have ever contained any of the herbs used in RR.
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Post by Celene on Jan 8, 2015 10:36:49 GMT -5
Morning weigh-in: Mocha Nova 06-Jan-14 1.70 1.60 08-Jan-14 1.64 1.63 I don't think my husband will be pleased that they are the same weight; he's taken to calling Nova "Big Nono" when she's heavier and "little n" when she's lighter than Mocha. Interestingly enough, none of his (million) nicknames for Mocha reference her size/weight. The last two days I've been mixing small pieces of chicken muscle with their grind. There is usually some left in the bottom, but not as much as I've been putting in, so it IS getting eaten. I've seen Mocha crazy-chew a couple times so I know she's responsible for at least some of it. In furtherance of dental health, I been trying to find some sort of healthy "chew" for them. Yesterday I brought home dried salmon fillet strips (wild-caught in BC, no smoking, salt, sugar or preservatives added). They're really stinky, but I figured if Mocha likes salmon oil maybe she can be tricked into eating these. They're quite stinky Nova LOOVED them, but Mocha wouldn't even sniff. I think I will try cutting them into narrower strips, letting her chew a few seconds on an nbone and then "bait and switch" for the salmon. I know if/when she ever tries it she'll love it. Overall they've been really good though, so I think a quail egg each tonight is in order! Of unrelated but interesting behavioural news, the girls were up and active this morning! Normally they sleep in the mornings while I'm getting ready for work (6 am - 7:50 am) but today when I got out of the shower they were both standing at the cage door! Apparently they weren't too impressed that, unlike most mornings, they didn't awake to find a fresh bowl of food, because they took turns running between the third floor of the cage (where the food is kept) and the kitchen (where they know I prepare the food). They were also both really active this morning and dooked at the same time, which is an absolute first. They aren't very vocal, so when they DO dook, it's usually just a single, or two in quick succession (except when one of them gets carried away wresting and pins too long, then you here the quick "chatter" sound).Needless to say, I am probably going to be late for work today.
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Post by RedSky on Jan 8, 2015 11:12:52 GMT -5
I'm sure Mocha will get there, she is just taking her time about it.
With RR I've never seen a pet one, I've always used the human one with my dog and gave the ferrets some in their water the first couple of days home. Didn't seem to have any negative effects, but I didn't wait for them to show stress before adding it so can't be sure how well it worked opposed to their natural calmness and curiosity in new situations. I've used a few of their other products (not the chewable pastels though) and they do a bottle of stuff specifically to help with sleeping, rather than just the normal RR. I read the ingredients and it's different stuff so I've never used it with the pets just incase but I keep it in my bed side table and use it if I can't sleep or keep waking up. Not sure if it's a placebo effect or what but works better for me than other herbal tables (some of which actually made me hyper...).
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Post by Celene on Jan 8, 2015 12:01:34 GMT -5
Off topic, but if you have trouble sleeping RedSky Celestial Seasoning's Sleepy Time tea is amazing! Pukka also makes a great Night Time one. I find teas work better for me than tablets (maybe because they're warm and soothing). I used to drink tea with valerian root which WILL knock you right out, but I find it makes me feel really drowsy the next morning. Right now my favourite is a local tea that (among other things) includes hops, catnip, damiana and skullcap. In regards to the "pet" rescue remedy, it has the same ingredients/herbs as the "human" one. The difference it that the human RR has an alcohol base where as the pet RR uses vegetable glycerin.
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Post by RedSky on Jan 8, 2015 12:14:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the links, I shall have a look to see if I can get my hands on them. I do often have trouble sleeping and always have, although I do go through periods where I could sleep all day and night without trouble.
Regarding the RR, I don't think my pets mind being a bit tipsy! And everyone deserves to let their hair down once in a while. But in serious I think that the amount given isn't enough to really effect them, but would love to know if there is a problem.
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Post by Celene on Jan 9, 2015 11:38:46 GMT -5
So yesterday was chicken day, and I have to say that I'm kind of scared to feed it again because of how much they love it and just pig out! I feed them together, but since Mocha eats faster than Nova I was worried Nova wouldn't get enough so I took her and the dish out of the cage and onto my lap so she could eat some before Mocha could inhale it... Needless to say Mocha was extremely jealous and not entirely pleased.
I gave them the rest of the chicken this morning (plus a quail egg each) which they nomm'ed down on like they hadn't eaten in days! I had defrosted some kangaroo for today but realized at the last minute that they hadn't had that protein before so probably wouldn't touch it until I spoon fed some to them first. I was running late so I grabbed some NV duck out of the freezer and dumped it into the bowl... I really hope they won't try eating it until it's thawed.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 17:30:56 GMT -5
They are really moving along nicely.
Nova may need a feeding den for some privacy or maybe you can find a way to separate them during meal times. Mocha may also slow down some, once she gets caught up and realizes this new food is going to keep coming.
You mentioned Salmon. Fish can be a great once a week meal or treat. Look for freshwater fish. Smelt is a great choice. Mine love Cod and Roamy goes crazy over shrimp.
If you have a need to give treats, that's something that can usually be found in a pet store. Look in the Cat section and you can find 100 percent pure freeze dried fish treats. Just check the ingredients and make sure that it's simply pure fish and nothing added.
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Post by Celene on Jan 9, 2015 18:16:20 GMT -5
@poncesmom, I wasn't looking so much for treats as I was looking for something hard/chewable to clean their teeth while I work up to bigger pieces of meat then bone. Obviously, most chewable/dental treats in the pet store are crap. The salmon is thin dried strips that have nothing added. What is the benefit to freshwater over seawater? I don't know what salmon would count as since they live in both. Nova loves FDR bits but I've never been able to get Mocha to eat any non-liquid (i.e. salmon oil or eggs) treats except nbones which I know are bad.
I know once I get a mentor I will probably need to weigh their food separately, but right now I am leaving food out during the day so I can't monitor them. Mocha isn't a huge food-bully for anything except chicken though. Most of the time she won't touch red meat until I spoon feed her some soupier bit and then she's like "oh yeah, this stuff is edible".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 18:43:27 GMT -5
@poncesmom, I wasn't looking so much for treats as I was looking for something hard/chewable to clean their teeth while I work up to bigger pieces of meat then bone. Obviously, most chewable/dental treats in the pet store are crap. The salmon is thin dried strips that have nothing added. What is the benefit to freshwater over seawater? I don't know what salmon would count as since they live in both. Nova loves FDR bits but I've never been able to get Mocha to eat any non-liquid (i.e. salmon oil or eggs) treats except nbones which I know are bad. I know once I get a mentor I will probably need to weigh their food separately, but right now I am leaving food out during the day so I can't monitor them. Mocha isn't a huge food-bully for anything except chicken though. Most of the time she won't touch red meat until I spoon feed her some soupier bit and then she's like "oh yeah, this stuff is edible". I know that you had a scare with gizzards, but they are your best option for cleaning teeth, aside from bone and brushing their teeth. Do you feel comfortable enough to try to brush their teeth. I think we talked about using gauze and some of the toothbrushing products. The N Bones have always been frowned upon, but now they have a formula change and really aren't a good product. One thing that you could do is make your own Jerkey. Here is a link: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/5840/home-freeze-dried-jerky-treatsYou want to avoid Saltwater fish for two reasons. One is the amount of salt, a saltwater fish has in it. Two is the mercury levels that are found in saltwater fish. That brings up a good question, we do all use Salmon oil. From what I've read and from reading my bottle of oil, the sodium is removed during processing. I love a chance to learn something so... I'm going to tag katt. She lived in Alaska and now is in Washington. If anyone knows anything about Salmon, it will be Katt.
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Post by Celene on Jan 9, 2015 18:55:18 GMT -5
I live in Vancouver, BC so I eat *a lot* of salmon. It actually has about the same sodium levels as lake fish such as cod, trout, smelt, etc. Salmon also has fairly low levels of mercury (depending on location) as they are lower down on the food chain. (Mercury builds up in fish so the higher up on the food chain, the larger the mercury levels, which is why tuna has high levels of it.)
Thanks for the link on freeze-drying and jerkying though, super helpful! I brush Mocha's teeth, but Nova is super paranoid about it for some reason. She'll let me poke around in her ears and everything, but the second I come near her teeth she loses her mind. Within the next week I'll be receiving my oxyfresh, which includes the water additive. As far as my research can tell it's completely safe but the enzymes help break down plaque on teeth.
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Post by Celene on Jan 9, 2015 18:57:56 GMT -5
I should mention that farmed salmon (which is most of what's available when you're not on the west coast) does have higher levels of mercury and other contaminants. The strips I bought are from wild though and manufactured in Richmond, BC
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 21:31:27 GMT -5
You are such a sweetheart! I'm glad you rescued those babies and that they are happier now! They are really cute and beautiful ferts and I LOVE their names. And Mocha should come around! My one fert in the beginning wouldn't touch any raw for a few days but now, after a month or so, he loves to eat bone-in meat
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