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Post by Celene on Dec 28, 2014 1:28:21 GMT -5
I am on the wait list for a mentor, but decided to start logging my journey because it's probably better than trying to keep it all in my head. Today actually marks the one week anniversary of my girls eating full raw (I started the week before feeding raw for dinner and leaving kibble out the rest of the time. Not sure if there's a template/format I should follow but for this first post I'm just going to include EVERYTHING about them and their diet. First date feeding partial raw (one daily): December 10, 2014 Frist date feeding only raw (no kibble): December 20, 2014 Weight (lbs): Mocha NovaNovember 15: 1.45 1.60 December 13: 1.45 1.60 December 19: 1.40 1.60 December 23: 1.52 1.55 Age (approx): 3 years 2 years I am currently feeding a commercial raw grind ( Red Dog Blue Cat) which contains 98% meat (muscle, 20% heart, 10% liver, bone) and 2% juiced veggies (mostly low carb/sugar like leafy greens). The chicken and turkey ones contain chicken/turkey bone while the others have buffalo bone powder. I generally put a couple drops of salmon oil on top and mix in some egg (chicken yolk or whole quail) every few days. So far they've tried chicken, turkey, lamb, buffalo, venison and beef. The first time I fed beef Nova had REALLY liquidy green diarrhea so it might be a potential food sensitivity or just her digestive system getting used to it. Their poops started quite soft, but I've been adding a tiny amount of ground eggshells every second day and they seem normal now. I've noticed they have quite a bit of fur in their poops, but they are both shedding right now (note to self: feed another egg yolk tomorrow). Prior to the raw switch they were on a blend of 3 kibble: Go! Fit and Free, Orijen and NV Instinct Raw Boost. I started feeding them raw egg once a week late October/early November. Additional background: We adopted Mocha and Nova in May from a lady on craigslist (our first baby, Truffles, passed away in January). They had already been through a few owners in their short lives and mostly kept in a cage and fed crap kibble. Nova was severely underweight and terrified of everyone and everything, we think she was likely abused. The lady told us Nova was roughly 1.5 years and Mocha 2.5, and she had never taken either to a vet (and as far as she knew neither had any previous owners). She didn't even ask me if I knew anything about ferrets or had a proper set up. She handed them over without asking me a SINGLE question, and never followed up with me to see how they were doing. Anyway, they are much happier now and have grown to trust and love us. Hopefully this wasn't too ramble-y, here are some pictures: First week (May)
Last week (December) Bonus: Cuddles
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2014 12:00:48 GMT -5
Your Mocha and Nova are really lovely. I'm glad they found such a good home and I hope that they forget whatever else, they have been thru. Those little faces are too precious.
What is your plan for the girls? Currently you are on the Red Dog Blue Cat commercial grind. Do you want to stay on that or are you going to move to the Frankenprey menu?
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Post by Celene on Dec 28, 2014 13:28:12 GMT -5
My goal is to move them to frankenprey - I think I am going to wait for a mentor before starting that switch though. I know Nova will be MUCH easier than Mocha. I took the turkey heart/liver from the xmas turkey and cut it into tiny pieces (I think would be "sliver" size but I can't find the sticky right now for some reason). I was able to get Nova to eat it with a bit of salmon oil, but Mocha wouldn't go anywhere near it - at one point I did get a piece into her mouth and she spit it out.
Since then I've been mixing it into the commercial grind (just the heart mostly since the grind already contains liver and I don't want to overdo it). I froze the rest for once they're on frankenprey and need organ meals.
Oh, and I weighed them again this morning: Mocha is 1.62 lbs and Nova is 1.54 lbs (I think this was mostly empty stomachs).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2014 13:36:38 GMT -5
We always get one easy one and one stubborn one.
Slivers are easier for them. They teeth are designed to tear and chew. Try cutting a few slivers up and put them on a plate. Pick up Mocha and stand at the sink. Turn on some nice warm/hot water. With her tucked into your arm, run the sliver under some warm water. That will release the smell. Then offer it to her. Hold her until she accepts the sliver. You can put her down if she does, but watch and see if she eats it. If she drops it, then pick her up and try again. Do this a few times until she eats the piece. Try a long thin sliver that looks like this: #########
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Post by Celene on Dec 28, 2014 13:41:30 GMT -5
Will do! Is chicken muscle the easiest meat to offer as slivers to start with?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2014 13:43:25 GMT -5
Chicken is great for a first protein. Chicken thigh is fattier, (leave the skin on) and less expensive. It also has more Taurine in it. Chicken breast is expensive and leaner. Fat equals energy for ferrets, so I prefer the thigh meat.
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Post by Celene on Dec 29, 2014 15:12:27 GMT -5
Got a good pic this morning that shows their size/girth so thought I'd include. They're eating quail eggs (1 ea) with most of the whites poured out since they're shedding like crazy and I'm worried about hairballs since their poops are full of fur.
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Post by Celene on Jan 2, 2015 13:41:58 GMT -5
So after a few days of diligent weighing, I've figured out that they are eating a combined 3 oz a day (give or take, it varies of course and I have thrown a bit of dried food out which is hard to calculate weight-wise). Also, their most recent weigh-ins: Mocha Nova 30-Dec-14 1.59 1.53 02-Jan-14 1.70 1.53 I'm glad that neither are losing weight (because that would definitely be bad) but I'm a little worried about how much weight Mocha has gained. She was 1.45 lbs pre-raw (in November) and definitely seems a lot bigger. Having said that, her extra chubbiness + super fluffy winter coat makes her an amazing little cuddle monster . I've also stopped mixing their proteins within a day so I can better monitor for food sensitivities and stuff. Today is lamb!
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Post by Celene on Jan 3, 2015 13:43:52 GMT -5
I am including this in my journal as it is a fairly significant event in terms of feeding.
Yesterday I bought some chicken thigh and cut some slivers. Nova took to it immediately and even ate a couple large chunks and a piece of meat with smashed bone!
Mocha green-eggs-and-hammed it. I tried "scruff and stuff" and put it on her tongue when she yawned and she spit it out each time. I tried dipping the end in salmon oil and dangling it for her to lick. After the first time she accidentally got it in her mouth and freaked out and wouldn't even lick it after.
I cut the slivers even smaller and mixed it into their ground lamb. Mocha carefully ate the lamb around the chicken, and when she would accidentally pick up a piece of chicken she'd spit it out on the place mat BESIDE THE BOWL. Finally, I cut the chicken so finely it was just slightly larger than their commercial grind chunks and mixed it in.
This is where things got interesting. True to the GE&H story, once she DID (accidentally) chew and eat some, she realized she loved it. I was really excited when she ate it all, and put some more in so Nova could have some. Well basically Mocha just gorged herself and her belly was SO fully that it was actually tight like a balloon about to burst. She looked huge and waddled when she tried to play. I was worried the sudden swelling was because of a blockage preventing the food from travelling through (although she wasn't puking) so gave her a little (sugar-free) lax.
She eventually went to sleep. When I checked on her a little later she didn't move. I put the eye dropper of salmon oil into her mouth and she didn't so much as twitch. I had a minute or two of panic until I realized it was ferret dead sleep, which she had only done once before. My husband pointed out that it was basically like a human after thanksgiving dinner (over-eat, get bloated, fall into a food coma).
She had a bunch of gross grey-ish poops, which I am assuming/hoping is undigested fat as a result of her eating some of the skin and the lax. She seems fine this morning although her appetite is still huge. She has gone from about 1.2-1.3 lbs in the summer to 1.4 lbs in November (some winter weight but pre-raw) to 1.7 lbs now! Definitely a stocky looking girl. I don't want to limit her food yet though because I've read that ferrets eat a lot when starting raw to make up for lost nutrients.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2015 14:26:03 GMT -5
Mocha is a very pretty little piglet. Good for her. She's eating more now and stuffing herself to make up for lost nutrients. Don't worry, she will slow down. She certainly ate herself into a nice DFS. We're already anxious beginning a switch and then someone goes and does something to worry us more. I think they are pulling our chain and getting a good giggle out of scaring Mom.
Both of their weights are good.
You'll get all kinds of strange poops during a switch. When they are seedy looking, then that's undigested fats.
Instead of scruff and stuff, try sitting on the floor and put Mocha or Nova on your lap. Place a hand underneath them, just to let them know you are there. Then try offering a sliver. You can also stand at the sink and run a piece under some warm water, then offer it to them.
They really are moving forward nicely. :thumbsup:
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Post by Celene on Jan 3, 2015 14:35:44 GMT -5
I tried the warm water, and started with Mocha in my lap (on a towel for cleanliness in case of spillage). She was really patient with refusing the meat at first, but eventually did the big exasperated ferret sigh and squirmed off. I forgot to mention that I did get her to eat two pieces of fat (not skin) that I had trimmed and was quite proud of her for that. The actual meat though she had absolutely no interest in until I mixed it with the ground.
I think I am just going to keep adding the chicken thigh to their grind in slightly larger pieces. Is there anything I need to worry about nutrient-balance-wise? Their commercial grind is 70% meat, 20% heart and 10% liver, plus bone (chicken or turkey in those varieties, otherwise buffalo bone powder). Yesterday I added in a little powdered egg shell, but should I also be mixing in some extra heart or liver?
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Post by Celene on Jan 6, 2015 10:19:55 GMT -5
Dear Diary, Last night Mocha gave me a real scare and kept me up most of the night with worry. Rather than repeat the (rather long and drawn out) story here, I will link to my panic-post: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/17235/food-caught-mouth-chokingI weighed them this morning: Mocha Nova 02-Jan-14 1.70 1.53 06-Jan-14 1.70 1.60 So not much change. I also forgot to mention that Sunday (Jan 4) I fed them buffalo and they barely ate any of it all day. I sniffed it and it didn't smell any worse than raw meat usually does. I tried spoon feeding each and they reluctantly took a couple tiny bites, but I just don't think they like it. Today is venison. I won't be adding any gizzards to their food until tonight because I'm scared Mocha will have another episode while I'm gone. Yours Truly, Celene PS: I think Mocha's weight gain is making her lazy. This is the second time I've caught her trying to have breakfast in bed.
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Post by RedSky on Jan 6, 2015 10:33:47 GMT -5
She is so cute having breakfast in bed. That is so much like something my Bolin would do, he is a lazy lump too.
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Post by Celene on Jan 6, 2015 12:07:29 GMT -5
Mocha never used to be lazy, she was always quite dainty and precise! Her weight gain/laziness is coinciding with her raw transition, but I'm hoping/assuming it's mostly just seasonal since she just finished growing in a thick, fluffy coat. I adopted her (and Nova) in May so this is my first winter with them, Nova just finished a massive shed, but her fur is quite short and soft so I think it's still coming in. She hasn't really gained any weight though. My first baby Truffles (DIP) never had any seasonal weight/coat fluctuations so this is all new to me
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 12:57:37 GMT -5
My little Eris gained quite a bit of weight this winter. She can't fit underneath the door anymore hehe. I'm glad they're taking to their new food okay. With frankenprey it just requires a bit of patience and persistence. I had to spoon feed evanna for a very long time lol.
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