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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 21:34:13 GMT -5
Thurs, 12/18
Flexie is learning to eat FDR! It's so exciting!
Leela AM: 0.8 oz. FDR PM: 0.8 oz. FDR
Flexie AM:? PM: 0.7 oz. FDR
Mitch AM: 1.7 oz. MPC rabbit + 1/4 bone meal powder PM: 1.6 oz. MPC rabbit + 1/4 bone meal powder
Mango AM: 1.0 oz. quail PM: 1.1 oz. chicken hearts
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Post by Desiree on Dec 19, 2014 22:14:55 GMT -5
Okay I wrote a whole novel and then thought someone answered it. Rewriting now.
When feeding raw, it's actually okay for them to eat twice a day, with good sized meals and then they will snack if they are hungry. Even if they don't snack, which mine rarely do at the moment, I don't leave anything but raw with them. Mainly because I don't want the kibble and raw to mix and I also don't want them to fill up on other food while we are working on bone. My insu girl gets fed three times a day, she has food overnight but rarely eats unless she has her stash available. I kept kibble away after three days once they started eating enough per meal. I still have to hand feed mine and they barely eat on their own but my feeling is that they will eat for me so if they go hungry with food right there they can wait till I get home. They aren't going to waste away if they don't eat for a few hours.
Gravy is great method BUT if he is eating slivers without the gravy I would continue with that. Don't introduce it if you don't have too. I would just keep at the current size until he is eating on his own and then up it again. You can add a bit of warm water which I what I do now to encourage him to eat.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 22:25:47 GMT -5
Regardless of Insu or not ferrets should eat every 6 hours or so, katt explains this well. Gravy works well for me also, mine are pretty good at eating their snacks on their own, but when I'm home/have time I hand feed them, it's great for bonding and to make sure they each eat what they're supposed to.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 23:01:52 GMT -5
Okay I wrote a whole novel and then thought someone answered it. Rewriting now. When feeding raw, it's actually okay for them to eat twice a day, with good sized meals and then they will snack if they are hungry. Even if they don't snack, which mine rarely do at the moment, I don't leave anything but raw with them. Mainly because I don't want the kibble and raw to mix and I also don't want them to fill up on other food while we are working on bone. My insu girl gets fed three times a day, she has food overnight but rarely eats unless she has her stash available. I kept kibble away after three days once they started eating enough per meal. I still have to hand feed mine and they barely eat on their own but my feeling is that they will eat for me so if they go hungry with food right there they can wait till I get home. They aren't going to waste away if they don't eat for a few hours. Gravy is great method BUT if he is eating slivers without the gravy I would continue with that. Don't introduce it if you don't have too. I would just keep at the current size until he is eating on his own and then up it again. You can add a bit of warm water which I what I do now to encourage him to eat. Today was the girls' first day to have NO kibble. I came home, and the entire 2 oz. of FDR that I left for them was still there. They had not eaten for over 12 hours. I hand-fed them as soon as I got home, and they ate just fine. These stinky girls... Now, I have a question for you, Desiree. How do you know both of your ferrets are eating? My girls are free-roam together, and it's hard for me to know who is eating what. I left 1 oz. of FDR as night snack last night, and it was all gone. But I'm not sure which one ate it. My bet is on Leela, but I can't be sure. How do you keep track? My boys live in their own ferret nation during the day, so I know exactly how much each boy is eating. But with free-roam girls, I can only guess.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 23:08:32 GMT -5
Regardless of Insu or not ferrets should eat every 6 hours or so, katt explains this well. Gravy works well for me also, mine are pretty good at eating their snacks on their own, but when I'm home/have time I hand feed them, it's great for bonding and to make sure they each eat what they're supposed to. I love hand-feeding them too! You are right, I feed more connected with my ferrets feeding them this way. I don't always have time to do so, especially in the morning. (I'm always in a hurry, no matter what time I wake up!) If ferrets should eat every 6 hours, that's 4 meals a day? Come to think of it, Mango likes to split his meal over a few settings. He eats right after he comes out of his cage, and he starts stashing. Then after a few hours, he wants to go back to his food. Maybe it would be a good idea to leave their food on their plate until the next meal time, just in case they want to revisit their dinner.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 23:24:14 GMT -5
Here's another revision of Mango’s weekly meal plan:
Mon AM: Edible bone-in meat (chicken wings) Mon PM: ½ Hearts + ¼ liver, ¼ other organ (½ chicken hearts + ¼ chicken liver + ¼ pork kidney)
Tue AM: Edible bone-in meat (CGH) Tue PM: Edible bone-in meat (chicken or turkey neck)
Wed AM: Edible bone-in meat (quail) Wed PM: muscle meat (pork loin)
Thur AM: Edible bone-in meat (chicken or turkey neck) Thur PM: Hearts (chicken hearts)
Fri AM: Edible bone-in meat (chicken wings) Fri PM: ½ liver + ½ other organ (½ chicken liver + ½ pork kidney)
Sat AM: Edible bone-in meat (CGH) Sat PM: Muscle meat (chicken or turkey gizzards)
Sun AM: Edible bone-in meat (quail) Sun PM: muscle meat (beef steak)
8- Edible bone-in meat 1.5 - Hearts 3- Muscle meat 1.5- organ -------------------------------- = 14 meals
If hearts count as muscle meat, does that make my menu 4.5 muscle? I know it's supposed to be 3-4. Is this too much muscle?
Also, I had to drop turkey thigh from the menu to squeeze in another bone-in meal. How can I work that back in my menu?
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Post by Desiree on Dec 19, 2014 23:46:30 GMT -5
Maybe do half turkey thigh/half chicken or turkey gizzards. so the goal is 3 to 4 muscle meats a week with one being full hearts, then you serve the other half with the organs. So yes it can come up to 4.5 muscles meals technically. With the muscle meats, watch for the poops, if they are too loose, add another bone in, if they seem good then you are fine.
I don't know who eats what when I am gone. I only record the amount they eat with me. I am able to feed three times a day so I record all the amounts but sometimes, especially recently I have to guess. They are starting to grab from the plate and go off to eat. I think that's why we also do weekly weigh ins. As long as they maintain their weight they are eating enough. I'm not sure if that is correct but I think so.
I know that the menu you post for graduating is two meals but you want to make sure there is enough left over for snacking through out the day or night. I tend to leave an ounce (out of four) on their plates during the day and night. They are never without food. Sometimes it's gone, sometimes it isn't. When they are free roam they have their stashes hid in various places. I try to keep track of where they are at. When I got home today, someone ate their stash in their den (my pantry) and ate nothing off the plate. As long as they are eating I don't mind too much, unless it's in the morning. Riot will fill up on his stash at night if I let him, so he doesn't get his stash at night in his cage. (I only cage at night)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 0:15:28 GMT -5
Okay, well I wrote the entire reply then my laptop crashed ... lets try this again lol Ferrets only get 2 meals per day, snacks are little bits here and there. Like, we humans should have 3 meals per day, breakfast, lunch and dinner, but we snack in between. A snack can be 0.5+ oz of soup, some slivers, some jerky, etc. Your menu looks good except on Monday PM you have 1/4 Liver and 1/4 Liver, you need 1/4 OTHER organ, like kidney, spleen, brain, etc. Liver can build up in their systems and cause Vitamin A Toxicity, it takes a lot but is something to be aware of. We don't count half a meal of hearts as a full muscle meat meal, so no you don't have too much muscle meat, it really just depends on how your ferrets poops are, some can handle more and some can't. If you want to have turkey thigh, you can switch it out with a different muscle meal or you can just have it for your next menu.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 0:15:53 GMT -5
Half & half is a thought. I didn't see how I could incorporate a wide variety of proteins in only 3-4 muscle meals. I'm trying not to feed them chicken as muscle meal, as they already have chicken wings and CGH as their bone-in breakfast. I should try turkey thigh/gizzards! That's a great idea.
I guess there's really not a good way to tell how much they are actually eating, if there are multiple ferrets living together. I was hoping for a magic bullet, but it's not that easy, huh? lol
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 0:22:20 GMT -5
Okay, well I wrote the entire reply then my laptop crashed [img src="http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/ .png" src="http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/ .png"] ... lets try this again lol Ferrets only get 2 meals per day, snacks are little bits here and there. Like, we humans should have 3 meals per day, breakfast, lunch and dinner, but we snack in between. A snack can be 0.5+ oz of soup, some slivers, some jerky, etc. Your menu looks good except on Monday PM you have 1/4 Liver and 1/4 Liver, you need 1/4 OTHER organ, like kidney, spleen, brain, etc. Liver can build up in their systems and cause Vitamin A Toxicity, it takes a lot but is something to be aware of. We don't count half a meal of hearts as a full muscle meat meal, so no you don't have too much muscle meat, it really just depends on how your ferrets poops are, some can handle more and some can't. If you want to have turkey thigh, you can switch it out with a different muscle meal or you can just have it for your next menu. Argh! That's frustrating. I was using Firefox until a few days ago. I wrote this big whiny post about Mitch not eating, and it froze up... My head was already about to explode from Mitch's issue, I just could not take it any longer... lol I switched to Google chrome, and so far it hasn't given me any problems. Computer problems are the worst! Oh! That "pork liver" was supposed to be pork kidney. Thanks for noticing. I'll edit it. I was not aware of Vitamin A toxicity either... I'll have to look into this. it's good to know!
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Post by Desiree on Dec 20, 2014 0:25:07 GMT -5
As far as I know, no. Unless they are in cages separately at all times. I tried to keep my two apart when feeding but if one wants to eat off the plate, stopping them seems like going backwards so while one eats in my lap, the other samples from the plate. Not really eating more like investigating but they eat a chunk or two and then I switch. I get a weight on the food before and a weigh afterward and I am getting better at telling how much is what amount in weight.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 10:25:04 GMT -5
Fri, 12/19
Leela AM: 1.0 oz FDR PM: 1.0 oz FDR
Flexie AM: none- first day without kibble! I left some FDR in her bowl, but she didn't touch it. Here's my stratery change: I will leave some kibble out until I know she will eat FDR or soupie on her own. PM: 1.0 oz FDR- hand-fed
Mitch AM: 2.2 oz. soupie PM: 1.8 oz. soupie
Mango AM: 1.7 oz. quail PM: 1.7 oz. organ puree (chicken liver + pork kidney), 0.9 soupie (Mitch's left over)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 14:26:51 GMT -5
Sat, 12/20
Leela AM: 1.0 oz. FDR PM: 1.6 oz. soupie + FDR -she's been accepting slivers in her soupie! She carried a piece of turkey to a feeding den and ate it there. Although she still doesn't eat soupie without FDR, I think she's on the right track.
Flexie AM: 0.4 oz. FDR PM: 0.3 oz. FDR -I put 1.0 oz. kibble out for her to eat over night. She ate about half of that.
Mitch AM: 1.2 oz. CGH + 0.5 oz. FDR "gravy" PM: 2.3 oz. soupie + turkey slivers -He didn't like too many big sliver chunks in his soup, so I had to cut them up even smaller to make it seem less chunky. He eats so much more if he doesn't have to chew much. Lazy ferret!
Mango AM: 1.7 oz. CGH PM: 1.5 oz. turkey
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 16:58:24 GMT -5
Weekly weigh-in time!
Leela: 787g (down 15g) Flexie: 921g (down 22g) Mitch: 1978g (up 81g) Mango: 1725g (up 11g)
Everybody maintained their weight pretty steadily this week. No major gain or loss.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2014 23:19:55 GMT -5
Sun, 12/21
Leela AM: kibble? PM: 1.3 oz. Soupie + FDR + turkey sliver mix
Flexie kibble all day
Mitch AM: 2.7 oz. soupie + turkey sliver mix PM: 2.5 oz. MPC duck -Adding some soup gravy to his turkey meat worked for a little while, then he would lick the gravy off the slivers and run away. I had to cut up the slivers a little bit more and add more soup so he couldn't eat around the chunks.
Mango AM: 1.2 oz. quail PM: 1.2 oz. beef steak -Ok, I'm starting to think Mango doesn't like quail. I left the quail chunks all day until Monday morning, and that was all he ate. I might have to find another bone-in source, if he doesn't like it much.
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