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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 16:25:54 GMT -5
I think we need some Senior Mentor Advice: I'm tagging bitbyter and katt.
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Post by katt on Dec 15, 2014 16:36:15 GMT -5
He was eating meat fine but now won't eat anything at all? Definitely time for a vet trip; that sounds like more than a stubborn fuzz to me. :/ Is there anything he Will eat right now?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 20:12:44 GMT -5
We have an eater! Mitch ate 2.2 oz. of ground rabbit and soupie mix this morning, and he just ate 2.3 oz. of just the MPC ground rabbit for dinner today. He actually ate a little bit of different food yesterday for breakfast (log below), but then he didn't eat anything until this morning. He just found a piece of quail in his brother's cage, and I watched him eat it. I am so happy that he is eating today! This is Mitch eating his bunny. @julesalot, his energy was very high when he wasn't eating the last couple days. He wrestled with his brother, and chased his sisters in the tubes. I didn't see him grind his teeth or any other indication that he was in pain either. katt, yes, I raised him on FDR and commercial ground meat twice a day, and free access to kibble in the cage all day. So he knows meat is food. He is eating again today, but I will watch him very closely. I will take him to the vet if necessary. He has permanently injured hips. Some days he's more tame than other days. He's been doing post surgery therapy (basically swimming in the tub for half hour every other day), and he has regained strength in his legs. But the vet said arthritis could become a problem later. He didn't seem to be in pain, as he was playing with other ferrets just fine. But I do wonder if he wasn't feeling 100%. I always worry in the back of my head that he might be in pain but he is hiding it well Sun, 12/14 Leela AM: 1.1 oz FDR + soupie (I increased the FDR to soupie ratio to about 7:3, but she still ate it! Yes!) Day: 0.5 oz FDR PM: kibble? Flexie AM: 0.4 FDR Day: kibble Mitch- I tried to give him different things to see if he would eat anything. He was really hungry! AM: 0.3 oz minced chicken neck 0.5 oz chicken gizzard 1.8 oz soupie PM: I left 1.0 oz of his favorite ziwipeak lamb in his cage, but he didn't even touch it. Mango AM: 1.5 oz quail PM: <3.0 oz turkey white meat (I watched him eat over half, but then he started to stash.) I am writing these information in my notebook. I will post the complete log from today after I get a chance to weigh what is left form the night time snack. I really appreciate everybody's support! I will keep an eye on Mitch very closely.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 20:22:54 GMT -5
That's great! He could have been feeling stubborn and not wanting to eat, could have been a lot of things, monitor him closely and watch for any signs of pain or discomfort and also weight loss and etc, and if he does this again take him to the Vet.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 8:00:59 GMT -5
12/15
Leela AM: Day: kibble PM: 1 oz FDR + soupie mix
Flexie kibble PM: She tried to lick FDR, but she doesn't seem to understand how to "eat" it. She licks the liquid out of the food, and she continues to lick the dry mass.... then she gives up, and leaves. So I gave her kibble to make sure that she is eating something.
Mitch AM: 2.2 oz MPC rabbit + soupie mix PM: 2.3 oz MPC rabbit
Mango AM: 1.0 oz quail PM: 1 oz. chicken hearts, 1 oz. chicken liver + pork kidney puree
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 13:14:48 GMT -5
With Flexie, try crumbling some of the FDR into a powder or small pieces and then make a gravy with warm water. You can either mix that in with her soupie, or try pouring it over some meat slivers.
You can also just make an FDR soup and then sit with her on your lap and try spoon feeding. Don't let her down until she has a few spoonfuls. When you put her on your lap, use your other hand and just place it under her. She will feel secure. Then offer the spoon. If she doesn't accept the spoon, dab your finger in it and put it on her mouth. Once she licks that off, try the spoon again.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 19:47:15 GMT -5
With Flexie, try crumbling some of the FDR into a powder or small pieces and then make a gravy with warm water. You can either mix that in with her soupie, or try pouring it over some meat slivers. You can also just make an FDR soup and then sit with her on your lap and try spoon feeding. Don't let her down until she has a few spoonfuls. When you put her on your lap, use your other hand and just place it under her. She will feel secure. Then offer the spoon. If she doesn't accept the spoon, dab your finger in it and put it on her mouth. Once she licks that off, try the spoon again. I put her on my lap, and I held her from under her. I offered some FDR on a spoon, and although she pushed it a lot of it off the spoon with her tongue as she tried to lick it, she ate more than usual this way! I tried to put some in her mouth too, but she didn't like it. I also tried to give her straight soupie, but she refused. I think I'll try to get her to be accustomed to FDR first. She already like the taste of FDR at least. I didn't think to use warm water. Mitch likes his food warm (spoiled brat), so I usually warm his food up in water bath. Maybe Flexie would like her food warm too. I'll try this next time I see her. Thanks so much, Poncesmom!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 20:34:51 GMT -5
12/16
I think the boys are taking turns to drive me crazy. Today Mango didn't have much appetite. He's under the couch napping with the gang right now, so I will try hand feeding him or maybe give him something other than pork. I'm not sure what the deal with him today.
Leela AM: 1.3 oz. FDR + soupie mix (I hand-fed her at first to prompt her eating, then I left her to eat on her own. She ate the whole thing by herself! I'm so thrilled about this life-time kibble eater doing such a great job.) PM: 1.4 oz FDR + soupie mix (I tried to offer just the soupie, but she didn't want it. Then I mixed in a little bit of FDR as usual. This batch of soupie was made for Mitch, so it had many bigger chunks, about the size of a thumb nail. But she ate most of it! I had never seen the muscles on the back of her ears move so actively. I love that she's starting to use the back of her teeth, and she can chomp! She also took a big piece out of the bowl, took it to Mango's feeding den and ate it there. Yes!)
Flexie AM: kibble PM: 0.4 oz FDR
Mitch AM: 2.6 oz soupie PM: 2.7 oz. soupie
Mango AM: 0.6 chicken wings (I might have to start hand feeding him too. He likes to stand on his back legs and beg for food. He doesn't eat much if I just put some food in his cage while he's still asleep in the morning. My solution is to get up early enough, so I will have time to let him out and play a little before work. So he would be awake and ready for his breakfast.) PM: a couple pieces of pork (thumb nail size) and he started to stash. I will try giving him something else to eat later. He ate pork just fine last week, but maybe he's just not feeling it today.
Edit: Mango woke up from his nap, and he ate 1.3 oz of pork and whatever chicken wings he didn't eat this morning. (So, about 1.5 oz left there, I think.) I freaked out a little too early for no reason. He wasn't hungry eariler, but then he had to catch up, I guess.
Edit #2: Using warm water made the food the consistency that Flexie can eat and like! She ate additional 0.8 oz. of FDR after her nap. I will repeat this method tomorrow morning. Yay!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 20:51:53 GMT -5
I forgot to log their weight too. Here's their weight record from Sunday.
Leela: 802g (up) Flexie: 943g (up) Mitch: 1897g (down) Mango: 1714g (down)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 20:38:41 GMT -5
I plugged in some meat that I've been feeding Mango into the basic menu. I've been giving him different things to see what he likes. The problem is, there are not enough days in a week to give him all the things he loves! He loves Mypetcarnivore grount meat, especially rabbit and duck. Can I feed him that on a muscle days? It contains bone, organs and muscle meat. It might throw off the nutrition. The package says "10% to 15% bone, about 10% organs, and the rest muscle and fat and connective tissue." Also, can I feed him MPC ground turkey neck as bone-in? It's so much easier for me to buy pre-ground neck than trying to smash them and chop them up. www.mypetcarnivore.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=23&virtuemart_category_id=16&lang=enMango’s weekly meal planMon AM: chicken wings (Edible bone-in meat) Mon PM: chicken hearts, chicken liver, pork kidney (½ Hearts + 1/4 liver, 1/4 other organ) Tue AM: CGH (Edible bone-in meat) Tue PM: beef steak (Muscle meat) Wed AM: quail (Edible bone-in meat) Wed PM: pork loin (muscle meat) Thur AM: ground turkey neck (Edible bone-in meat) Thur PM: chicken hearts (Hearts) Fri AM: chicken wings (Edible bone-in meat) Fri PM: chicken liver + pork kidney (½ liver, ½ other organ) Sat AM: CGH (Edible bone-in meat) Sat PM: turkey dark meat (Muscle meat) Sun AM: quail (Edible bone-in meat) Sun PM: chicken gizzards (muscle meat)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2014 20:50:34 GMT -5
Grinds don't give you the advantage of teeth cleaning and jaw strength building like bone does, you can but I find giving bone is best. Just give the neck a wack or two, it isn't with every bone-in, just some, I know poncesmom has to cut up/mash up her Mika's bones (sometimes or all the time) because she is a lazy chewer, she's been on raw for I'd like to say years, I'm not sure how long she's had her but she's on full frankenprey. Some just need some help.-- I just re-read it and I understand better now, lol, yes you can do ground neck if you want, I thought you meant having all bone through the grinder. But I'm not sure if that would count as a bone-in meal if it's ground. Will need some mentor help for this.
I'm not sure if you can do grinds to where they won't throw off the balance, I'd say no but I'm not familiar with them.
You have a little much of muscle meats on your menu, you have 7 bone-in and 5 muscle meals, it's generally 3-4 muscle meals. But you have to remember that Heart is a muscle meal and counts as one. You have a red meat meal (beef steak) which is good. Mine aren't huge fans of beef but they love Lamb, so funny how they all have different likes and dislikes, just as we do.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 20:59:57 GMT -5
Grinds don't give you the advantage of teeth cleaning and jaw strength building like bone does, you can but I find giving bone is best. Just give the neck a wack or two, it isn't with every bone-in, just some, I know poncesmom has to cut up/mash up her Mika's bones (sometimes or all the time) because she is a lazy chewer, she's been on raw for I'd like to say years, I'm not sure how long she's had her but she's on full frankenprey. Some just need some help.-- I just re-read it and I understand better now, lol, yes you can do ground neck if you want, I thought you meant having all bone through the grinder. But I'm not sure if that would count as a bone-in meal if it's ground. Will need some mentor help for this. I'm not sure if you can do grinds to where they won't throw off the balance, I'd say no but I'm not familiar with them. You have a little much of muscle meats on your menu, you have 7 bone-in and 5 muscle meals, it's generally 3-4 muscle meals. But you have to remember that Heart is a muscle meal and counts as one. You have a red meat meal (beef steak) which is good. Mine aren't huge fans of beef but they love Lamb, so funny how they all have different likes and dislikes, just as we do. Oh! I didn't realize that heart counted as muscle. So, I have 5 muscle meals. Hmmm... Maybe I can replace one with bone-in. That would put me at four, including hearts. I will take a peek at other people's switching threads and see what their menus look like. Thanks for your input, @julesalot! I guess giving them ground meat defeats the purpose of switching to Frankenprey.... Duh me. One of the reasons why I wanted them on Frankenprey was so that they have clean teeth. I'm so obsessed with my ferrets' eating schedule, I think I'm losing it. lol
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 21:15:18 GMT -5
Wed, 12/17
Leela AM: kibble? PM: 2.1 oz FDR
Flexie AM: kibble? PM: 0.6 oz FDR
Mitch AM: 1.5 oz. MPC duck PM: 1.3 oz. MPC duck
Mango AM: 1.2 oz. chicken wing PM: 1.5 oz. beef steak, 0.7 oz. FDR from his sister's bowl
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 22:51:40 GMT -5
Haha yes, I used to tend to forget it was a muscle, but my mentors have finally beat it into my head and I've got the ratios memorized, it just takes lots of reading, like studying for an exam sorta Has Leela and Flexie tried raw? Sorry that I haven't paid much attention to each of your babies, been a busy month. Mango seems to be doing well so that's good, how is Mitch feeling?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 21:29:34 GMT -5
Yes, it takes so much studying and memorizing! I know that what you feed your pets doesn't change how much you love them, but man, raw-feeding takes so much time and effort. You really have to be dedicated to have this down. Since I started this switch, I have a whole new respect for those who feed raw! Leela has been eating FDR + soupie mix, and I have been increasing the raw-to-FDR ratio. Right now she accepts her mix of about up to 3:1 raw. I still have to add some FDR to give it the smell she likes, I guess. I tried to give her soupie without the FDR, but she won't eat it... I'll continue to increase the raw ratio gradually. She does eat chicken chunks in her mix. She started using her back teeth too. Flexie is very new to FDR! She finally started eating it in the last few days. She won't eat much, and she won't eat it unless I hand-feed her. Today was actually their first day without free access to kibble. I left two ounces of FDR for them to eat during the day, but they didn't touch it. Maybe it was too early to do that. I might have to leave kibble for the girls until I know they will eat FDR on their own. Mitch has not had any kibble for 7 weeks now! But he is still unpredictable about meat chunks. If he finds a stashed piece of dried meat (muscle and bone-in), he will eat it, but he won't eat it when I want him to. So it's hard to put him on the same eating schedule as Mango. I'm still feeding him ground raw and soupie twice a day. His soup has bigger chunks of sliver in it. He can eat thumb nail size chunks just fine. Maybe I should try the gravy method that Desiree was using. Mango... He's a good eater. He's my very first proud Frankenprey convert! He eats pretty much anything I give him. The only things he didn't care for were ground lamb (with tripe and other organs in it) and beef liver. But that's ok. He is eating everything else like a pro!
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