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Post by bitbyter on Jul 7, 2015 23:35:54 GMT -5
Whatever you want to start with (protein wise). Chicken is good because it is relatively cheap.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 14:27:05 GMT -5
Big news! We FINALLY are off the FDR and on 100% raw. The first meal was kind of rough. Neither were very impressed even though there was such a miniscule amount of FDR in their food for the past week or more. But now they are both eating it pretty comfortably. Bea is as small as she's ever been and Smokey is as big as he's ever been. I'm not sure what that's about. Both are acting normal. Maybe I'll make an effort to get Bea to eat first before Smokey eats it all. Maybe he's eating it all before she can. Not sure.
I am going to go to the store in a while and pick up some chicken thighs/wings. Hopefully I can find boneless because when I was cutting the meat off the bone of thighs and wings before, it was such a time consuming pain in the butt!
I'll put some slivers in their overnight meal tonight and see how they do.
Intake 7/7 AM - 2.6 oz (95%+ raw) 7/7 PM - 2.0 oz (95%+ raw) 7/7 - overnight 0.0 oz 7/8 AM - 3.2 oz (95%+ raw) 7/8 PM - 3.0 oz (95%+ raw) 7/8 - overnight 0.0 oz 7/9 AM - 2.4 oz (95%+ raw) 7/9 PM - 2.5 oz (95%+ raw) 7/9 - overnight 0.0 oz 7/10 AM - 2.3 oz (95%+ raw) 7/10 PM - 3.0 oz (95%+ raw) 7/10 - overnight 1.6 oz (95%+ raw) 7/11 AM - .9 oz (100% raw) 7/11 PM - 2.8 oz (100% raw) 7/11 - overnight 0.0 oz
Weights
Beatrix 1/18 1 lb 15.9 oz 1/25 2 lb 0 oz 2/1 2 lb 1.8 oz 2/8 2 lb 0.4 oz 2/18 2 lb 0.4 oz 3/1 2 lb 1.06 oz 3/8 2 lb 2.3 oz 3/15 2 lb 1.5 oz 3/22 2 lb 3.1 oz 3/28 2 lb 1.2 oz 4/5 2 lb .6 oz 4/12 2 lb 2.3 oz 4/19 2 lb 2.5 oz 4/26 2 lb 2.8 oz 5/3 2 lb 6.1 oz 5/10 2 lb 8.8 oz 5/17 2 lb 10.5 oz 5/23 2 lb 13.7 oz 6/8 2 lb 8.7 oz 6/14 2 lb 7.1 oz 6/21 2 lb 8.8 oz 6/27 2 lb 5.7 oz 7/5 2 lb 5.6 oz 7/12 1 lb 13.0 oz
Smokey 1/18 2 lb 9.1 oz 1/25 2 lb 9.5 oz 2/1 2 lb 8.8 oz 2/8 2 lb 8.5 oz 2/18 2 lb 7.4 oz 3/1 2 lb 6 oz 3/8 2 lb 5.8 oz 3/15 2 lb 5 oz 3/22 2 lb 5.1 oz 3/28 2 lb 3.4 oz 4/5 2 lb 3.2 oz 4/12 2 lb 5.1 oz 4/19 2 lb 4.6 oz 4/26 2 lb 11.3 oz 5/3 2 lb 12 oz 5/10 3 lb 2.1 oz 5/17 3 lb 4.3 oz 5/23 3 lb 5 oz 6/8 3 lb 2.5 oz 6/14 3 lb 3.8 oz 6/21 3 lb 8 oz 6/27 3 lb 9 oz 7/5 3 lb 8.2 oz 7/12 3 lb 13.0 oz
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2015 10:19:25 GMT -5
Intake 7/12 AM - 1.7 oz (no chicken) 7/12 PM - .7 oz (no chicken) 7/12 - overnight 1.3 oz (no chicken) 7/13 AM - 1.5 oz (no chicken) 7/13 PM - 2.7 oz (.1 oz chicken) 7/13 - overnight 0.0 oz 7/14 AM - 1.5 oz (.2 oz chicken) 7/14 PM - 2 oz (.3 oz chicken) 7/14 - overnight 0.0 oz
My plan is to keep adding .1 oz of slivered chicken breast to their soups every meal. The amounts above include chicken, so progressively with each meal, the ratio is going to get to be more and more chicken and less and less soup. How long will it be ok to do that? I don't want their ratio of muscle meat to organ meat to get thrown off too much.
At what point should I start making the slivers bigger?
Am I right in thinking that our plan is to get them to eat more and more slivers and then make the slivers just a little bigger, and get them to eat more and more of the little bit bigger slivers, and then make even bigger pieces and get them to eat more and more of the even bigger pieces? And then we keep going with that process until we phase soups out all together?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 9:20:39 GMT -5
7/15 AM - 2.0 oz (.4 oz chicken) 7/15 PM - .3 oz (.5 oz chicken)* 7/15- overnight 1.3 oz (.5 chicken)* 7/16 AM - 2.0 oz (.6 oz chicken) 7/16 PM - 2.2 oz (.7 oz chicken) 7/16 - overnight 1.5 oz (.8 oz chicken)
I'm getting close to having the amount of chicken slivers be about half as much as the amount of soup. Is that ok? I did get kind of lazy last night with cutting up the slivers. The chicken was more thawed than I like it to be when I slicing it that thin which makes it harder to make them as tiny as I'd like them, but both babies ate all their meal so they didn't seem to mind. Maybe I should up the size and start back at .1 oz and increase like I've been doing. What do you think?
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Post by bitbyter on Jul 17, 2015 9:32:54 GMT -5
ok a few things.
1. Try to avoid chicken breast as it is pretty low in fat. Thighs, leg meat or chicken gizzards are better. Gizzards are really good because they are tough and strengthen their jaw muscles.
2. The current goal is to get them fully onto solids first before increasing the sizes.
3. Buy some liver, kidney and heart as well and sliver that into the mix also. Basically you are still making the soup recipe but only cutting it into slivers instead of blending it.
4. Buy a good pair of kitchen shears to cut boneless meats (makes it much easier).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 17:46:39 GMT -5
We've only been doing chicken thighs so I should be good there. I've noticed Bea seems to have more energy the last few days? Could it be because of the fat in the thighs? Maybe it's a higher fat content than in the goat meat?
Thanks for the clarification on the fact that we are still going to follow the soup recipe, it just won't be blended. That makes sense. So that means we will try to follow the ratio of the soup recipe as closely as possible as we are putting slivers and chunks into the soup? I guess that's my concern at this point, I don't want to offer too much muscle meat or organ meat and throw anything off for them. Is that a concern at this stage of the transition? If some days i add muscle meat (like chicken thighs) and other days I add organ meat (like heart or liver), the ratio won't be too thrown off, right?
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Post by bitbyter on Jul 19, 2015 18:36:56 GMT -5
correct. As long as the ratios are the same you should be good.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 8:51:23 GMT -5
Ok, here's what I'm going to do. And maybe this would be the obvious next step but it just occurred to me. I'll cut up all ingredients that go into the soup into slivers and put it into batches following the recipe I use for soups. I'll do some soup and some slivers each meal, increasing the amount of slivers and decreasing the amount of soups. I might not get to that until the weekend though because that sounds pretty involved and my time at night is so limited. I could try to do a little each night though. I'm planning on cutting up some goat kidney tonight anyway. I'm busy all night after work tomorrow night but maybe my goal for Wednesday night will be to cut up some pig hearts too. How fragile is their system with ratios getting out of whack? I'm afraid I've been giving them too much chicken thigh slivers mixed in with their soups for the last week or so. Is that long enough to cause any problems? And if it's not perfect over the next few days while I get stocked up on slivered meals, is that going to be ok? I have a lot of beef liver right now but not much for other organs. I think I'll place a Hare Today order today to get a good mix of other organs in the freezer. If you have any suggestions for organs I should get, let me know! But I'm probably going to place the order pretty soon so I might just end up doing my own thing and hoping they like it
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 9:05:31 GMT -5
Intake7/17 AM - 2.2 oz 7/17 PM - 2.6 oz 7/17- overnight 2.1 oz 7/18 AM - 2.2 oz 7/18 PM - 4.0 oz* 7/18 - overnight 2.1 oz 7/19 AM - 1.7 oz 7/19 PM - 1.5 oz 7/19- overnight 0.0 oz 7/20 AM - .8 oz 7/20 PM - 0.0 oz 7/20 - overnight 3.3 oz* * - indicates egg meals As soon as I get enough meat slivered to mix into soups in a balanced way, I will do that. Until then, I'll add in what I've got the best I can. My plans changed for tonight so I'll have time to sliver a bunch of liver and chicken thighs. Tomorrow night, I'll sliver heart and more chicken thighs. Thursday night, I'm busy all night after work so I won't get much done that night but I will put in some time this weekend to make a big batch. It's time consuming to cut everything up so tiny and it's hard to get ahead of it without setting aside at least a couple hours! Starting next week, I'll be more systematic with increasing my ratio of slivers to soup little by little. I didn't have much chicken thigh slivers this morning so I put in what I had and they ate it all up rather than eating around it (which they've been doing as I've gradually increased the amount of slivers). So I think if I add more and more slivers in a more gradual way, I might have more success. This is quite the process!! Thanks for always having patience with us.
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Post by bitbyter on Jul 21, 2015 9:54:59 GMT -5
It takes a long time for deficiencies to show up. They should be fine as long as you get back on track.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 9:32:34 GMT -5
Intake
7/21 AM - 2.5 oz 7/21 PM - 0.0 oz 7/21- overnight 3.0 oz 7/22 AM - 2.2 oz 7/22 PM - 0.0 oz 7/22 - overnight 2.5 oz* 7/23 AM - 2.7 oz 7/23 PM - 1.1 oz 7/23- overnight 1.0 oz 7/24 AM - 1.0 oz 7/24 PM - 1.8 oz 7/24 - overnight 2.4 oz 7/25 AM - 4.3 oz* 7/25 PM - 1.1 oz 7/25- overnight 1.1 oz 7/26 AM - 2.0 oz 7/26 PM - 0.0 oz 7/26 - overnight 3.5 oz (10% slivers)
* indicates egg meal
I got a bunch of slivers chopped and portioned according to the recipe in the files.
8 oz chicken thigh 2 oz goat kidney 1 oz duck heart 1/4 tsp eggshell
That should be right, right?
My plan is to start by adding 10% slivers to 90% soup. I'll increase by 5% each meal until I see chunks left over. At that point, I'll back down to the previous portion of slivers and stay there for a few days, like I did when I was weaning them off FDR. I'll continue increasing by 5% every 3 days as long as they are eating the slivers as well. Does that sound ok?
I have a question about mixing in FDR occasionally to keep them liking that. I still have several bags that I don't want to go to waste and I'd also like it if they could stay acclimated to that food for times when it's just easier to give them FDR for whatever reason. Maybe if we go out of town and it's easier for someone else to handle giving them FDR. So my question is if you think it would be ok to give them FDR maybe once a week, maybe mixed in with their Saturday egg meal or something. What are your thoughts about that?
Weights
Beatrix 1/18 1 lb 15.9 oz 1/25 2 lb 0 oz 2/1 2 lb 1.8 oz 2/8 2 lb 0.4 oz 2/18 2 lb 0.4 oz 3/1 2 lb 1.06 oz 3/8 2 lb 2.3 oz 3/15 2 lb 1.5 oz 3/22 2 lb 3.1 oz 3/28 2 lb 1.2 oz 4/5 2 lb .6 oz 4/12 2 lb 2.3 oz 4/19 2 lb 2.5 oz 4/26 2 lb 2.8 oz 5/3 2 lb 6.1 oz 5/10 2 lb 8.8 oz 5/17 2 lb 10.5 oz 5/23 2 lb 13.7 oz 6/8 2 lb 8.7 oz 6/14 2 lb 7.1 oz 6/21 2 lb 8.8 oz 6/27 2 lb 5.7 oz 7/5 2 lb 5.6 oz 7/12 1 lb 13.0 oz 7/19 2 lb 2.5 oz 7/26 2 lb 1.6 oz
Smokey 1/18 2 lb 9.1 oz 1/25 2 lb 9.5 oz 2/1 2 lb 8.8 oz 2/8 2 lb 8.5 oz 2/18 2 lb 7.4 oz 3/1 2 lb 6 oz 3/8 2 lb 5.8 oz 3/15 2 lb 5 oz 3/22 2 lb 5.1 oz 3/28 2 lb 3.4 oz 4/5 2 lb 3.2 oz 4/12 2 lb 5.1 oz 4/19 2 lb 4.6 oz 4/26 2 lb 11.3 oz 5/3 2 lb 12 oz 5/10 3 lb 2.1 oz 5/17 3 lb 4.3 oz 5/23 3 lb 5 oz 6/8 3 lb 2.5 oz 6/14 3 lb 3.8 oz 6/21 3 lb 8 oz 6/27 3 lb 9 oz 7/5 3 lb 8.2 oz 7/12 3 lb 13.0 oz 7/19 3 lb 5.4 oz 7/26 3 lb 3.3 oz
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Post by bitbyter on Jul 28, 2015 8:00:08 GMT -5
Just make one meal a week an FDR meal. That should do it. Don't be surprised though that when they fully switch they might not want to eat soups anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 9:03:14 GMT -5
7/27 AM - 2.5 oz (15% slivers) 7/27 PM - 0.0 oz 7/27 - overnight 4.2 oz (20% slivers)* 7/28 AM - 2.2 oz (20% slivers) 7/28 PM - 0.0 oz 7/28 - overnight 4.0 oz (25% slivers) 7/29 AM - 1.5 oz (30% slivers) 7/29 PM - 0.0 oz 7/29 - overnight 4.3 oz (40% slivers)* * indicates egg meal I've been skipping their PM meal and just offering their overnight meal a little earlier but in bigger portions. Otherwise, it just seemed like "extra work" for me to make them a meal at about 5:30 and again at about 7:30, 8:00. Now, I've just been giving them a bit more at about 6:30 which tides them over just fine until their AM meal at about 5:00 AM. As long as Smokey is stable (with his BG), I feel like that's ok to do. They're always sound asleep when I get home from work so I just let them sleep until dinner time. I'm still playing with the amounts they get in a 24 hour period versus their weight gain/loss/maintenance. I've been shooting for about 6 oz per day and hoping their weight stabilizes. I think they've both lost enough and are at good weights. Bea, however seems slimmer when I look at her. Will raw change a ferrets body composition? Perhaps she's more muscular and slim now than she was? She used to be very pear-shaped and now she looks more banana-shaped, for lack of a better analogy
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 14:02:25 GMT -5
7/30 AM - 2.0 oz (45% slivers) 7/30 PM - 0.0 oz 7/30 - overnight 2.7 oz (50% slivers) 7/31 AM - 2.0 oz (45% slivers) 7/31 PM - 2.0 oz 7/31 (45% slivers)- overnight 2.0 oz (45% slivers) 8/1 AM - 2.0 oz (FDR) 8/1 PM - 0.0 oz 8/1 - overnight 4.9 oz (45% slivers)* 8/2 AM - 3.5 oz (45% slivers) 8/2 PM - 0.0 oz 8/2 - overnight 2.5 oz (45% slivers)
* indicates egg meal
We got a little stuck at 50% slivers so I stayed at 45% for a few days. I moved to 50% this morning and they did well with that. I'm not sure how they will do with 55% but all I can do is try! If they leave a lot of slivers at 55%, I'll stay at 50% again for a few days. We are getting there!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 14:04:38 GMT -5
Oops, I forgot to add our weights again. Here are our updated weights:
Weights
Beatrix 1/18 1 lb 15.9 oz 1/25 2 lb 0 oz 2/1 2 lb 1.8 oz 2/8 2 lb 0.4 oz 2/18 2 lb 0.4 oz 3/1 2 lb 1.06 oz 3/8 2 lb 2.3 oz 3/15 2 lb 1.5 oz 3/22 2 lb 3.1 oz 3/28 2 lb 1.2 oz 4/5 2 lb .6 oz 4/12 2 lb 2.3 oz 4/19 2 lb 2.5 oz 4/26 2 lb 2.8 oz 5/3 2 lb 6.1 oz 5/10 2 lb 8.8 oz 5/17 2 lb 10.5 oz 5/23 2 lb 13.7 oz 6/8 2 lb 8.7 oz 6/14 2 lb 7.1 oz 6/21 2 lb 8.8 oz 6/27 2 lb 5.7 oz 7/5 2 lb 5.6 oz 7/12 1 lb 13.0 oz 7/19 2 lb 2.5 oz 7/26 2 lb 1.6 oz 8/1 2 lb 2 oz
Smokey 1/18 2 lb 9.1 oz 1/25 2 lb 9.5 oz 2/1 2 lb 8.8 oz 2/8 2 lb 8.5 oz 2/18 2 lb 7.4 oz 3/1 2 lb 6 oz 3/8 2 lb 5.8 oz 3/15 2 lb 5 oz 3/22 2 lb 5.1 oz 3/28 2 lb 3.4 oz 4/5 2 lb 3.2 oz 4/12 2 lb 5.1 oz 4/19 2 lb 4.6 oz 4/26 2 lb 11.3 oz 5/3 2 lb 12 oz 5/10 3 lb 2.1 oz 5/17 3 lb 4.3 oz 5/23 3 lb 5 oz 6/8 3 lb 2.5 oz 6/14 3 lb 3.8 oz 6/21 3 lb 8 oz 6/27 3 lb 9 oz 7/5 3 lb 8.2 oz 7/12 3 lb 13.0 oz 7/19 3 lb 5.4 oz 7/26 3 lb 3.3 oz 8/1 3 lb 3 oz
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