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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2014 17:54:08 GMT -5
I made sure all the stuffed animals are just fabric, I cut the tags off too just in case. The peanuts are starch based, they got one in their water bowl and it started dissolving. The ferrets are only allowed in my room and I have my chargers plugged in, can I get hard plastic cord covers, if they exist, or do I need to unplug everything and put all the cords up when I let them out? (That's 7-10 cords LOL) I'm using eggshell powder and do 3/4 tsp every 8 oz of meat. Caillou's gums actually look a whole lot better. And he hasn't chewed on anything in 2 days I think, mostly was going for my carpet but he hasn't tried to chew on anything since Thursday. The Baytril is completely disgustingly horrific, he spit it on my face the first time he got it and I tasted like a micro drop of it and gagged. Yuck! He has to take it for 7 more days, but according to my Vet should start feeling better any day now and I think he is starting to feel better. He's been a little less playful, but I assume on strong antibiotics and having a throbbing mouth for 1 month can make you tired. He'll play with Juliet, but not me he used to love playing with momma, and now he shuns me, I hope he doesn't hate me or something. I feed them separately, I have a double ferret nation and the top level is currently their feeding den. I give Caillou his medicine and put him in the top cage and shut the door and let him eat, then give Juliet her medicine and put her on the bottom level and let her eat, or if I have enough time I wait for Cai to finish and put Jules in the top. Either way, I don't feed them together because Caillou the fatso always eats Juliet's food when he's done and he eats like 4x faster than her. Jules does tiny little licks and takes her sweet time doing so, and Caillou has his entire face in the bowl. Today is the ferrets 8 week on raw diet mark. Taking weights and pictures of their bodies when I get home tonight, and I'm also taking Juliet's BG because she's been on her prednisone for 10 days and I want to see if it's gone up and stabilized. I'm also adding Marcie in to weekly weigh ins and pictures, we'll be treating her as if she's my own if that's alright (giggle). Going to push her as hard as she will let me with the raw and hopefully she will get caught up soon. I need to get her off that nasty kibble! Oh and I called the Asian market around me and they have Pork heart and liver, (2.69 per lb for heart, hope it's a good price LOL) and so I'm hoping I can get it soon. Probably not today, but sometime next week.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2014 18:44:24 GMT -5
That's a good price for pork heart. Mine love pork heart and I bet yours will also.
They do make cord covers and you can get them at Office Depot or Staples. I've never needed to cover cords. No one has ever seemed interested in them. I would put all the cords up and leave one cord down (unplugged) and just watch Marcie and see if she expresses any interest, that should tell you, if you need covers.
Caillou just may be telling you that he doesn't approve of you giving him medicine. Give him a little extra attention afterwards, spend five or ten minutes of just play and he will forgive you.
Maybe Caillou could eat a little more. If he finishes his bowl and is willing to eat Jules, try putting a little more in his bowl. Separate feeding is a smart idea though.
You're doing great and I love having Katt onboard, don't you? We're both going to learn so much! :wave2:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2014 18:54:17 GMT -5
I'll have to get some as soon as I can, my mom thought $2.69 was crazy expensive and I had to explain how little they eat (well, you know, ounces wise) and how long it would last. And reminded her the lamb was $11 per lb I'll spend some one-on-one time with Caillou, maybe give him some salmon oil.. hehe.. I wish he knew I was only doing it to make him feel better. I'll offer Caillou 3 ounces tonight and see if he eats it. They may be eating more because I've been adding more water, the more water there is the less meat there is to fill them up (maybe?). I need to start bargain buying or couponing or something, they're eating me out of my wallet, which I'm very happy about but financially stressed about.. lol. I do very much enjoy having Katt here, I've learned a lot from you katt and you're a terrific mentor, not to mention will be an amazing doctor I'm late getting home to feed them, I fed them at 7am this morning because I had to leave at 7:30am, and I'm still at the hospital now and it takes 45 minutes to get home. Well, I guess they'll just be extra hungry then. Maybe that's good so Marcie will be more willing to eat. Will post after I attempt to feed her the soup and quail wing, fingers crossed!
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Post by katt on Oct 25, 2014 19:36:14 GMT -5
Aww thanks guys! (shy) (shy) I'm just so glad that Steph agreed to join the switch. I miss having our thread up! lol I made sure all the stuffed animals are just fabric, I cut the tags off too just in case. The peanuts are starch based, they got one in their water bowl and it started dissolving. The ferrets are only allowed in my room and I have my chargers plugged in, can I get hard plastic cord covers, if they exist, or do I need to unplug everything and put all the cords up when I let them out? (That's 7-10 cords LOL) www.amazon.com/Omnimount-Mini-Cable-Management-Covers/dp/B000P5WUP8/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1414282601&sr=8-16&keywords=cable+coverWe have some cords that just can't be unplugged. What we do is tuck as much of the cord up and out of reach as possible, and then always keep an eye and ear out for chewing. You could try a bitter spray on the cords but honestly they usually just ignore the spray and it ends up in YOUR mouth if you touch the cords...how they can ignore that awful stuff is beyond me! :puke: I'm using eggshell powder and do 3/4 tsp every 8 oz of meat. Hmm that's actually More than recommended. I definitely wouldn't up it. Any chance you can get a poop pic? Oftentimes people who are used to kibble poops think that raw poops are soft because they are more...moist. LOL Also, soup poops do tend to be softer by nature just because of the nature of the meat-puree and high water intake. Caillou's gums actually look a whole lot better. And he hasn't chewed on anything in 2 days I think, mostly was going for my carpet but he hasn't tried to chew on anything since Thursday. The Baytril is completely disgustingly horrific, he spit it on my face the first time he got it and I tasted like a micro drop of it and gagged. Yuck! He has to take it for 7 more days, but according to my Vet should start feeling better any day now and I think he is starting to feel better. He's been a little less playful, but I assume on strong antibiotics and having a throbbing mouth for 1 month can make you tired. He'll play with Juliet, but not me he used to love playing with momma, and now he shuns me, I hope he doesn't hate me or something.
Good! Are you brushing his teeth? Regardless of whether he starts feeling better, make sure you complete the entire course of meds or you can just end up with a resistant strain. He may just be upset with you since you've been forcing yucky meds down his gullet for the past few weeks. Don't worry - in time all will be forgive. I've been there before. On that note - how are you giving the meds? Perhaps a different approach may make it less stressful. Not sure if this is helpful, but if he is spitting out the meds (he really needs to swallow them lol) this may help. It won't make him any happier about taking the meds, but it's important to get them down. I feed them separately, I have a double ferret nation and the top level is currently their feeding den. I give Caillou his medicine and put him in the top cage and shut the door and let him eat, then give Juliet her medicine and put her on the bottom level and let her eat, or if I have enough time I wait for Cai to finish and put Jules in the top. Either way, I don't feed them together because Caillou the fatso always eats Juliet's food when he's done and he eats like 4x faster than her. Jules does tiny little licks and takes her sweet time doing so, and Caillou has his entire face in the bowl. LOL Naughty boy! On that note however, you should really let them eat as much as they want. If he is guzzling it down and wants more - he needs more. Ferrets on a raw diet are generally very good at self regulating. Especially with winter coming on, and being new to the raw diet, they really need to be allowed to eat as much as they want. They should also have access to food 24/7 or close to. A good rule of thumb is to always feed enough so that by the next meal, there is only a bite or two of the previous meal left. That way you know they got their fill (bc a little was leftover) but there is minimal waste. It's really important that they get enough food, and that they have access to snack whenever they are hungry. Particularly with Juliet being borderline insu - if her BG drops and she doesn't have food available it could send her into a crash. Raw stays good for a lot longer than you might anticipate. Also remember that they are designed to handle most "ickies" in raw meat. In the wild they get their prey (or carrion that has been dead who knows how long), drag it through the great wilderness collecting dirt along the way, drag it into their dens, urinate and defecate on it to keep other animals from eating their goods, and then eat on it over the course of minutes to weeks. What would make a human sick a ferret can handle with ease. Also, raw tends to dry out before it spoils. To help you with general timelines though meat is generally good for.... Soup: 6-8 hours Grinds: 8-12 hours Chunks: 12-24 hours depending on size of chunk, and whether it has bone or not Whole Prey: 24-48 hours Again, they REALLY need to be allowed to eat as much as they want and to have 24/7 access to food. For now, leave a bowl of pork soup in the cage. You can still feed them their meals as you have been, but keep a small bowl of pork soup/slivers in the cage between meals. Now that I know this, I really think that this may be why Caillou is losing weight. If he is eating 2oz of soup and wants to eat Juliet's soup too, that means he isn't getting enough food. He's a big meaty man-fert - he needs more food to support his man-fert body. Today is the ferrets 8 week on raw diet mark. Taking weights and pictures of their bodies when I get home tonight, and I'm also taking Juliet's BG because she's been on her prednisone for 10 days and I want to see if it's gone up and stabilized. I'm also adding Marcie in to weekly weigh ins and pictures, we'll be treating her as if she's my own if that's alright (giggle). Going to push her as hard as she will let me with the raw and hopefully she will get caught up soon. I need to get her off that nasty kibble!
Oh and I called the Asian market around me and they have Pork heart and liver, (2.69 per lb for heart, hope it's a good price LOL) and so I'm hoping I can get it soon. Probably not today, but sometime next week. Yay! And yes, that is a decent price for pork heart. Sorry, gotta run for now but I'll read the other posts later.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2014 19:49:30 GMT -5
I was doing 1/2 tsp but their poops were quite runny so we increased it to 3/4 tsp several weeks ago. I did forget to put the powder in their batch the first time I made the pork soup, but it only lasted a little over a day anyways.
I forgot about the tooth brushing... I really need to write things down :face: lol. He doesn't spit it out now, he did the first time. I scruff him and give it to him ad he swallows it but he shakes his head a little after, that's why I immediately give him his soup after he gets his meds. I'll leave some in the cage, I haven't seen Juliet get up and go to the bowl to eat even when there are leftovers, but Caillou does it a lot. I think Juliet doesn't like it unless it's warm, Caillou doesn't really care, obviously. I didn't leave enough soup out to thaw so they'll be eating pretty late, still haven't left the hospital. I hope Marcie is alright, she has been without kibble since 4:30pm because I thought I'd be home sooner. They needed to eat 2 hours ago.. oops. Will add in Marcie to their log and hopefully she'll be off kibble soon. Pictures, weights, and updates coming later tonight if I don't go home and completely pass out. lol.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2014 23:55:59 GMT -5
Okay, first is first, Marcie. After I fed the ferts I blended up some thin (milky) pork soup, I sat on the floor and held Marcie in my lap and put a spoonful up to her face and she immediately started eating, she put up a little bit of a fight about it, but she ate 1 ounce of it (dance) I was very proud, considering mine had to have like half a bottle of ferretone to eat that much on their first try.. LOL. She chewed it though, like it was completely chunk-free and she was chewing..? Weirdo. But nonetheless I'm proud of her. Not so proud at the moment seeing as how she's gotten into trouble twice in 10 minutes and is now forbidden into the sin-bin for a time-out and has decided to empty the litter box. Smh. Rewind a few minutes, I took Juliet's BG and it was 69. Mine hasn't been calibrated with my Vets yet, but the first reading on my own meter was 61 and that was a few days or a week BEFORE staring prednisone, and this reading is 10 days after, so 8 points higher which I'm guessing is good? If so, yay! Then I fed them, Caillou insisted on me blending his soup as it was chunky instead of mushy. So after that, he ate about 2.5 ounces but I had to spoon feed him about 0.5 of an ounce or else he wouldn't have eaten it. Juliet wasn't very hungry and she only ate maybe 1.0 ounce, her leftovers (1 ounce) I left in the cage for them. Oh and pictures, I took them of all 3 of them. Caillou and Juliet's are their 8 week mark since being off kibble and on raw, and Marcie's were mostly for funzies but I suppose can be starting pictures. Caillou- his weight is 40.2 ounces. He has lost 2 more ounces which makes a total of an 11 ounce loss in 5 weeks. He is 2.5 pounds. Juliet- her weight is 25.4 ounces. She has lost 0.12 ounces since last week so is holding fairly well. She is 1.5 pounds. Marcie- her weight is 32.0 ounces which makes her exactly 2 pounds. And the daily log- What they ate each meal: Caillou and Juliet ate pork soup Marcie ate kibble in the morning at then it was taken out at around 5:00pm and she was fed raw soup at around 11:00pm Roughly how much they ate each meal: Caillou ate 2 ounces AM Caillou ate 2.5 ounces PM Juliet ate 2 ounces AM Juliet ate 1 ounce PM Marcie ate 1 ounce PM Any additional supplements: Caillou got .13 ml of Baytril 100 Juliet got .1 ml of pediapred Marcie got a little ferretone for the weigh-in What their poops are like: Caillou’s are dark brown and slightly more formed Juliet’s a more light brown and tiny Marcie’s are the normal kibble poops, large, light brown, even in color and consistency. What their energy levels are like: Caillou was a little perked up today Juliet was feeling good too Marcie was spaz out insane like usual
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 8:49:13 GMT -5
Sorry Katt I forgot about the poop pic. I'll take one when I get home today. After I fed them this morning I scraped the bowls and got about 1 spoonful maybe a little more and offered it.to Marcie, no hesitation she dug right in and started licking the bowl and wanting more. Would've given her her own bowl but I only had two 2 oz bags left for Cai and Jules, gotta make more tonight. katt How much does she need to be eating before I can take the kibble away? 2 ounces a day? I feel she will be able to move along pretty fast, she isn't picky. Unfortunately I used up all my quail wings, so I'll have to get more this week when I get paid and go to the Asian Market for the organs. Anything else I need to look for other than organs and quail?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 15:29:05 GMT -5
Emily and I did talk about increasing the eggshell powder a little, since everyone's poops were so soft. So, I take responsibility for that.
Have you been able to find cornish game hens yet? They're such a good buy and a nice starter bone.
Let's wait and see what Katt says about the kibble. With Mika and Keller, once they were eating soup, I didn't give them anything else. I always leave food out overnight and during the day, and if the bowls were empty, they got refilled. Marcie is still sleeping alone, right? I would take out the kibble at night and put some soupie and a wing in with her. However, I'd like to see what Katt says.
There for awhile. Caillou was hardly eating. It seems like he is making up for lost time. He must be feeling better. I'd increase the amount that you give him. Like Katt says, if they leave some on their plate or try to stash, they are full. If the bowl is empty, up the amount.
To remember things, I use a whiteboard on my fridge. You could always tape notes to your mirror or the back of your door. Someplace that you look at alot.
Little Marcie is quite the character. She sounds like a bundle of personality.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 15:46:15 GMT -5
Was going to get some CGH yesterday but the store that had them (Kroger) was closed I'm hoping to get everything I need on Thursday or latest on Friday, gotta go the day we get paid or else when the bills get paid we're broke (LOL). Marcie is in her own single FN and is alone. She wants to meet Caillou so bad her and him both can't stand to wait, he spends a good 20 mins trying to get into her cage, he sees her through the bars and pulls at her bedding to get in and she does the same, except she climbs the double FN and gives me mini heart attacks. I'm gonna ask Belinda if I can introduce them on Thursday, that will be 1 week. Caillou's gums look completely normal now, and he hasn't chewed in about 3 days. I compared his gums to Jules, his were actually a little bit pale, slightly less "pinkish" than Juliet's. He doesn't feel too great, I think it's all the medicine. He's playing, not as hard as usual, I got him to jump around some by throwing a blanket up and letting him war dance under it as it goes down. This morning he wouldn't finish his food on his own, it was 2 ounces, I had to spoon feed him about 0.5-1.0 ounce. Juliet needed some spoon feeding too. I have a whiteboard/corkboard, I can use that. I'm currently waiting for them to poop, I cleaned the litter box out then realized I needed to take pictures, but nobody is willing to go, except Marcie, she had a greenish poop about an hour ago... maybe from stress, they were like that the entire first day she was here, then got better and were brown and formed, completely even in color and consistency, like normal kibble poops are.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 16:04:45 GMT -5
My narriation to Caillou's thoughts during these pictures- LET ME IN!!!!!!!!!!! I love you and want to see you... DOOK DOOK DOOK Shortly after these pictures they both opened their mouths and were trying to grab each other through the bars and then Caillou jumped and got onto the top of the cage, and then Marcie continued to attempt to dig her way out. It's so cute, because right after he sees Marcie he starts dooking like crazy.
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Post by katt on Oct 26, 2014 18:15:48 GMT -5
lol Too cute - I hope they all get along once you introduce them. Then your mom will just HAVE To agree to keeping Marcie. As for the kibble, if she eats the soup willingly, ditch the kibble! The ONLY thing that might make me say keep it around would be if you are not going to keep her, and switch her onto raw she may not want to go back to eating kibble. Sometimes they are addicts and go back to it immediately, but often after they have been on raw a while they "forget" that kibble is food. If she is going to be adopted out to a kibble feeder, you would potentially need to switch her back (or hope that her being imprinted on raw would convince them to feed raw ). Honestly though, I'd just toss the kibble.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 18:23:11 GMT -5
Hehe, yes, she will have to agree... I mean I've already named her, switched her food, taken like 2000 pictures of her, she's pretty much mine it's just not written on paper yet She hasn't had kibble in several hours, she keeps trying to find it, I'm making a new batch tonight, probably will be at least another hour or two before I can go get some more pork, so I'll ditch the kibble and do raw and see how it goes, fingers crossed! And they STILL haven't pooped! Arg!! Marcie has already gone 3 times too. It's green and kinda seedy.. should I be concerned?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2014 18:36:32 GMT -5
Oh and a few more questions (You think there are no more possible questions to ask, no, there are! LOL)
With Juliet and Caillou, I was going to add in some pork slivers tonight, should I go ahead and decrease the amount of soup (1.5 oz soup, .5 oz slivers, etc etc) or wait until they're eating the slivers really well and a bit larger, before doing that? Note they haven't had them in over a week I think.
And with Marcie, should I go ahead and offer slivers to her tonight, or should I wait until she's been on soup for a few days/week? Marc is definitely not a picky fert, she keeps trying to eat my food when I eat and she's not afraid to try new things (THANK GOD for that, cause Jules and Cai are, haha)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 0:07:21 GMT -5
Phew- what a day, if I manage to stay awake through this post that will be a miracle First, still no poop from Caillou... I'm guessing it's been like 7+ hours since his last poop, getting a little bit worried but he is otherwise acting normal, he wanted out of the cage but doesn't want to play, which he does this almost every night, he just likes to come out and look around before bedtime. He's been different the past week or so, and for the past few days doesn't really want to play a lot. I'm hoping it's just the medicine and he'll start feeling better once the course is run. On a happier note- I found CGH!!! It was at the walmart 45 mins from my house, my mother happened to be there and she picked one up for me while she was getting the pork. I got 1 CGH (1 lb) for $2.88. I'm letting it thaw in the fridge and giving it to them tomorrow night. Aaaand, Marcie is officially off her kibble, seeing as how she LOVES raw! I gave her 1.7 ounces of soup and .3 oz of slivers that were a bit bigger than nail cresent sized, not only did she happily eat the soup, she ate almost all the slivers! The bigger ones she would try to get away from me to hoard them and then spit them out, but the smaller ones she ate no problem and I think enjoyed them too. So, she's on slivers with her 2nd batch of soup, yay! Moving her up as quickly as possible, she's just a little bit bigger of slivers away from being where Cai and Jules are (makes me feel a little bit failed, I need to try harder with them I know) but nonetheless I am very happy she is off that disgusting corn, grain, and carb filled insulinoma in a bag (AKA, Iams, AKA, every kibble produced). Questions coming, again. katt and @poncesmom I know I need to post the weekly info given when you sign up for a mentor, is it okay if I do it on Saturday's (9 days instead of 7 days) instead of Thursday which is the day I got my thread here, because I already do pictures and weights on Saturday and if I can do all of that on the same day it would be easier. Let me know if it's alright And also, I want to brush Caillou's teeth with the eggshell powder/oil mix, but how often can I do it, since the oils aren't supposed to be given every day? And, is it normal for me to be able to grab Caillou where his back/belly is and be able to literally get my hand under his rib cage and feel everything? You can't see his ribs but you can really feel them, like more so than Jules and Marcie. Little bugger is worrying me. Oh and Katt, can I give Caillou the CGH, since we're doing the protein allergy trial thing, is it okay to give him some of that, or should I just give it to Jules and Marcie? Log for the day- What they ate each meal: Caillou and Juliet got pork soup in the AM Marcie got her kibble until 3pm when I took it out. In the PM they all got pork soup and pork slivers (pork sirloin chops blended with water to pudding consistency) Roughly how much they ate: Caillou and Juliet ate 2 ounces in the AM each and 1.8 ounces in the PM each Marcie ate 1.8 ounces in the PM Any additional supplements: Caillou got .13 ml of baytril 100 Juliet got .1 ml of pediapred What their poops are like: Juliet’s are small and brown and formed Caillou’s are small, dark brown and formed, maybe a tad bit runny. Marcie’s are a little greenish and seedy then will be brown and normal. What their energy level is like: Juliet is a little all over the place today, wanted to play then 5 mins later was sleeping. Caillou has been kinda lazy lately, most he did today was try to get to Marc in her cage. Marcie was a little laid back today but still a wild child. At this point I'm not sure if I'm typing in gibberish as my eyes will no longer stay open. I probably forgot something so will most likely add it in later.. lol.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 10:47:50 GMT -5
Okay, so I asked Belinda if I could introduce them Thursday and she told me I could start doing brief hellos right now several times a day. So I took them into the bathroom, somewhere they have all been but only once or twice, they sniffed each other then immediately started war dancing and dooking and playing, except Caillou kept trying to jump and grab her so I had to cut the brief hello after about 30 - 45 seconds, but that's how Caillou plays, it's how he has always played with other ferrets.
Will let them do that several times every day and Thursday/Friday maybe they can start working out who's the boss, I suspect it will be Caillou, he's over Juliet and he tried to be over Neichei (she was too sick and he was too rough) but we'll see.
I gave them pudding consistency soup this morning, usual for Cai and Jules but for the past 2 soups she's eaten Marcie's have been watery and I tried my luck with much thicker, pudding like soup, and she gobbled it down, she's still eating, if she gets a stringy piece of meat she takes it to the other side of the cage and eats it so it's taking a while but she's eating it on her own in her cage, so proud!!
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