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Post by Heather on Oct 21, 2014 21:41:28 GMT -5
Name: Lilly HF Forum Username: Dearie 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? Online, and then from this forum! 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. I'm all for FULLY switching my ferrets to Frankenprey. 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? So much more healthier and I feel like kibble is so boring! It's like eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich everyday, haha. 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Are you willing to make the commitment? All I'm doing these days is working. I have 3 days off, and the other days are from 1pm to 8pm. I'm ready for this! 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? I have two. Coco and Chanel, both around 1-2 years old, both males, no health problems so far. Not sure of their weights. I've had them for almost 4 months! 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup? I feed them slightly wet kibble, salmon oil, and these days I've been giving them soup - just chicken, an egg, mixed with their kibble. I froze the soup in ice cube trays and I just re-heat it and add a little bit of water. 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? No , I have not. 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? Me? I don't know what to say about me. If you have some questions, feel free to ask! Lol But as for my ferrets..hmm, where to begin! They are so different from each other. Coco (Sable) is a picky eater, he's very stubborn to try new food, he's skinny, he likes to chew things, he's the stasher. Chanel (Albino--I thought he was a she when I first got him) is more chubby, he will taste anything, eat new food, he just loves to eat. He loves to chase toys and dunk his head in water. I will say that Chanel has a weird problem with his jaw. He can't seem to open it as wide as a normal ferret. My vet said it was probably due to some earlier injury, or he was born that way. Chanel eats pretty good though. Like I said, he's a little heavy. 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? I can be on every day, mostly mornings and evenings! 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). Hi and welcome to the mentoring program . In a little while your mentor ( GFountain ), will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by gfountain on Oct 22, 2014 9:03:39 GMT -5
Hi @deariie! I'm Gina, your mentor. You can read my bio here if you're interested. I'm excited to start working with you to give your fuzzies a healthier diet! Please look over your application above and make sure nothing has changed since you filled it out. I'll also need current weights and 'dangling' pictures, please.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 12:22:41 GMT -5
Hi Gina! Nice to see you as my mentor! (random note: I used to live in TN too, a small town called Dresden) Here are the pics.. they were really hard to get because I didn't have another person to help and the weights: both are around 1 pound and 7-8 ounces. Weights were hard to get. Is there any easier way to do it? I use a square scale.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 12:24:03 GMT -5
I gotta go to work now! I'll check back here later on tonight (central time here, its 12:30pm right now)
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Post by gfountain on Oct 22, 2014 19:39:29 GMT -5
It is terribly hard to take pictures by yourself... you did a great job Chanel looks a little underweight by his dangling picture. See how he has a 'waistline'? He should be more tube-like rather than having an hourglass figure. We'll see if we can put a little weight on him. Coco looks good. Weights are easy to do if (and only if) your fuzzies like some kind of oil. Put a bowl on your scale and tare it (set it to zero) with the bowl on it. Put a little oil on the fuzzy tummy, plop him in the bowl, and get that weight. If your scale won't let you tare it w/ the bowl, just weigh the bowl first, then subtract the bowl's weight from the total with the ferret. OK, so let's get started with this switch. We're starting from the very beginning, right? They're not currently on the forum recipe soup, correct? So we need to start right there. You'll need to get the ingredients for soup and mix up a batch. 8 oz chicken meat (dark meat is best) 1 oz chicken heart 1 oz chicken liver 1/2 tsp powdered eggshell or human grade bonemeal (To powder eggshell, let the shells dry then put them through a coffee grinder/blender/food processor until they are powder.) Just enough water to keep the mixture from destroying your appliance Toss all of the above into a blender or food processor and blend it until it's smooth. Rub a little olive oil into an ice cube tray; this makes it easier to pop the cubes out once frozen. Put about an ounce of the soup into each section and freeze. Once frozen solid, pop them out and store them in the freezer in an airtight baggie or container.
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Post by gfountain on Oct 22, 2014 19:43:37 GMT -5
Let me know when you've got your soup made and we'll get going. In the meantime, I'm going to give you a massive information overload. This forum is a wealth of information but it can be hard to find that information sometimes, so I'm going to put the basics of ferret nutrition right here on the first page of your switching thread so you'll have it easily accessible for reference. Don't let the amount of information overwhelm you. I KNOW it's a lot, but I promise you that by the time we get those babies switched you'll know all of it by heart.
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Post by gfountain on Oct 22, 2014 19:47:32 GMT -5
Welcome to the world of raw feeding. Since you’re here, you already know that raw feeding is the healthiest and most natural way to feed your fuzzbutts. There are several types of raw diets that are commonly fed. Many ferrents use a combination of these methods to provide a balanced diet. Obviously, the MOST natural way to feed would be to let your ferrets hunt for themselves like they do in the wild, but what kind of pet owner wants to just turn their pets out into a field and tell them to ‘go find dinner’! Controlled live feeding is a great way to mimic this behavior and can be used to supplement any raw diet. While it is a personal preference and must be done with caution, IF the ferret is a good hunter, and provided the live prey is no larger than a mouse, controlled live feeding is great enrichment for a ferret. The biggest downfall to feeding live (besides owner squeamishness) is the limited prey options that are small enough to be safely fed live. Pre-killed whole prey is the next closest to ‘all natural’, and is probably the easiest way to feed a ferret. Each whole prey meal is completely balanced in and of itself, so there is no need to measure and weigh (and worry about) what they eat when feeding a whole prey diet. In addition, whole prey poops are awesome - they are complete little fur- or feather-covered packages that are easy to clean up. However, whole prey can be expensive and some of us can’t feed anything that still has a face attached. A commercial grind or mince is another type of raw food that is available. The company simply takes a carcass and grinds it all up together – meat, bones, and most organs (usually not fur or feathers). Grinds are packaged in many different ratios and you must rely on the company to accurately report the contents and percentages of organs, heart, etc. in the grinds. Many grinds include added plant material (veggies and fruits), so careful research must be done to provide a completely balanced diet. Also, there are no “dental hygiene” benefits with commercial grinds so teeth must be brushed frequently, and again, it can be very expensive. And that brings us to frankenprey, a big word that simply means feeding a balanced diet with “grocery store meats”. It is possibly the most complicated method of feeding in the beginning, because it requires thought on the part of the owner, but once the initial learning curve is mastered, it is no more difficult than any other type of raw feeding. With all of these options, it’s easy to choose a method, or a combination of methods, of feeding that works for you. And once you understand the basics of ferret nutrition and establish a routine, you’ll discover that it is very simple to feed your ferret a balanced, healthy raw diet.
One thing you must remember is that with ferrets and their food, we have to speak in generalities - feeding raw is not an exact science. Our goal in feeding raw is to replicate as closely as possible what a ferret would eat in the wild with the correct balance of meat, organs, and bones, but how can we determine EXACTLY what that balance is? Because the difference in bone mass and the size of organs even between two animals of the same size and the same species can vary tremendously, we cannot set a DEFINITE ratio for our prey model and say “This is it; this is the exact amount of meat/organ/bone my ferret must have to be healthy.” Even if every single prey specimen were identical in proportions, who is to say that every single wild ferret would eat every part in exactly the right amount, especially with larger prey that cannot be consumed by a single ferret in one meal. So we get as close as we can to ‘natural’ by using a prey model that has been used for decades, a rough average of many species of prey animals - 80% meat, 10% organ, 10% bone. This prey model was originally geared toward dogs and cats who generally do not need as much bone in their diets as ferrets, which is why we say ferrets need 10-15% bone, depending on their poops. (This will be addressed later.)
Because of the different vocabulary used when discussing the different kinds of diets, there has been some confusion regarding the correct balance of a raw diet. Whole prey is easy. Each prey animal is a completely balanced meal, so there’s no need to think about numbers. Commercial grind companies use a ratio to determine the amount of meat, organ, and bare bone in their foods. (An ideal commercial grind would be approximately in the ratio of the prey model, or 80:10:10.) Frankenprey feeders don’t just toss a bare bone to their pets, but rather give them bone with meat attached, what we call edible bone-in meat. This terminology is where the confusion lies. Because the bone is served with meat, the percentage of bone-in meat is about 50-60% of the total diet (as opposed to the 10% of bare bone in the prey model). This SEEMS to be in conflict with the prey model ratio, but if you were to pick apart a frankenprey menu and weigh and measure every single thing separately, you would find that the ratio of meat to organ to bone would be very close to 80:10:10.
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Post by gfountain on Oct 22, 2014 19:52:18 GMT -5
Below are a few of the things you will need to know as a raw feeder no matter which method of feeding you choose to use. All of this information is located in various places on the forum, but I’ve tried to condense some of the basics here for reference. This seems like a lot of information, but believe me, once you get into the actual planning and feeding, this becomes second nature. First, raw food MUST be served RAW. I know that sounds like a really obvious statement, but I’ve heard from several people that they feed raw meat, but they cook it. (I know. I don’t understand that statement either, lol.) Cooking destroys many natural vitamins, minerals, and proteins in the meat and bones. In fact, cooked bones are extremely dangerous because they can splinter and perforate the stomach or intestines. Raw bones do not splinter; they break cleanly. They pass through the intestinal tract safely and the clean edges are actually smoothed by the stomach acids. They come out the other end a little rubbery feeling, and rounded with no sharp edges. (This video shows the effect of a stomach acid on bones. link ) Raw meat is safe for ferrets to eat. A ferret’s digestive tract is very short and bacteria doesn’t have enough time to set up camp in there. And, surprisingly, raw food can be safely left out for several hours at a time, depending on the ambient temperature: “Soups” - 6-8 hours (for soup recipe, see below) Grinds - 8-12 hours Chunks - 10-24 hours depending on the size (larger chunks last longer) Bone-in meats - 12-24 hours, again depending on the size Whole prey - up to 48 hours With soups and grinds, in general, trust your nose - if it smells off, it likely is and should be tossed. You will find that the bigger chunks of meat typically go through a few stages. During the ‘safe’ hours it will dry up and the surface may feel tough or leathery; it is still safe to eat at this point. Then it goes through a stinky, greasy phase during which most ferrets will not touch it. This is usually when it gets tossed because it smells awful, but occasionally a piece or two will get stashed well enough and missed. These pieces continue to dry out and become fairly odorless, making what we call ‘ferret jerky’. Most ferrets can’t resist this and will eat really nasty looking stuff with relish. If they’re eating it, it’s either not too far gone, or it has been successfully stashed and jerkified. Raw soup recipe 8 oz raw skinless/boneless chicken 1 oz raw chicken liver (about half a liver) 1 oz raw chicken heart (about 2 hearts) ½ tsp. eggshell powder Water to thin Blend all ingredients until soupy. Freeze in ice cube trays (rubbed with olive oil for easy removal) to make easy-to-serve portions and reduce waste. Chicken is the most common protein to start a switch with, but any protein can be used. The amount of food your individual ferret eats will depend on gender, age, season of the year, and his general mood. It can differ dramatically sometimes and until you become familiar with his eating habits, you will have some waste. In general (and with ferrets and their food, we ALWAYS speak in generalities), adult males eat 2-4 ounces per day, adult females 1-3 ounces per day. Kits of either gender eat 2-3 times MORE food than an adult. They all eat more when they are in the fall and winter mode, less in the spring and summer mode. In fact, ferrets can lose up to 40% of their body weight in the spring. Other factors can play a role in their eating habits also, such as stress, excitement, temperature, or attitude (“I just don’t feel like eating chicken today, mom”). Being familiar with your ferret’s eating habits at any given time of the year is important in keeping track of their health. This is one of the reasons we always recommend that you keep a food journal to track appetite, poops, activity, and weights. MOST ferrets are self-regulating and will eat only what they need. This is not to say that there are NO obese ferrets, but as a rule, they eat what they need to survive and no more. A good guideline when feeding is to try to make sure there is always a bite or two left over when you feed the next meal. Ferrets, whether they are fed whole prey, grinds, or frankenprey, or some combination of the three, must have a minimum of 3 DIFFERENT PROTEINS in their diet, preferably including at least one red meat. Examples of different proteins are chicken, turkey, quail, beef, rabbit, pork, venison, lamb, goat, frog, fish, etc. Some common red meats are beef, bison, venison, goat, and lamb. Taurine is an amino acid necessary for heart, brain, and eye health. Taurine is found in muscles that are used A LOT. This is why heart is a required part of the diet. The heart is constantly working, therefore it is very high in taurine. Heart can be ordered online if you cannot find a local supplier. Other good sources of taurine if you cannot find heart are brain and tongue. Brain is VERY difficult for some of us to find, but cow tongue can sometimes be found in grocery stores in locations with a large Asian or Hispanic population. If for some reason, you absolutely cannot get any of these sources of taurine, you can use a taurine supplement (500 mg per ferret per day). The NOW brand is a good one to use because it has no fillers in it. You can get taurine in capsule form, which you can break open and empty onto a meal, or pure powder form. (500mg of taurine is equivalent to ⅛ teaspoon.) Eggs are a very healthy addition to a ferret’s diet and help in the prevention of hairballs. Generally speaking, a ferret can have the equivalent of one chicken egg per week. (I say the equivalent of a chicken egg because quail eggs, for example, are very small and it takes 4 or 5 of them to equal one chicken egg.) A whole egg is basically a completely balanced meal, designed to provide complete nutrition and waste removal for a baby bird. Therefore, ferrets can be fed the entire egg, shell and all. Whether you want to serve the egg all at once or spread it out (a little bit several times a week) is up to you. Some ferrents choose to only serve part of the egg. In this case, it MUST be the yolk - do not feed egg whites without the yolk. During shedding season, eggs can be fed 2-3 times per week to help prevent hairballs from forming. One thing to be aware of when feeding eggs is that they can create slimy, stinky poops. And speaking of poop, poop patrol is going to become a fact of your life. A raw fed ferret’s poop is NOTHING like a kibble poop. Their poops change from meal to meal depending on what they last ate. Here is a link to the ‘poop chart’ for reference. ( poop chart) You will likely become a little (or a lot) obsessed with your fuzzy’s litter box for the next few weeks at least, and very likely you will soon be able to tell what your ferret ate for dinner just by looking in the litter box. (You can brag about this talent to your friends if you want, lol.) In addition to his activity level, a ferret’s output is the best indicator of his health. It is also how we determine if your fuzzy needs more or less bone in his diet. As mentioned earlier, the diet should include 10-15% bone. Sometimes they need a little more bone, sometimes a little less, depending on the poops. If the poops are loose, they need more bone. If the fuzzy is constipated, or poops look dry and hard or chalky, they need less bone. Blood-rich meats (hearts, organs) will cause dark, looser poops; heavy bone meals (like chicken necks) will cause drier, more formed poops that often have tiny bits of partially digested bone in them. Another thing to expect during the first few weeks is STINKY poops! Your ferret is basically on a detox from the nasty things that are in kibble. While his digestive tract gets used to processing the raw, his stools will be stinky and odd looking most days. This will all clear up and you will have smaller, less stinky raw poops before you know it!
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Post by gfountain on Oct 22, 2014 19:56:58 GMT -5
FRANKENPREY The goal with frankenprey is to mimic what a ferret would eat in the wild, with the correct balance of organs, muscle meats, and bones, using foods that you can find at your grocery store. Each part of a prey animal has a unique combination of vitamins and minerals that are essential to the health of your ferret. A long term imbalance in their diet can and will cause serious health issues, so it is critical that you plan your meals in advance to ensure that your little friends get the nutrition they need for a long and happy life.
When feeding frankenprey, there are 4 main PARTS of an animal that we need to feed to meet the diet requirements: muscle meat, heart, organs,and edible bones. Remember that at least 3 proteins are required for complete nutrition. Those 3 proteins should be in the meaty part of the diet, not in the organs. However, you should also have a good variety of sources for organs, not all chicken organs, or all beef organs.
1) Muscle meat is fairly self-explanatory. It is any kind of meat that is NOT an organ, including hearts and gizzards. When discussing muscle meat, however, we are typically referring to skeletal muscle.
2) While heart IS a muscle meat, it is a cardiac muscle rather than a skeletal muscle, and it is in a category by itself because it is a vital source of taurine in a raw diet.
3) Nutritional organs are considered to be any part of the body that SECRETES a hormone. Examples are liver, kidney, thymus, pancreas, reproductive organs, lungs, brains. Liver is the easiest organ to find and should make up at least half of the organ requirement. Other organs can be very difficult to find except directly from a butcher, cultural markets, or online sources. Neither hearts nor gizzards are organs. This is a very common misconception, so be aware of it when shopping for organs. Many meat department personnel and butchers commonly call hearts and gizzards organs, but they are NOT. They are muscle meats, AND heart is a separate requirement in a ferret’s diet (see above).
4) Edible bone is any bone small enough for a ferret to eat. Generally, these are non-weight bearing bones of poultry or small animals. Because we do not feed a bare bone, but rather one with plenty of meat attached, we sort of combine this category with muscle meat and call it “edible bone-in meat”. When I (or others) refer to “bone-in”, this is what we are talking about. If we refer to “muscle meat”, we mean meat that has no bone included (chicken breast, beef roast, etc.) Examples of edible bone-in meats are poultry wings, necks, backs, ribs, sometimes thighs, whole quail, whole Cornish game hen, rabbit, mouse, guinea pig. Sometimes you can find smallish bones from a larger animal that are small enough for a ferret to eat. One example is pork button bones, or pork riblets. Some of those bones are too dense, but occasionally you can find some small enough. Although the bone requirement is only 10-15% of the total diet (remember that we use the poops to determine the bone content), because the bone is attached to muscle meat, edible bone-in meat makes up the majority of a ferret’s diet. It is critical that your fuzzy learn to eat and enjoy bones, for healthy teeth as well as to meet the calcium requirements.
Now, moving on to the basic frankenprey menu: Raw fed ferrets are generally fed twice a day, 12 hours apart, making a total of 14 meals per week. The basic weekly menu should include:
1 ½ meals of heart (~10% of the total diet) 1 ½ meals of organ, at least half of which must be liver (~5% liver, 5% other organ) 7-9 meals of edible bone-in meat (~50-60%) 2-4 meals of muscle meat with no bone (~15-30%)
When building your menu, you want to consider the effect a particular meal will have on the poops. For example, remember that blood rich meals (liver, other organs, hearts) cause looser poops, so to combat that issue, you want to feed at least one bone-in meal between them. It is best to spread organ/heart meals out as much as possible throughout the week.
This is easier than it sounds. Below is a sample menu (in the format I will want yours to be, when we get to the menu making part, once your ferret is eating all kinds of yummy stuff).
Sun AM: organ meal (½ liver, ½ other organ) Sun PM: edible bone-in meat
Mon AM: edible bone-in meat (or muscle) Mon PM: edible bone-in meat
Tues AM: heart Tues PM: edible bone-in meat
Wed AM: muscle meat Wed PM: edible bone-in meat
Thur AM: heart and organ (½ liver, ½ other organ) Thur PM: edible bone-in meat
Fri AM: edible bone-in meat (or muscle) Fri PM: edible bone-in meat
Sat AM: muscle meat Sat PM: edible bone-in meat
You will take this basic menu and rearrange it to suit your needs, making sure to include at least 3 different proteins, and adjusting the bone-in meals depending on the poops. It is important to be flexible with your feedings. If you notice runny poops and have hearts planned for that meal, you can give a bone-in meal instead, and save the hearts for the following meal if their poops have firmed up. Don’t worry about not having something defrosted if you have to make a last minute change. Ferrets are perfectly content with ‘meat-sicles’. Some ferrets will require the full 9 meals of bone-in, while others only need 7, and this can vary from week to week depending on different factors. It won’t take long for you to figure out what YOUR ferrets need.
The easiest way to prepare meals is to have your meat separated into serving size portions (once you learn the correct amount for your business) in your freezer. Once you have your menu planned, it’s easy to grab one bag or container per meal. When you serve one meal, you can put the next meal into the refrigerator to thaw. It’s good to keep an extra bag or container of bone-in and muscle meat available in case you need to make a substitution, or your fuzzies beg for a snack.
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Post by gfountain on Oct 22, 2014 20:00:30 GMT -5
Congratulations! You’ve made it to the end of this mini-book, lol! If you waded through all that information, you can do this switch! I have faith in you, so don’t feel overwhelmed by this information overload and get discouraged. We’ll do this in baby steps, and we’ll go over all this information again as it becomes necessary. I PROMISE THIS IS EASIER THAN IT SEEMS!!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 21:28:47 GMT -5
Whew, that is a lot of info haha BUT thankfully, I have done my studying so I know what's to come! (dance) Still, it's wonderful info for reference like you said so thank you very much. I had no idea Chanel was underweight I thought he was a chunkster because he loves to eat a lot. (and poop a lot. Seriously, it is crazy how much he poops!) Alright anywho, I'm gonna make the soup tonight and give them some! I'll post back with how it goes!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 11:23:41 GMT -5
Hey Gina, I gave them the soup this morning. I couldn't do it last night because I didn't thaw anything. As usual with trying anything new, Coco didn't even want to lick my finger and taste it. I put some on his nose and he shook his head and then he ran away. Chanel started licking the soup right away (I'm thinking because I added some salmon oil on top of it) but he did taste some of the soup, I'm sure. But a few minutes later, he stopped eating it. I also forgot to add the eggshell powder (headwall) , is it alright or do I need to make a new batch? And the soup was a little cold, does it matter?
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Post by gfountain on Oct 23, 2014 14:37:55 GMT -5
Chanel is the white one, right? That's the one with the waistline; the darker one looks good. Did I get them mixed up?
They HAVE to have that eggshell, but you have a couple of options for getting it in there. You can either thaw all your soup, re-measure and add the correct amount of eggshell, then refreeze, OR (my choice) you can put your eggshell powder in a salt shaker and just sprinkle it on when you serve it. Only do that for this batch though; for the next batch, be sure to add it in. Sprinkling it is not quite as accurate as having it measured and mixed in.
Temperature is only important if your guys don't like cold stuff. One of mine prefers room temperature food, the other will eat frozen food. That's entirely a personal choice and you'll just have to figure out their preferences. IF you warm it, do so by adding a little hot water to it before you serve it. DON'T warm it in the microwave.
So the silly little things aren't overly fond of the soup, huh? At least you didn't get ferret dramatics. Some ferrets have been known to gag, hiss, spit, and be otherwise overly-dramatic, lol. My Slinkee actually took a huge mouthful of soup, turned to face me, and deliberately spit it out all over me!
Go easy on the salmon oil. It's OK to use a little to get them started on it, but we don't want them to REQUIRE it in order to eat. It sounds like you're going to need to play 'grab-n-dab' for a while. While they're out playing, just grab them up and dab some of that soup on their noses and mouths. They won't like the feel of it so they'll have to lick it off. If you can, rub a little on their gums and tongues also. You'll do this every 5 minutes or so... yes, it's time-consuming, but so worth it eventually when you see them stick their greedy little noses into a dish of food that's actually good for them. At some point (maybe today, maybe next week or next month) they'll stick around and want to lick some more off your finger or the spoon. When that happens depends entirely on your fuzzies' determination to not like it and YOUR persistence in making them like it.
Many people who fail to switch their ferrets don't make it because of this step right here. This is by far the most difficult part. You are asking them to accept, and even like, a new taste AND a new texture, something they have NO idea is even food! It requires patience, persistence, and consistency. You have to do it every day, multiple times per day. YOU have to out-stubborn some of the most stubborn creatures on the planet. Your determination and the knowledge that you're working toward better health is what will get you through this step to the next big hurdle. DON'T GIVE UP!!!!! When you feel like you're getting nowhere and your fuzzies are winning the battle, get on here and rant at me. I'll give you a pep talk so you can go back and start again.
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Post by gfountain on Oct 23, 2014 14:41:43 GMT -5
And about Chanel's poops... there will be fewer of them soon.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 21:22:45 GMT -5
Hello, hello Yep Chanel is the underweight white one and Coco is the brown one (my avatar) I remember Coco's name more easily because coco is like chocolate and he's a brown color. Alright I'll sprinkle the eggshell for this batch and I won't forget it the next! Wow, Slinkee purposefully spit it in your face? Haha, that's intense. How did you ever get him to eat it again! I'm not gonna give up either. I've got you and everyone else on here to cheer me on! :banana:
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