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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 14:17:48 GMT -5
Your Harry looks so much like my Roamy. I see the seasonal change in his mask. In the Winter, it slips to a V shape and in the Summer, it is a full mask. Winter brings more of their undercoat out. The undercoat is mostly white or cream. That means that we see less of the Guard Hairs. The Guard Hairs (Top Coat) is where their color and pattern comes from. The softness comes from the raw diet and is usually pretty quick to show up. This is my Roamy: Blurry photo though If the Duck Stock was simply the water from boiling bones with nothing like salt added, it should be fine. Be careful that there is no bone in it. Cooked bone can splinter and is dangerous. I have seen a thread where someone boiled their bones into a mush and Sherry said that was okay. But, it has to really be a fine mush with no possible splinters. Just the idea scares me, so I won't try it. I do what you do and add some water at the bottom of the plate, to keep the food moist and make a sort of gravy. They do get much more hydrated on raw. My waterbowl is usually half full, and I freshen it twice a day, but Wynstan snorkels in it and most of the water is spilled. You already know that you will get funky poops during the switch and each new protein will cause the funky poops again. I know the FDR has bone in it, but I didn't see where you answered about adding eggshell powder or bonemeal powder to the raw. Are you doing that?
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Post by ferretbrah on Dec 3, 2014 14:37:31 GMT -5
Thanks, yeah they look very similar right now haha.
As for the egg shell, I stopped adding it when I stopped doing their chicken soups when doing the switch.
Should I be adding about a 1/2 teaspoon per 1oz of grind to see if that helps firm things up?
As for the duck broth, i will have to show a picture of it but it looks like there is no bone fragments. I got the suggestion from another thread about giving it to them to make a gravy over the food (when serving duck) or when they are sick since it likely has some marrow in it.
For brooklyn's cough/hack noise , the quail egg did seem to help a bit and what really helped minimize it was putting them both in the bathroom while I ran hot water to steam it up pretty good for about 10 mins. I think it opened up their nose and throat a bit just like a sauna would. She is sill doing it but now much less than before and no snot bubbles since that first time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 14:43:46 GMT -5
Add 1/2 tsp per 8 ounces of meat. See if that helps firm things up.
That was a good idea about the sauna. You can try some more egg or even a little oil to coat her throat. Periodically, they all cough or hack, especially around the season changes when they groom more. It's just scarey if they get panicky over it. That's when I pull out the Bach's Rescue Remedy.
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Post by ferretbrah on Dec 3, 2014 15:27:10 GMT -5
Yeah that definitely gets my attention when they start hacking.
I was also thinking about throwing in half a heart for each 2x a week just to ensure that they are getting enough heart with the grinds.
I really want to get to the point of feeding them Frankenprey /small whole prey (mice, quail) diet. And then grinds when it is super expensive or difficult to find sug as the goat / pheasant / rabbit
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 12:07:52 GMT -5
That's a good idea. On Frankenprey, we want ten percent of their intake to be Hearts/Taurine. Since the grinds don't tell you how much Heart you are getting, it's better to be safe. Taurine doesn't build up in their system like Liver does. I think you already know this, but I'll repeat it, just in case. Taurine is also found in meats, that's why we begin with chicken thighs. The more an animal uses his muscle, the more Taurine is found in it. Tongue for example is actually higher in Taurine than Heart. We use Heart in the Frankenprey menu, in part because the Frankenprey menu is designed to mimic eating whole prey.
Goat/pheasant and rabbit can be expensive. You want a red meat meal, so you can use less expensive red meats like regular old Beef. You want a variety of proteins, but they don't all have to be expensive or "Gourmet". A simple menu with easy to find proteins is also good. Then you can offer the more expensive cuts for special occasions, just like we do for ourselves.
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Post by ferretbrah on Dec 6, 2014 0:16:43 GMT -5
Yeah. I think I will get them some ground chuck to try this weekend if that sounds good for a cheap red meat .
Then I am going to price out another commercial raw order and possibly get some mice too.
The ones I am going to look at are hare-today again and mypetcarnivore unless there is another good one. I'd rather not do the rodent pro if all they have are mice since I want to for sure get pheasant / goat probably in the order
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 19:47:03 GMT -5
Have you tried the ground chuck yet? I know it's only half way thru the weekend, I was just curious.
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Post by ferretbrah on Dec 6, 2014 21:39:14 GMT -5
Not yet. I looked at the store and found organic grass-fed beef. It said it had no hormones, grass fed organic. But it did not mention no anti-biotics. It looked like these, but a different brand. Should I try an organic store like whole foods or trader joes to get the beef? I heard that ferrets do better on organic beef since most of it is pumped full of bad stuff. Or just try out the ground chuck that I bought?
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Post by ferretbrah on Dec 7, 2014 1:03:04 GMT -5
So I made a few "Fake orders" on the different sites to compare what I may be interested in. Not necessarily meaning I would get everything on each order list. I want whatever helps me make the best full meal plan in addition to what I already have or have access to.
Rodent Pro Price Per
50 Mice - Dark Large Adults $0.70 $35.00 1 Rabbits - Medium (Discounted price applied for hot item special) $8.00 $8.00
10 Guinea Pigs - Medium (Discounted price applied for hot item special) $1.25 $12.50
3 Chickens - Extra Large (XL) (Discounted price applied for hot item special) $1.99 $5.97
10 Quail - Retired Breeder $2.25 $22.50 Product Total: $83.97 Shipping Total: $29.00 * * Cost of packing materials, dry ice, and insurance are included.
Grand Total: $112.97
Hare-Today Price Per pound Ground Goat/Bones/Tripe/Organs, 5 lb $4.94 $24.70 Ground Goose/Bone/Organs, 1 lb $5.95 $5.95 Ground Duck/Bones/Organs, 5 lb $4.44 $22.20 Ground Beef Pancreas, 1 lb $3.99 $3.99 Ground Llama/Bones/Organs/Tripe, 5 lb $6.14 $30.70 Ground Whole Carcass Mouse, 1 lb $12.99 $12.99 Ground Pheasant/Bone/Organs, 1 lb $8.99 $8.99 Ground Pork/Bones/Organs, 5 lb $3.74 $18.70 Ground Quail/Bones/Organs, 1 lb $10.99 $10.99 Ground Rabbit, Whole Carcass -Fur and All, 5 lb $4.94 $24.70
Ground Mutton/Bones/Organs, 5 lb $3.96 $19.70 Freeze Packs Freeze Packs $1.00
Sub-Total: $184.61
MyPetCarnivore
Price per pound 2 x Ground Goat Pancreas-1 LB. $5.95 $11.90
2 x Ground Lamb Pancreas-1 LB. $4.98 $9.95 1 x Ground Whole Llama-2 LB. $4.98 $9.95 1 x Fine Ground Whole Chicken-1 LB. $2.20 $2.20 1 x Ground Beef Spleen-1 LB. $2.20 $2.20 1 x Ground Chicken without Giblets-2 LB. $1.99 $3.98 1 x Fine Ground Whole Duck-1 LB. $1.93 $3.85 1 x Coarse Ground Whole Goat-2 LB. $4.75 $9.50 1 x Coarse Ground Whole Mutton-2 LB. $3.75 $7.50 1 x Fine Ground Whole Rabbit-1 LB. $4.60 $4.60 1 x Fine Ground Whole Turkey-1 LB. $3.40 $3.40
Total : $70.97
Local Asian Market:
6 Medium / small quail $10.50 1.75 Each
Whole Duck - $15.00 (Maybe 5 pounds? Good size - about length of forearm)
Pork Brains
Pork Kidney
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Post by ferretbrah on Dec 7, 2014 1:10:24 GMT -5
So Take a look at all of those potential items above....
What I have now or easy access to:
Chicken Hearts, Chicken Livers, Chicken Necks, Duck Hearts, Duck Livers, Ground Chicken/Bones/Organs, Coarse Ground Ground Duck/Bones/Organs Ground Quail/Bones/Organs, (Whole quail grinded from asian market or try to re-try whole prey) Turkey Hearts, Turkey Livers, Cornish game hens Ground Chuck Chicken Drumsticks Chicken Breast Chicken Thighs Chicken Wings Quail Eggs
I'll take a look at a local organic store (whole foods / trader joes) to check out what they offer for organic beef and chicken without anti-biotics, hormones, etc)
I would definitely be interested in at least a few whole prey items (Mice, Quail) Not sure on which size of mice I should be getting or what kind from myrodent pro If I source it from there. The quail seems like a better buy there as well due to them being much bigger vs. smaller quail at the Asian market for about the same price.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 15:44:40 GMT -5
That's some interesting info. I've looked at those sites, but shipping to my area was $50. We're rather rural.
You're going to have some great variety in your proteins. That's terrific.
One note: I'd avoid anything with tripe. It's going to be really smelly, tripe has little nutrients and your little guys will not want anything to do with it.
As for your beef, I just buy regular grocery store beef. Bitbyter has a little girl who is sensitive to non organic products, but mine have been doing fine on the same beef that we eat.
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Post by ferretbrah on Dec 8, 2014 0:42:02 GMT -5
So if I add those, my potential menu sourcing list is: Organs: Chicken Livers Duck Livers Turkey Livers, Pork Brains Pork Kidney Ground Beef Pancreas Ground Goat Pancreas Ground Beef Spleen Muscle Meats
Chicken Hearts, Turkey Hearts Duck Hearts, Whole Prey:Mice - Dark Large Adults Quail - Retired Breeder Meat with consumable bone
Ground Chicken/Bones/Organs, Coarse Ground Ground Duck/Bones/Organs Ground Quail/Bones/Organs, (Whole quail grinded or try to re-try whole prey) Cornish game hens Chicken Wings Chicken Drumsticks Chicken Thighs Chicken Necks, Chicken Breast Ground Whole Llama- Fine Ground Whole Chicken Ground Chicken without Giblets Fine Ground Whole Duck Coarse Ground Whole Goat Coarse Ground Whole Mutton Fine Ground Whole Rabbit Fine Ground Whole Turkey Whole ground pork Ground Goose/Bone/Organs Ground Pheasant/Bone/Organs, Red Meats:
Ground chuck OtherQuail Eggs Average weekly menu would be: 7-9 meals consumable bone 3-4 meals muscle meats[at least 1.5 of which NEEDS to be heart (heart should be about 10% of the total diet)] 1.5 meals of approx 2oz liver and 2oz other organ.(This can change over time depending on how much your ferret eats, but is a good starting point. Total should be about 10% of weekly diet) How would this look? I guess I need like 2 different weeks to interchange everything. I believe mice / rabbit frequency should be pretty high if that's what they would eat mainly in the wild. Monday: AM: Mice PM: Quail -added heart slivers Tuesday: AM: Duck Grind with Duck Heart PM: Fine Ground Whole Rabbit -Add Heart Wednesday: AM: Coarse Ground Whole Goat PM: Ground Whole Llama Wednesday: AM: Chicken Wing, Liver, Organ PM: mice Thursday: AM: Whole ground pork with added heart PM: Fine Ground Whole Rabbit, added heart, Quail Egg Friday: AM: Quail PM: Cornish game hen Saturday: AM: Chicken Thighs, liver, organ PM: Ground Chuck, Heart, organ Sunday: AM: mice PM: Cornish game hen
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Post by ferretbrah on Dec 9, 2014 22:49:51 GMT -5
Bunp. Should I make those orders for rodent pro and mypetcarnivore ? (Will order at least 5 pounds of most things to make it last longer this time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2014 15:01:45 GMT -5
Since I'm a Mentor in Training and I don't feed Whole Prey or Grinds, let me tag someone to look over your menu. It's a little complicated and will be a good learning experience for me also. gfountain and Heather would you look at this menu: katt, when you have a minute?
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Post by gfountain on Dec 10, 2014 15:40:29 GMT -5
My first thought - your protein variety is awesome! Lucky ferts!
Your menu thoroughly confused me at first because you have 2 Wednesdays. I counted and recounted meals and I just couldn't figure out WHY I kept getting 16 total meals, lol. (7 grinds, 5 whole prey, and 4 chicken/CGH) Your organ requirements should be met with the grinds & whole prey and you're adding in extra heart. The only thing I see to be wary of is their dental health. With at least half of their meals having whole bone, they should be OK, but I would just keep an eye on their teeth because some grinds tend to stick to the teeth more than others.
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