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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 29, 2014 8:03:04 GMT -5
Here's hate-today's email reply about the grinds: " Your order was poultry which whole birds run around 15-20% bone depending on species and size. Organs which are ground with this is listed in product descriptions. On poultry heart, liver and gizzard. You can add boneless meats to this to offset the bone if need be. Watch the stools. It they are straining to go then add more meat or feed some boneless meals to offset bone. You do not have to feed "balance of 80/10/10 at every meal. You are aiming for the balance over time. Ferrets are not my expertise but my understanding is the same supplements for cats can be used for ferrets. We offer the Alnutrin supplement which is a basic supplement or if you want to follow your own recipe I have one here www.hare-today.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=291 "
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Post by gfountain on Oct 29, 2014 9:39:03 GMT -5
Well, first of all heart and gizzard are NOT organs! So the only organ you actually have in the grind is liver. And you have extra liver.. hmmm. Do they state anywhere on the product description the percentage of 'organ' that is included? I have an idea about this, but I am going to think about it for a while and get back to you later. Just re-read... LOL @ your typo "hate-today"
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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 29, 2014 10:26:51 GMT -5
10/27
Morning:
Harry: 0.2 fdr chicken
Noon: fdr duck 0.8 oz each
Evening:
Quail 1oz each
Total:
Harry: 2oz (1oz fdr, 1oz raw) Brooklyn: 1.8oz (0.8oz fdr, 1oz raw)
10/28
Morning:
Fdr turkey 1oz each
Evening:
Quail: 1oz each
Total : 2oz each (1oz raw, 1oz fdr)
] Both have been more active playing. Brooklyn had about an 80% tarry stool overnight.
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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 29, 2014 10:47:13 GMT -5
It looks like they don't have the organ % listed , and if they did, it would include heart , gizzard and liver in it only., scewing the % figure.
Harry's poop looks like it is getting better, while Brooklyn's is getting tarry and staying seedy diarrhea consistency. Is this from potentially too much liver in the grinds?
Not sure what I should do to help with that. [
I could also try and source another organ..but I'm not sure which one and where to find it locally. (I live in St. Louis)
Oh ,my phone tends to have some typos with its spell check lol
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2014 12:26:25 GMT -5
Seedy poops are undigested fats. During a switch to any new foods, you can expect strange looking poops. This scares a ferrent, but their poops will settle down and become nice and normal. Which means smaller poops (less wasted food and nutrients from kibble filler) and less smelly.
Like Gina said, for our purposes, Hearts and gizzards are not organs. Organs are secreting organs, like Liver/thymus/spleen/pancreas/kidney and brain.
Heart is a muscle meat and so is gizzards. Heart has Taurine in it and that is necessary and very important for ferrets. They actually need a higher level of taurine than cats do.
Gizzards are wonderful for cleaning teeth and building jaw strength.
As for sourcing another organ, try some Asian markets. They are a great source or organs and other exotic meats.
Which FDR product are you using?
I'm doing some research today for you and looking for one of our Ferrents who feed commercial grinds. Give me a little more time and I'll get back to you.
The whole idea behind the Frankenprey menu is to mimic eating Whole Prey. When they eat Whole prey, they consume almost the entire animal. Fur, organs, meat and bone.
As for sourcing another organ
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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 29, 2014 14:36:25 GMT -5
I use Stella & chewys fdr : duck, turkey, and chicken for cats
Good to know about the seedy poops...as for the tar stools for Brooklyn, is that too much liver in the grinds, or will that settle itself too?
My plan with the fdr was to eventually supplement it as a treat or for meals in which I am in a hurry to make or if I forgot to thaw the night before etc.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 11:59:36 GMT -5
I use Stella & chewys fdr : duck, turkey, and chicken for cats Good to know about the seedy poops...as for the tar stools for Brooklyn, is that too much liver in the grinds, or will that settle itself too? My plan with the fdr was to eventually supplement it as a treat or for meals in which I am in a hurry to make or if I forgot to thaw the night before etc. Stella and Chewy's is a good product. I used that also. Too bad that it's so expensive (when you have five). I'm transitioning my newest, Keller to raw and supplement with that. I also use it for foraging treats and it's on my Ferret Emergency shelf. We're in Tornado country. Tarry poops are usually from heart/liver. Just keep an eye on them. Bleeding ulcers can also cause tarry poops, not to alarm you, it's just info. You will usually get tarry poops/looser poops after organ meals. I don't know if there is too much in your grinds. I'm still working on researching grinds. I'm tagging bitbyter and see what he says.
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Post by bitbyter on Oct 30, 2014 12:56:00 GMT -5
As for the one with the tar stools, it could be to much organ but as Poncesmom said it could also be an ulcer. Any sign of pawing at the mouth or grinding of the teeth? Try switching to just plain chicken or another single meat for a few days and see if it changes.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 13:22:34 GMT -5
Definitely agree with the others for the poops. I think it's pretty normal since they were used to digesting kibbles. My Gizmo had those weird poops at first. Also, if you give them too much heart or liver, their poops can look very dark and kind of liquid. As for the seedy poops, did they have them when kibble fed? because my Gizmo had those seedy poops and since he eats barf, no seeds anymore.
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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 30, 2014 15:03:09 GMT -5
Thanks guys.
They were getting watery diarrhea seedy poops sometimes on kibble.
I am probably due to get a checkup for them so I will schedule that for the next week or two if possible, maybe even get a blood test for both of them to see where they are at on b/g levels etc even though they are not showing signs.
Could they really be getting too much organ though with the grinds, since they have heart, liver, and gizzard if applicable listed under organs for hare-today?
They are not pawing at the mouth or anything like that.
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Post by gfountain on Oct 30, 2014 15:21:10 GMT -5
If ALL you're giving them is the whole grinds, they're not getting too much organ. Heart, or really any blood-rich meat, will give them more organ-like poops. I really think Brooklyn's poops are going to level out pretty soon. It's still early in their switch and funky poops are normal until their little bodies adjust to the new food. But definitely get them vetted if you're concerned. It's always better to err on the side of caution.
I'm still thinking about a menu plan for you, but there is some information I want to check on and haven't had time.
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Post by ferretbrah on Nov 3, 2014 14:12:49 GMT -5
10/29
Morning:
0.7oz fdr chicken each
Evening:
Harry: raw duck grind 1.4oz Brooklyn: 1.1oz
Total: Harry: 2.1oz (1.4oz raw, 0.7 fdr) Brooklyn: 1.8oz (1.1oz raw, 0.7 fdr)
10/30
Morning
Fdr chicken : 0.5oz each
Evening:
Raw pheasant grind :
Brooklyn: 1.5oz Harry: 1.3oz
Total: Harry: 1.8oz (1.3 raw, 0.5 fdr) Brooklyn: 2.0oz (1.5 raw, 0.5 fdr )
10/31
Morning:
Fdr duck 0.8oz each
Evening:
1oz raw mixed turkey /pheasant each
Total: 1.8oz (1oz raw, 0.8oz fdr)
11/1
Morning:
1oz raw mixed turkey / pheasant each
Evening:
Fdr turkey 0.8 harry 0.7oz Brooklyn
Total: Harry: 1.8oz (1oz raw, 0.8 fdr) Brooklyn: 1.7oz (1oz raw, 0.7 fdr)
11/2
Morning: Raw quail 1oz each
Evening:
Raw quail 1oz each
Total: 2oz raw
They seem to like quail the best so far, even though I still have to hand scruff feed them about half the time
Poops are looking more formed 'more consistently.
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Post by ferretbrah on Nov 5, 2014 11:07:08 GMT -5
11/3
Morning:
Fdr turkey : 0.4oz each
Evening :
Raw chicken: 1oz each
Night: Raw duck 1oz each
Total: 2.4oz (2oz raw, 0.4 fdr)
11/4
Morning
Fdr turkey: 0.5oz each
Evening
Fdr turkey 0.5oz each
Night:
Raw duck 1oz each
Total: 2oz (1oz raw, 1oz fdr)
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Post by ferretbrah on Nov 5, 2014 11:12:50 GMT -5
Last night I noticed that Brooklyn has like a film on her right eye. It looks like two circles peeling or something...I made a vet appointment but the closest time they can see her and harry is Friday evening.
She must have ran into something or got scratched on accident while they were playing.
I'll try to get a picture up but it will be pretty hard to get it in the right lighting. It is not covering her whole eye but probably around the middle.
Have not had enough time to determine if it is effecting her vision or not. She does not seem to be in any pain.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 12:51:09 GMT -5
Brooklyn is only a year and a half, that seems to young for cataracts. Let's see what the vet says on Friday.
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