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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 7, 2014 21:34:42 GMT -5
Well, I figure I will start a log until I get a mentor+15 posts. They have been on Wysong Digestive Support + Evo Ferret+ FDR Stella & Chewy's Turkey, Duck, and Chicken. For the past week, only on the FDR, and now Raw soup. I would like to put them on a full frankenprey diet. 2 Ferrets. Harry (Male; Polecat coloring) 1.5 Years, going on 2 soon Underweight No health problems that I know of Brooklyn (Female, Sable?) 8 months or so No health issues that I know of I will have to weigh them asap. Hard to get them to stay on my scale long enough. Currently, they are on the FDR rotation for 1 meal, and then the past 3 days with about 1.5 oz of raw soup each for the evening. The soup recipe I am using is : 8 oz Chicken thigh (With bone) 1 oz Chicken Liver 1-1.5 oz (1.5 Chicken hearts) About a half cup of water (Party-cup size) No egg shells currently as they are still drying and I am buying a coffee grinder asap. *Just bought one on 10/7* Supplements are: Petroleum Jelly as a laxative twice every two-weeks or so if they start coughing a lot FDR chicken liver 1x-2x a week (Harry only) Instinct Cat FDR chicken treats 1.5x a week (Harry only) Wysong Dream treats Quail –About a 7th of a dream treat every week. A few licks of ferret tone every 2 weeks 1x every 2-3 weeks of the skin/coat ferret treats (Stopped giving them) 1-2x Peanut Butter flavored Bandit treats every 2 weeks (Stopped giving them)
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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 7, 2014 21:50:34 GMT -5
10/4/14Morning: -Ate Stella & Chewy’s FDR Chicken about 1.5 oz each Dinner: -Raw soup about 1.25 oz each -About .75 oz each of turkey fdr overnight Total: 3.5oz Each ; 2.25oz FDR ; 1.25oz Raw 10/5/14Morning: -FDR Duck 1.5 oz each Dinner: -Almost 1.5 oz each of raw soup, some FDR turkey overnight Total: 2.95 oz Each ; 1.75oz FDR ; 1.5oz Raw As a side note, got their nails trimmed and attempted to brush their teeth since Harry had a vet clean his about 5-6 months ago, and Brooklyn never had it done. Not sure how I can go about getting them to let you brush them. Harry was shaking bad from being scared and even pee’d himself a little bit before we stopped after a few attempts 10/6/14 Morning: -FDR turkey – about 1oz each in the morning, then maybe 0.5 oz of FDR duck Evening: Harry ate FDR duck 1.5oz Brooklyn- Raw soup 1.5 oz Total: 3oz Harry (0oz Raw, Brooklyn ate it all by the time he was hungry) ; Brooklyn: 3oz; 1.5oz FDR ; 1.5oz Raw Notes: Poops are slightly smaller than a penny in size, and most have been a medium to dark green with parts having a ‘seedy-look’ to them (They have had seedy stools in the past with FDR/Kibble. Brooklyn ate a good bit on her own while the bowl was out after waking up. Harry has to eat it off your finger still. Energy levels seem to be slightly increased compared to normal, investigating toys to hide and wrestle around. One question: With it getting colder (Midwest), should I be letting them out in the yard every day for like 10-15 minutes to simulate the seasonal change for their winter coats? I already let them out probably 2 times a week to explore in an area with plants/weeds. 10/7/14Morning: -Maybe 0.25 oz each FDR chicken in the morning; another 0.5oz each of turkey throughout the day. Evening: -1.25oz of raw for Brooklyn, and 1oz raw + 0.5oz FDR turkey for Harry. Total: Harry: 2.25oz; 1oz raw; 1.25oz FDR Brooklyn: 2oz; 1.25 raw; .75oz FDR Notes: Tried a plate for the raw for the first time and it seemed to make it a bit easier for them to have incentive to eat it without my help.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2014 11:03:43 GMT -5
Harry and Brooklyn are very cute. What makes you think Harry is underweight? If you can post a picture of him Dangling,(hold him around the shoulders and just let him dangle) that will help. Harry should be straight up and down, without a waist line. You should be able to feel his ribs, but not see them.
You said that you are using chicken thigh with bone. How are you grinding the bone? I ask because the eggshell is a substitute for bone, so if you are using bone, you don't need the eggshell.
They will need to be coaxed at first, so don't feel bad about sitting and hand feeding them. It builds a nice bond with them and they feel safe knowing that you are there and that the food is okay to eat. Plus you can usually get a few more bites in them with coaxing.
Taking them for a walk is great. I wouldn't let them loose without a harness or leash though, unless you are sure that your area is ferretproof and you are there to supervise.
Seedy poops are undigested fats. How green is the poop and is it always green? Green poops can be stress. ECE causes green poops, but unless they have been around a new ferret, that shouldn't be the cause. Switching does cause strange looking poops and you can expect that for awhile.
If you can pick up a Petscale, that would be a good idea. It's smart to weigh them regularly and that will alert you to any possible weight changes that could indicate a possible problem. Ferrets gain weight in the winter and lose weight in the Spring, so you can expect weight changes then.
It sounds like you are off to a good start. :thumbsup:
Start cutting back on the water, a little each meal until the soup is a thicker consistency.
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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 8, 2014 21:25:43 GMT -5
Harry and Brooklyn are very cute. What makes you think Harry is underweight? If you can post a picture of him Dangling,(hold him around the shoulders and just let him dangle) that will help. Harry should be straight up and down, without a waist line. You should be able to feel his ribs, but not see them. I will try to get a better picture of him to better show his weight. Sometimes he looks pretty bad where his hips are completely shown and it is pretty much just his back there (In the morning and sometimes at night if he doesn't eat much throughout the day)
You said that you are using chicken thigh with bone. How are you grinding the bone? I ask because the eggshell is a substitute for bone, so if you are using bone, you don't need the eggshell. For the first two batches, I used a boning knife and cut everything in pieces, then put it all in a good blender. Seemed to work well. With future and harder bones, I will probably cut and then crush them with one of those meat mallets. They will need to be coaxed at first, so don't feel bad about sitting and hand feeding them. It builds a nice bond with them and they feel safe knowing that you are there and that the food is okay to eat. Plus you can usually get a few more bites in them with coaxing. That is definitely true! Harry shakes sometimes while being held or even if he is eating it from the plate while we watch, but he seems more willing if it is from my finger/palm.Taking them for a walk is great. I wouldn't let them loose without a harness or leash though, unless you are sure that your area is ferretproof and you are there to supervise. Yeah, we always put them in their harness if its at a park and make sure there are no other animals or people around. In our yard, they typically do not have it on, but we surround them and make sure they don't wander off too far.Seedy poops are undigested fats. How green is the poop and is it always green? Green poops can be stress. ECE causes green poops, but unless they have been around a new ferret, that shouldn't be the cause. Switching does cause strange looking poops and you can expect that for awhile. Brooklyn gave Harry ECE when we first got her, and it hit Harry hard and took about 3 weeks to get over. As for the color, it has been a medium to medium-dark green, or it will be half green and half light or dark brown. Usually at least half of it is seedy, and soft. They have had that for a few months, but now less seedy. If you can pick up a Petscale, that would be a good idea. It's smart to weigh them regularly and that will alert you to any possible weight changes that could indicate a possible problem. Ferrets gain weight in the winter and lose weight in the Spring, so you can expect weight changes then. I'll see if I can put them in a big bowl while they are sleeping on my scale to see if that works lol.It sounds like you are off to a good start. :thumbsup: Start cutting back on the water, a little each meal until the soup is a thicker consistency. Will do!
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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 8, 2014 23:57:20 GMT -5
10/8/14
Morning: Ate FDR Duck 1.5oz each Evening: Raw 1.4oz each; FDR Turkey 0.5oz each Total: 3.15oz; 1.75oz FDR , 1.4oz Raw I have been eye-balling the FDR weight for 3oz based on the weight of the raw, but just noticed that the FDR without water weighs much less than the Raw. I am only around FDR being 0.5-.75oz without water added for both combined…and 6oz with water. Should I give more FDR when they have it? The whole package says 12oz. Poop was diarrhea for both twice tonight, with 2 being very watery and the other 2 being a soft-poo puddle, partly with seeds. More pics of Harry and Brooklyn:
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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 14, 2014 12:32:21 GMT -5
10/9/14
Morning :
Fdr turkey 1oz before water added, duck 1 oz
Evening
Raw 2.25 oz each, harry ended up trying to swallow a big chunk and almost choked on it trying to do the 'throw up motion' for about ten seconds until getting it down. Then he would only lick the smaller chunks we tried to give him. Is there a way to make him not afraid of it or to get him to properly tear and chew the food?
Total: 4.25oz each : 2oz fdr , 2.25oz Raw
10/10
Morning
Turkey .25oz , duck 1oz
Evening
2.5 oz each raw. Harry will only eat skin slivers. He won't eat heart chunks at all
Total: 3.25oz each; 1.25oz fdr , 2.5oz raw
10/11
Morning :
Harry fdr turkey 0.3oz , Brooklyn 0.2oz
Mid day: fdr turkey .5oz harry ; brooklyn none
Evening Raw: brooklyn 4oz by herself in one sitting after setting it out for an hour. Harry none
Total: 0.8oz harry fdr
Brooklyn: 4.2oz; 0.2oz fdr , 4oz raw
Tried to set all of the food out today without force feeding, Harry barely ate anything due to this, but was still energetic.
10/12
Morning: none
Mid day (4:30) - fdr duck harry 0.6oz brooklyn 0.4oz
harry picks out the small bone pieces
Evening: about 0.2 oz each of chicken (gave them 0.5oz each, they wouldn't eat it, and I ran out of the raw soup, making new batches tomorrow)
Total: Harry 0.8oz fdr ; Brooklyn 0.6oz fdr
Energy levels were high, no sign of starvation with hips or stomach size either
Poops half diarrhea and others penny sized , somewhat seedy
10/13
Morning: fdr chicken : .2oz each
Afternoon (1pm) : fdr turkey 0.6oz harry , 0.4oz brooklyn
Night: (11pm)
Chicken Drumstick recipe soup with 1/2 tsp powdered egg 2.5oz each.
Total: Harry : 3.3oz (0.8oz fdr ; 2.5oz raw) Brooklyn: 3.1oz (0.6oz fdr; 2.5oz raw)
The drumstick recipe took some coaxing in he beginning as it was more of a paste and not hickey thigh, but they seemed to like it after they started eating it.
I made a drumstick batch, a thigh one , and a chicken breast one.
Forgot to add; on all the raw recipes , I did not add the bone in, I just thought I did. Starting on 10/13, they all have 1/2 tsp egg shell powder in them (no bone in the earlier soups) . Not sure how to go about giving them none as harry will pick out the small bone pieces in the fdr and will sometimes want to stop eating. May have to continue for awhile with the shell powder.
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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 16, 2014 8:57:52 GMT -5
10/14
Morning : 0.5oz fdr turkey each
Evening : chicken breast raw harry 3oz Brooklyn 2.5oz
Total: 3.5oz harry ; 0.5oz fdr ; 3oz raw
3oz Brooklyn ; 0.5oz fdr , 2.5oz raw
10/15
Morning 0.5oz duck FDR
Evening :
Chicken thigh raw 2.5oz harry, 2.75oz Brooklyn
Total: 3.25oz Brooklyn (0.5oz fdr , 2.75oz raw)
3.0 oz Harry (0.5fdr, 2.5oz raw)
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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 20, 2014 11:11:49 GMT -5
10/16
Morning
Raw from overnight 0.2oz each
Fdr duck 0.3oz each
Evening:
Raw drumstick soup : 3oz each
Total: 3.5oz; (0.5oz fdr , 3oz raw)
10/17
Morning : Brooklyn fdr duck 0.5oz
Harry : 0.1oz duck
Lunch : Harry 0.4 oz fdr duck
Evening : raw breast : 3oz harry , 2oz Brooklyn
Total: Brooklyn: 2.5oz (0.5oz fdr, 2oz raw)
Harry: 3.5oz (0.5oz fdr, 3oz raw)
10/18
Morning:
Turkey fdr 0.75oz harry
Afternoon:
Raw thigh soup:
3.25oz each
Evening :
Harry : 0.2 FDR turkey
Raw thigh overnight :
Brooklyn 1.5oz Harry : 1oz
Total:
Brooklyn: 4.75oz! all raw
Harry: 5.2oz! (0.95oz fdr, 4.25oz raw)
10/19
Morning
Raw thigh: 1.5oz each
Evening
Raw drumstick
1.5oz each
Total: 3oz each all raw
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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 20, 2014 12:15:56 GMT -5
After viewing hare-today and their selection, I decided to buy a bunch of stuff for them.
Chicken Hearts, 2 lbs 1 x Chicken Livers, 2 lbs 1 x Chicken Necks, 2 lbs 1 x Duck Hearts, 2 lbs 1 x Duck Livers, 2 lb 1 x Ground Chicken/Bones/Organs, Coarse Ground, 3 lb 1 x Ground Duck/Bones/Organs, 3 lb, Coarse Ground 1 x Ground Pheasant/Bone/Organs, 1 lb 1 x Ground Quail/Bones/Organs, 1 lb 1 x Ground Turkey/Bones/Organs, 3 lb, Coarse Ground 1 x Turkey Hearts, 2 lbs 1 x Turkey Livers, 2 lbs [
Forgot to add: also Cornish game hens from the local grocery store if needed.
Anyone have a menu plan for this food? And how much heart and liver should I be adding? These grinds have the organs in them, but obviously gives no guarantee that there is 'x' amount in each serving.
Besides adding potential heart /liver to each meal at x amount , am I good with only doing lived as an organ since I have the grinds, which should have spleen, pancreas, brain etc mixed into it?
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Post by Heather on Oct 20, 2014 12:50:54 GMT -5
I don't know the hare today product so will let someone else come in on that. ECE unfortunately, affects up to 6 months or more and will continue to affect for some ferrets the rest of their lives. Their ability to absorb nutrients becomes permanently compromised. Loose stools is the common side effect. Do you keep a food diary. This might help, as some ferrets also are sensitive to some proteins and if already having GI issues, this will aggravate. I noticed that you're using vaseline or petroleum jelly as a regular hair remedy...stop. Only use this as a method of last resort as part of your blockage protocol. Use an egg yolk for hair issues. The vaseline will disrupt nutrient absorption and cause green slimy stools as well. I looked at your guys photos and they're in good trim. They will lean up on the raw but shouldn't really loose any weight. Great job, good documentation ciao
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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 20, 2014 14:04:07 GMT -5
Thanks. The only journal I keep is what/how much they eatt. It does not seem to affect the level of diarrhea or the seedy poops when they do happen to have them. I figure some of the recent diarreha style poops is from the watery -paste consistency of the raw soups.
The raw soups are now starting to be more chunky and I will try to start giving chicken thigh / breast slivers asap.
I will stop on the petroleum jelly. I did not know that it would affect how nutrients are absorbed.
I am already noticing both of them getting a bit bigger and both coats, especially Harry's are getting softer.
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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 22, 2014 12:02:38 GMT -5
10/20
Morning
Fdr duck 0.75oz harry
Mid day:
Raw chicken breast paste:
Harry: 1.5oz
Brooklyn: 1.9oz
Evening: Harry had about 10 small chicken thigh slivers 1/4-1/3 of an inch in size through force feeding. He started to warm up to them toward the end before flat out refusing them.
About 0.3oz
Brooklyn had about 5-7 pieces and hated them more than harry did . About 0.2oz
Harry : 0.5oz turkey fdr
Total:
Harry : 3.05oz (1.8oz raw,; 1.25oz fdr )
Brooklyn: 2.1 oz raw
10/21
Morning
Fdr Turkey 1oz each
Evening :
Chicken thigh slivers 0.8 oz each
Total : 1.8 oz (0.8oz fdr , 1oz raw )
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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 23, 2014 10:07:28 GMT -5
10/22
Morning:
Fdr duck with some fdr turkey
0.7oz harry
0.4oz Brooklyn
Evening : chicken thigh slivers
1oz harry 0.7oz Brooklyn
Total: Harry 1.7oz (0.7 fdr, 1 raw )
Brooklyn 1.1oz (0.4 fdr, 0.7 raw)
Activity level decreased today..they slept a lot but did play when they were awake.
The hare-today order should come in today.
Forgot to add that harry likes being comforted in his mommy's shirt after eating chicken slivers...when he gets set down to eat more he gets mad and scratches at the food mat before eating more lol
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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 24, 2014 10:22:22 GMT -5
Well, my hare-today order came in (frozen solid, everything looks good and fresh) so I started them on the chicken grind and added liver and heart until u can get a meal plan set up. 10/23 Morning: Fdr duck harry 1oz Brooklyn 0.6oz Evening : 8 oz ground chicken, organ, bones from hare-today 1oz chicken liver 2oz chicken heart I separated that batch to get portioned into 5 2.2oz servings ...(1.6oz ground chicken , 0.4oz heart,0.2oz liver) Harry: 1.7oz Brooklyn: 1.5oz The rest left for overnight , looks like they did not touch it. Total: Harry: 2.7oz (1oz fdr , 1.7oz chicken grind raw) Brooklyn: 2.1oz (0.6oz fdr , 1.5oz chicken grind raw ) They hated getting force fed, especially the heart bits. Oddly enough, they seem to not mind the liver as much. They would not eat the bone pieces and would freak out if I tried to continue giving it to them. Is this how I should be giving it to them : (2nd pic is after eating )
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Post by ferretbrah on Oct 25, 2014 19:09:35 GMT -5
10/24 Morning 0.3oz fdr turkey each Mid day: 0.5oz fdr turkey each Evening : Harry: 0.9 raw chicken grind Brooklyn: 0.7 raw chicken grind Overnight: 0.3oz fdr turkey harry Total : Harry: 2oz (0.9oz raw, 1.1 fdr) Brooklyn: 1.5oz (0.7oz raw, 0.8oz fdr ) 10/25 Morning: Raw chicken grind 0.8oz each Evening: Fdr turkey / duck Harry : 0.7oz Brooklyn : 0.5oz Total: Harry: 1.5oz (0.8oz raw, 0.7oz fdr) Brooklyn: 1.3oz (0.8oz raw, 0.5oz fdr) Also here is a picture of each ones poop after a few days on the raw grind. It is very watery, seedy, and green. Harry's is the first one in the front (1 day old poop behind it) and brokklyns is the other one. Harry has a lot of seed, and Brooklyn's has some tarry-ness to it. Also harrys poop is much bigger while hers is pretty small. Should u lower her or both of their liver intake ? What can I do about the rest of their poop ? (Seedy, watery, etc) Harry's: Brooklyn:
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