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Post by shilohismygirl on May 4, 2011 6:43:47 GMT -5
So many tragedies. I can't begin to understand how that feels for all involved. I am also worried about the shelter moms and volunteers. It's hard enough to lose one. How can one lose 34 and be OK? I'd be traversing nervous breakdown territory.
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Post by miamiferret2 on May 4, 2011 7:30:33 GMT -5
That is awful. Heartbreaking.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2011 8:25:53 GMT -5
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Post by shilohismygirl on May 4, 2011 8:45:19 GMT -5
That story always gets me, and combined with the horrific tragedy at this rescue, I can't stop weeping. Poor little ones! <3
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2011 8:57:33 GMT -5
They are saved by the hearts of their rescuers. Thank goodness they exist--times like this remind me how hard a road that rescuing is.
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Post by joan on May 4, 2011 9:47:52 GMT -5
This is heartbreaking! This tragedy makes it clear just how damage is done to the immune system when they're vaccinated at 6 weeks before the immune system is mature enough to deal with it. My vet told me more than 40 years ago that vaccines which are given too early can have the opposite effect...it can immunize the animal's system against the vaccine, but will not stimulate any immunity against the disease. Not only that, but the animal will never build any stronger immunity with later vaccinations than they did the first time, He also told me that vaccine given after the animal is exposed to the disease will just about ensure that the animal will have an even worse case of the disease if they do start to develop it.
I do not give any vaccinations until the kit is at least 18 weeks, when the immune system should be fully mature, and usually wait until the kit is 5-6 months old. After reading all the above, I'm seriously rethinking giving any distemper shots at all.
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Post by Heather on May 4, 2011 13:40:42 GMT -5
Well said and well thought out. Your vet of years ago understood what a vaccine was about, now days I'm beginning to wonder if the vets coming out of college do. Revaccinating these ferrets during this crisis was a death sentence for the ones that were not showing symptoms They just don't get it. ciao
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2011 18:36:11 GMT -5
It breaks my heart...all these fuzz...I hope that the shelter staff and volunteers have the oppertunity to get counsling to help them through all of this
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2011 20:02:56 GMT -5
This whole situation breaks my heart - I know I'm coming into the conversation late but I read through all the posts. Fearless - There is SO much more information out there than what I have given you. Once you vaccinate, there is irreversible damage done - so please, before you say you'll just do these vaccinations while you research it further - do the research now! You will never regret it. My cat will forever be haunted by remnants of vaccinosis. The raw diet is the only food he can process without chronic vomiting, and even then he will still have episodes on occasion. I have had hundreds of dollars worth of blood work, fecal, urine testing, and three different opinions - no one knows what is wrong with him. I agree with Heather about vets these days not understanding vaccines. One of our veterinarians told me they only take 2 weeks of immunology in school, and admitted that he felt we seriously over-vaccinate. 2 weeks!!! His immune system will never be the same. That can also be said for my kitten who received partial vaccinations at 8 weeks (symptoms, no chronic vomiting). There is just so much info out there. For any of you experiencing doubt I just hope that you won't take my word as fanaticism, but as a pet parent grieving over the ill effects over-vaccination and any vaccination has brought forth in my pets. This is why I will not do it anymore. Not because I think I know better than anyone else. Not because I am some kind of conspiracy theorist (though it may sound like it at times). But because I love my animals and I am DONE with short life spans, ill-health, vaccinosis presenting itself in a myriad of signs. I will still rescue but it is so painful. One really good e-book is Pat McKay's Natural Immunity. I'm a member of "justsayno2vaccs" on yahoo lists, on digest - I mostly read. There are a ton of lists on vaccination full of files of studies and other research that has been done. I'll probably join a few more in time besides that one... I've lit a candle for the remaining ferrets at this shelter. May God help them.
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Post by sherik on May 4, 2011 22:13:20 GMT -5
This is just aweful. I can't even imagine the pain the rescuers are feeling.
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Post by joan on May 6, 2011 12:21:22 GMT -5
Well said and well thought out. Your vet of years ago understood what a vaccine was about, now days I'm beginning to wonder if the vets coming out of college do. Revaccinating these ferrets during this crisis was a death sentence for the ones that were not showing symptoms They just don't get it. ciao I was absolutely horrified to hear that they had vaccinated the ferrets AFTER exposure, as that would suppress the immune system and just about guarantee that those ferrets would develop distemper even if they had adequate memory cells to develop antibodies. The other scary thing to me is that the researchers who are doing titer tests to determine the duration of time that vaccination provides protection clearly don't understand that the only time a titer test is accurate re the amount of protection the ferret (or any animal) has is when it's run 2-3 weeks after the shot. After that, the titer will slowly decline but the memory cells will develop antibodies if there was adequate protection from the shot. Titer tests are meaningless otherwise. Antibodies will be developed, so that there is a high titer reading, if the animal has been exposed to the disease or merely exposed to the urine of any animal recently vaccinated as the vaccine is excreted in the urine. This can also cause an animal without adequate protection to develop the disease. Heather, I'm inclined to agree with you that many, if not most, of the more recent vets really don't understand how vaccinations work. It's nothing new, though, as I've argued with more vets than I care to remember in the past 30 years or so who insisted that the Basenjis and then ferrets needed a booster shot for distemper and rabies every year.
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Post by joclyn on May 6, 2011 16:20:11 GMT -5
The other scary thing to me is that the researchers who are doing titer tests to determine the duration of time that vaccination provides protection clearly don't understand that the only time a titer test is accurate re the amount of protection the ferret (or any animal) has is when it's run 2-3 weeks after the shot. After that, the titer will slowly decline but the memory cells will develop antibodies if there was adequate protection from the shot. Titer tests are meaningless otherwise. Antibodies will be developed, so that there is a high titer reading, if the animal has been exposed to the disease or merely exposed to the urine of any animal recently vaccinated as the vaccine is excreted in the urine. This can also cause an animal without adequate protection to develop the disease. the mongo titer study is only being done to determine how long the titers stay at a particular level as well as to track how quickly/slowly the levels change from year to year.
this study is NOT being done to determine what level provides proper protection! ruth will specifically NOT DO that kind of study - she will let someone else be 'the bad guy' and infect ferrets with this awful disease.
the whole reason this study came to be was because she (ruth) lost a ferret due to a reaction to the vaccination!
because, yes, we have been vaccinating needlessly!!
i disagree with the observation that the levels will 'slowly decline' i have all my ferrets in the study and most of them have stayed at the same titer count for years. in fact, only one has had a decrease in her level - that was last year and it was a significant decrease (1300's to 800's). the rest have stayed at the same and for the couple that the vaccinations were obviously given properly as kits, i have had to booster each year because they were below the benchmark being used in the study.
as for that benchmark...32...which is 'supposed' to provide protection - it's way off the mark for ferrets!
during the cd outbreak at the florida shelter a few years ago, she tested everyone there once it was evident that cd was present...a couple of those that didn't survive had titers in the 500's, one, in fact had been titered before the ferrets with the cd even came to the shelter (so the exposure didn't cause a higher titer due to antibodies doing their thing) and that one still contracted it and died.
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Post by joan on May 7, 2011 11:41:30 GMT -5
I am well aware of the reason Ruth began the Mongo study and what she hopes to accomplish with it. One of the reasons I have never had any interest in showing my ferrets was the requirement for yearly distemper and rabies vaccinations. Trophies and ribbons are nice, but are not worth the risk to the health of my ferrets.
How quickly a titer will decline depends on the ferret's immune system, as well as if or how often the ferret is exposed to either the disease or exposure to the urine of recently vaccinated ferrets. If the ferrets are vaccinated when the maternal immunity has dissipated completely and their immune system is fully mature, further boosters are not necessary regardless of a low titer reading as the memory cells will produce antibodies if exposed to the distemper virus.
It's quite probable that the ferrets with high titers who did not survive exposure to distemper had weakened or suppressed immune systems or other health problems, so were not able to develop antibodies quickly enough to fight off the disease. That would seem to indicate even more strongly that titers are essentially meaningless unless run 2-3 weeks after the initial vaccination.
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Post by mau on May 15, 2011 21:00:22 GMT -5
Oh gods.. I should not have clicked this thread *sitting here crying* So many sweet fuzzies.. And then that link to the Rainbow Bridge story..
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