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Post by Heather on Aug 11, 2014 22:23:48 GMT -5
Name: HF Forum Username: DaniLutka 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? Pretty much since I first started doing research. I would find articles about it online. But it was really the first true ferrants that I met, and talked too, that explained the importance of having a raw diet. 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I think a partial raw diet would work the best for my needs. My ferret often spends time with my friend's ferret and they are not doing a raw diet. 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? A more natural diet is better for any animal, humans and their fur kids a like. I want to give him the best chance possible of being healthy and happy. Since he is so young, I want to use that advantage and introduce the better choices now while I still have a good chance of doing it. 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? I am, I have no big changes/commitments coming up in the near future. 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? One hob named Loki. He just turned 3 months and is completely healthy as far as I know. I've had him for about 3 weeks now. 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup? He currently eats kibble daily and a raw egg yolk once a week. 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? Not yet. 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? I am a very patient person and don't mind working on something for a long period of time, especially when I know that it will improve the life of those in my care. 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? I own my own computer and can use it daily. 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). Updated! Hi and welcome to the mentoring program . In a little while your mentor ( Poncesmom), will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 10:42:51 GMT -5
Hi Dani I'm so pleased and excited to be working with you and Loki. We should have alot of fun and learn alot. You've already made some great progress. I'm going to reread your unofficial thread and when you are ready, we will get started. Here is a link to my bio. Since, I'm a Mentor in Training, we will have all the Mentors popping in, to check on us. That's alot of combined ferrent experience. (dance) holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/176/meet-mentor
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 19:12:39 GMT -5
We will be posting here from now on.
Loki is already off to such a great start. He has eaten a nice variety of proteins and I love that he likes beef. He's tried gizzards, that's good and he has tried some duck, and made off with a duck wing (too cute!). The amounts that he is eating are really, really good. Loki has a nice big appetite and has put on a few ounces. That's wonderful.
I'd like to start him off by, building a basic frankenprey menu and offer a variety of proteins, without worrying about the bones, yet. In the morning, we can work on reducing soupies and work on Loki eating some chunks. Once, he is eating chunks, cubes or slices, we can start introducing some bone. In the evening, we will do the same thing, only with a little less soup than the morning.
This way, you can get a feel for the frankenprey menu and get Loki use to the routine of his weekly menu. If we stick to the same menu, when we start adding bone in meats, he will already be comfortable with the protein and ready to munch on some bones.
We aren't in any hurry, and we will take it at Loki's pace.
While we are on soupies, please post at least every two days. You can certainly post as much as you like. As you know, I'm online alot.
I would love to see a picture of Loki, taken from above him and one with you holding him, so he dangles. I already know that he's not too thin, but let's follow the standard process.
We will want to weigh him weekly.
When you're ready to build a menu, let me know and I can build the basic menu for you (unless you already know how to do this). Then you can fill in the proteins and organs based on what you have and how you want your schedule set up. For example, I like to space the organs out and do their big organ meal on Sunday, which makes their Liver plus another organ meal on Wednesday.
So far, so good? Any questions?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 21:13:58 GMT -5
(dance) I am beyond excited right now. While I would have been happy with any of the mentors, because they are all wonderful, I was a little extra happy to see it was you that I was paired with. I read through your post and the link to your profile. Do you want to know a little more about myself? While I had originally wanted to do a partly raw diet, Loki has made it abundantly clear how much he does not want to eat kibble (at least the majority of the time.) So I have actually been leaning towards doing a frankenprey diet. I know most of the basics, but I do want some help learning how to balance it out. I know it's something like 7-9 bone in meals and then 1 organ meal like hearts and another with an alternative organ like liver in it. Loki's appetite has both amazed me and worried me at the same time. lol Worried mostly on the days when he turns his nose up and doesn't eat as much or seemly at all. It's undeniable how much his overall health has improved on the more natural diet. I am so glad that I started him on the beef liver. I already weigh Loki once a week, on Friday mornings before I go to work, and before he gets his breakfast. Do you want me to continue weighing him on that day? I am online constantly, especially since I have the taptalk on my phone now. So I have no problem checking in often. I will post the pictures for you in the morning, so we have them there. Thank you again for helping us through this process. Loki means the world to me and I just want to do what's best for him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 10:26:52 GMT -5
Good Morning Do you want to know a little more about myself?I already know that your a good ferrent, sweet and smart. Without prying too much, what kind of hours do you keep at work. It just helps understand your schedule for feeding. Loki's appetite has both amazed me and worried me at the same time. lo
Loki has a good appetite. Just like us, some days they want to eat more than others. He will eat more for awhile, to make up for what he didn't get on kibble. Then he'll slow down some. Winter will bring about an increase in his appetite and Spring will slow him down.
I already weigh Loki once a week, on Friday mornings before I go to work,
Okay, Friday's will be the day, you weigh him and post his weight.
What do you have in your freezer and do you need to do a shopping trip? I'm going to build the outline of a basic frankenprey diet and you can fill in the proteins, and we'll see how it looks. Your weekly menu will look like this. Let's stick to the same menu for a few weeks and as I said earlier, we will add the bones later, Right now, we're working on getting him familiar with his menu. If you want to add some bones, that's fine. What I mean by that is, let's say on chicken wing day. You could cut off the tips of the chicken wing and leave them on the plate and see if he tries to crunch them. Today is Wednesday, so I'll start the menu on Friday: Friday:
a.m. Bone In Suggestions: chicken wings. mostly chicken, but leave the wing tips on the plate P.m. muscle meat chicken gizzards
Saturday
a.m. Bone In cornish game hen. mostly meat and again, leave the wing tips on the plate. p.m. muscle meat turkey. you can use ground turkey or turkey slices, cubes or chucks
Sunday
a.m. Organ Day: Liver plus another organ Suggestions: mine love brains and kidney p.m. Bone In Quail. You can chop this up, and leave the bones in and see how he does. Also, since Loki loves beef liver, this will Monday get his beef into the menu.
a.m. Bone In Suggestions: chicken wings/cornish game hen or quail P.m. Bone In or you could try some rabbit
Tuesday
a.m. muscle meats: Hearts p.m. Bone In Until he is eating bones, here you could try some chicken duck gizzards Wednesday
a.m. Muscle meat Suggestions: ground pork with an egg, whipped and poured and poured over it.
Bone In Cornish game hen Thursday
a.m. Organ Day Liver plus another organ plus half a meal of hearts
p.m. Bone In Suggestions: duck
A menu like this, will give you the minimum of three proteins, 8 meals of "bone in", 4 meals of muscle meat and your two organ meals and one meal of hearts (hearts are a muscle meat) You can rearrange it, any way you want. I would suggest you follow an organ meal with a bone in meal. Since we don't expect Loki to eat bone yet, use some powdered eggshell and sprinkle it over the meals that would be Bone In. Since he is still working on eating bigger pieces, you will use some of the meat and puree it. Add a 1/2 tsp of eggshell and some warm water. The slice the meats tiny (we'll work our way up) and pour a little of the soup, over the meat pieces. Can you find Quail? Do you have an Asian market nearby? Here is a picture of Quail and how it looks, when its chopped really fine: It starts out like this"
Then you can crush it, into tiny pieces: I think Quail will be a good trial, to see if Loki will take to the tiny bones. If not, we can just work on the Quail meat for awhile: Here is the Quail crushed:
Once you build your menu and post it, it might help to have it posted somewhere. I did this, with mine:
Okay, that's alot for now. Along the way, we'll talk about things like Taurine, Choline, calcium etc.. And as I said before, we'll stick to this first menu for a few weeks and just get him use to the new foods and work on increasing the sizes of meat, that he will eat. Then we'll intro bone. Sound good? Any questions. (dance)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 23:12:12 GMT -5
Good evening, sorry about being tardy to responding again. In my excitement to finally having a mentor, I forgot that I had a day trip planned with my mom today. Awww thank you so much. I do try my best. My normal work hours are Monday-Friday 7am-3pm. Once in a while its different, but not normally. I have been feeding Loki at about 6:40 am before I go to work in the morning, and after he has run around for about 40 minutes. I feed him again later in the evening, usually around 9:30pm. I hope that is alright. I never thought about his appetite being like our own. I always assumed it would be the same every day. While his appetite has been pretty stable, I am almost positive his coat is in the middle of a change. He seems so much more..."whiter" than before. Alright, this Friday I will post his weigh in update. Right now the only thing meat wise I have in the freezer are his portioned soupie mixes. I think I have 2 duck containers, 4 beef, 4 turkey, and 4 chicken. Each container is 4 oz each. I usually give him one in the morning and one in the evening. Which would make up his 8oz. I have to go grocery shopping for myself tomorrow, so I can definitely pick some up then. As far as quail goes, I'm not sure. I do have a few Asian/ethnic stores near me (which is where I got the duck at), but the ones closest do now have a wide variety. (I found quail eggs at the one with the frozen duck.) There are a few others that I can check out though and hopefully find the other proteins. On a side note, my friends raise sheep and they have a specific butcher they go to. They said I could have some the next time they go. On a side note, the soupie he has been eating recently has been thicker/chunkier than it was before and he seems to have enjoying it. I also put his raw egg yolk on the soupie mix today and he loved it.!v Hopefully I will be able to respond more promptly tomorrow. I'm usually on all the time. Today was just extra busy. I do have one question though. When I'm following this new menu, will I just be adding the things into his soupie? Or will he not be getting the soupie anymore?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 10:08:14 GMT -5
Here are the pictures you needed. I needed assistance to get the second picture because he was too long to get the shot myself!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 10:50:18 GMT -5
Good Morning. (dance) Loki is just beautiful. He looks nice and healthy and has a good weight on him. We ask you to dangle them and then we look for a "waistline". A waistline will mean that they are too thin. They should be lean and long and straight up and down. (Before you graduate, there is a test, hint.hint). When I'm following this new menu, will I just be adding the things into his soupie? Or will he not be getting the soupie anymore?
You won't be adding any organs to the soup. We will do the organs on organ days. Liver can build up in their systems, so its limited to two days a week. Loki can't overdose on hearts, but they are a muscle meat and he will get them on his heart day and then a half serving on one of his organ days. That's enough for his nutritional needs. As far as quail goes, I'm not sure.
They are usually easily found in Asian markets, in the freezer section. They come in a package of six for about nine dollars. So, that's six meals or cut in half, 12. The bones are small and make for a good intro to bone. I am almost positive his coat is in the middle of a change
He probably is getting ready for his winter coat. Watch his mask. Loki looks alot like my Roamy and during the winter, Roamy's mask will "slip" to a V shape. In the Springtime, he wears a full bandit mask. You will see more white on his coat, during the winter. Their undercoat is almost all white and that's where the thicker fur comes from. Their guard hairs are on top and give them their color and pattern. They look like their color has changed because the undercoat is easier to see, in the winter. My Juliet has her seasons backward and is wearing a nice soft full winter coat and she's bulked up. the only thing meat wise I have in the freezer are his portioned soupie mixes.
If you don't mind the extra expense, you can save the soupie mixes in the freezer. You have beef, turkey and chicken. If you want to use them, then on chicken day, put the chicken chunks/slices or cubes on the plate and add a little of the soup over the top. We want Loki eating bigger pieces and a little bit of the soup will make him think he is getting his soup. The soup has organ in it, but a little bit won't throw his menu off, too much and we'll probably move quickly past the soupie stage anyway. The same will go for beef and turkey day. Then you can save the rest of the soupies. It s nice to have soupie, if he doesn't feel well. I also put his raw egg yolk on the soupie mix today and he loved it.!v
I'm very happy that Loki likes egg. He should have one egg a week. It's a great hairball remedy. I use my egg meal for pouring over ground beef. Mine really don't care for beef, but will eat it, if there is egg over it.
Your feeding schedule sounds fine. Do you leave anything in his cage for him, overnight? That would be a great time to put a chicken wing in there. Chop it once lengthwise and twice across the width. See if he munches on it at night.
Okay, talk to you soon.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 15:13:37 GMT -5
Good afternoon! I just saw this message when I was checking my menu. I will respond to that as soon as I get home. I wanted to let you know I found a whole beef heart and some pig riblets. I also picked up chicken wings, more beef liver, and ground turkey
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 17:40:40 GMT -5
Thank you so much! It's good to hear that he has a good weight on him and looks healthy. I thought he was, but it's nice to know for sure. (LOL I will make sure to take lots of notes.) That makes sense about the extra liver and heart. I don't want to give him too much liver and make him sick. I'll keep looking for the quail and hopefully I can find some. I can't wait to see what he looks like through the different seasons. I heard about how some ferrets have their seasons backwards since breeders work through out the year. As I mentioned I picked up some of the things you mentioned for the menu. I can pick up some other things so I can work on getting him chunks. I try to give him an egg yolk a week and he usually devours it. The only thing Loki doesn't really like is pork. But I want to try it again since he didn't really like the duck at first and now he devours it. He usually eats all of his food right away. I didn't know that I should leave something for him. You mentioned that I should cut the wing tips off? Should I give him one on top of what you listed as his dinner? Thanks again!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2014 20:51:40 GMT -5
Good Evening We went into Nashville today, had a little lunch and did some ferret shopping. I picked up some quail, found some pork spleen (yeah!) and a few other things. I also bought some freezer bins. I love organizing and am really happy, that I will have more space in my freezer. You mentioned that I should cut the wing tips off? Should I give him one on top of what you listed as his dinner?
The wing tips are nice and easy for chewing on. A great beginner bone, so do try a wing tip with his dinner and see if he chomps on it. If he does, then we can start working on bone. (When I say wing tip, I mean the whole wing tip, just not the drummette part.) If you leave a wing in his cage overnight, (give it a few slices, like I mentioned) then in addition to giving him a night time snack, it's good stimulation and enrichment. If Loki moves along as fast as I think he will, he will probably eat a little more than normal for awhile. They tend to try to make up for what they weren't getting on kibble. His poops will get smaller, because more of his food is digested and used. You said that he usually eats all of his food. Then give him some more. You will know that he's full, if he tries to stash some food. Remind me, are you feeding him in his cage? Its harder to stash, but if he's eating (say, in the kitchen) and you're sitting with him, then he will run off with a piece or two and that's your cue, that he is finished. The only thing Loki doesn't really like is porkWhen there was a food that mine didn't like, I would feed it for a few days in a row. Usually, once it became familiar, they decide they like it. Except for beef, none of mine are big fans of beef. Except once, when we had a nice big tenderloin. We were cutting it into filets, tornadoes, chateaubriand and tips. We gave then some and they just loved it. Of course, with the costs of a tenderloin, that's not going to be part of their weekly menu or ours. (giggle) Well, I'm off to get into bed and read. I'll check in again, tomorrow. Give Loki a big hug from me and tell him, he's a real sweetheart. (dance)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 11:00:02 GMT -5
1. Ferret's name: Loki
2. Ferret's weight: 47 ounces (+0 ounces since the last weigh in on 8/8. He was 39-40 ounces when I began on 7/18)
3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal: Other than the 2 days of kibble he has eaten 8oz of raw soupie. We're starting the Frankenprey menu today. He got his first chicken wing before I went to work. My mom is at my house today and she knows to give him more if he finishes it.
4. Stools on various proteins: Overall normal for being on a raw diet, though sometimes they are dark and others they are light in color.
5. Activity levels: Extremely active still. He had a nice trip to the park yesterday.
6. Weekly menu: I'm going to try to find some new proteins soon.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 11:13:05 GMT -5
Good afternoon! That is so cool about your trip to Nashville. I am thinking about taking a trip to Toronto to go to China town. I just don't know if I can cross the boarder with meat. I need a deep freezer because mine is too small. His poop has been pretty small for a while. I think he has been eating raw for almost a month. Which seems crazy in a way. I'm so glad he has liked it so far. That's a good idea about giving him the pork more. I will pick up some more soon. I feed him in his cage, mostly because I'm renting and I don't want to replace the carpet. I can't feed him in the kitchen because he is obsessed with crawling under the stove. Thank you again, everyone I know loves Loki. He really is a sweetie. I'm hoping to get him a tube from Home Depo to play in and more park trips this weekend!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 11:35:33 GMT -5
Good Morning You could PM Sherry or Heather. They will know the rules for crossing the border. Also katt, just made the trip over the border, she will also know. I bought 4 black plastic drainage tubes from Ace. Forty feet of tunnels (I know your space is limited), cost me around $42. After all this time, they still love to play in them. www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=29173266&cp=2568443.2568452.2631237.2631269.1260872The ones with the holes in them are more expensive. You can always slide them under your bed, if someone comes over. How did Loki do with his breakfast? Did you try any wing tips? Its almost the weekend. I hope that you have some fun plans. I just realized, I don't know if you're married or have a significant other or any skin kids. (dance)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2014 14:04:02 GMT -5
Alright, thanks!
My mom reported that he did really well with his new breakfast. I can't wait to see it for myself. My mom is in town for a little holiday. I don't know what we are doing tomorrow. All I want to do is sleep and go to the park with Loki. Lol How about you? Anything fun planned. As for further family I am currently single and I have no skin kids. I want some someday but not right now.
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