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Post by Heather on Apr 18, 2011 21:48:55 GMT -5
Name: Nicole Shaffer HF Forum Username:Selantra
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? I have known about natural diets for quite some time, while living in my parents house a couple years back we made the decision to switch our lovable canine to an all raw diet and never looked back. Also as a Pre-vet Major, I have always been curious as to our transition to processed kibble instead of what nature intended. If processed food is not good for humans, why would it be good for animals?
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I would like to put my ferrets on an all natural diet. I would prefer to feed whole prey, without a preference to either live or frozen. I am not a squeamish individual and have heard that live prey can make for an easier transition. My only limitations are that I live in an apartment and they are not too fond of me keeping a plethora of mice in my apartment.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? There are quite a few reasons, one being that I do not believe processed food is healthy for any creature and I strive to take care of not only myself but my animals as well. Nature is the best prototype for a diet, with fresh, wholesome, and organic being best for all creatures. Also, having lived in Europe, I was surprised at the horrifically high rate for diseases such as insulonoma and Adrenal disease in the states. Having researched this, many veterinarians suggest that the stress of having to digest carbohydrates causes such a high rate of these diseases. I want only what is best for my fuzzies.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? Diets are never an overnight thing for humans too, but yes!
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? I will be receiving my fuzzies Friday, but the person who currently owns them is a good friend so this is the info I have:( exact weight and size to come)
Zeke- Three- Male-No known Health problems- Healthy weight sunny-two-male- No known Health problems/Feared as a future potential Adrenal/Insulonoma due to inability to gain weight- Underweight Tate-two-Male- No known Problems-Healthy Weight Otis-under two-Male- No known Problems/ Difficulty gaining weight/ Feared as a future potential adrenal/insulonoma kid due to difficult weight gain-underweight Beethova- Year- Female- Healthy- Slightly underweight but naturally tiny
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Currently fed A brand of kitten food, a homemade version of dook-soup with marshmallows as treats
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?No
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? i am not squeamish. So I am not afraid to do what is necessary even if it isnt pretty.. I know this is a bit early to be posting,but I would like to be a bit prepared before they arrive!
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? 7 days a week
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
I will as soon as I can!! Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Hurricanekatt) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by katt on Apr 19, 2011 0:25:40 GMT -5
Hi! Here's just a little about me... Name: Katt HF Screen Name: HurricaneKatt Location: Anchorage, Alaska About Me: My favorite hobby is... studying. Just kidding. I like to do different types of art including drawing and painting. I recently started making dream catchers too. I enjoy horseback riding, playing with my critters, and enjoying time with my boyfriend. And the critters of course! I am a premed student in Alaska graduating May 1(weew! SO close! lol) with a Biology degree. I’ll be taking a year off to enjoy myself, work on my application, and visit Africa before applying for Medical School in the next round. I became a mentor because...I really like helping people (hence the whole wanting to be a doctor thing ) and animals. I am a strong supporter of a natural diet and probably bore most people that I meet to death ranting about raw diet and why it is the best way to go…this way I can rant to someone who actually cares! About My Ferrets: Koda – male, Real Canadian, just over a year old (he was about 8 weeks old when I bought him in December 2009), Sable. I gave him raw the second he came home and neither of us has ever looked back. He is a real trouble maker and is pretty well known around the forums as such. He is my first, and so far only, ferret and though I have not had him long he has forced me to learn and learn FAST! He has managed to eat several rubber objects (had to have surgery!), and is constantly finding new trouble to get into. Loves digging the carpet up, has a very serious oral fixation (if his mouth can stretch wide enough for his teeth to touch it – he will chew it), will rearrange the room to reach things, has learned how to levitate, and is an all around little monster. He is also very strongly bonded to my boyfriend and I, and can be a huge love bug. When the endless energy is finally burned off, he will curl up in our laps, give us kisses, and fall asleep. As you can tell, I have this problem where I can’t stop talking about him or taking pictures of him… We recently discovered that he has IBD and I am actually working with Mustelidmusk on adjusting his diet to keep his belly aches under control. Right now it is still hit and miss. Kneai: I brought Kenai home towards the end of November. He is also eating 100% raw diet, whole prey, franken prey, meaty bones you name it! He was a tiny little bag of bones when I brought him home, but he eats like a pig and grows like a weed! He is now huge and rolly-polly! definitely a little porker - he can barely make it out of his rice box because he is so bottom heavy. lmao He is a silver mitt/black roan mitt. haha He loves, LOVES toys and is a loveable, goofy little guy and has been helping to keep Koda company and burn off each others energy! He's definitely a little spaz - I though Koda was until I got Kenai! He's a bit of a simpelton, but we love him just the same. About My Natural Feeding Experience: I've been feeding raw since December 2009 when I brought Koda home. Thanks to this forum, I was ready for a fuzzball to come home with my freezer stocked with meats! I gave him a raw chicken wing his first night home and that was the end of that! He is fed frankenprey, f/t roents, and live prey. Unfortunately, his diet is somewhat restricted because of his IBD, but we've finally got a bit of variety back in. I have been reading and learning since before I brought Koda home and learned a lot from the people here on the forum. I am always on the forum, and various websites trying to learn more about ferrets in general, and especially raw diet. My boys are healthy, energetic, have super soft fur, and smell so good that people regularly comment, asking me what perfume or spray I sprayed them (esp Koda) with! I love telling them: Thanks to a raw diet - he just smells that good naturally! When Kenai first came home he had been eating Marshall's kibble and his poop smelled...awful doesn't even come close to describing it! Now he smells much better and his scraggly coat has been replaced by a luxurious pile of fur. Type of Mentor: In Training! I feed frankenprey, raw meats, bone-in meats, ground meats, frozen/thawed rodents, live prey, and recently added (for treats and supplemental) freeze dried raw. I have never fed kibble so I can’t help a ton there on picking a good kibble… but hopefully we can get rid of it entirely anyways. My Specialty: Trouble makers! Especially only ferrets, and kits. I am excited to work with such a big business and with a variety of ferrets.
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Post by katt on Apr 19, 2011 0:34:49 GMT -5
Let's start with a run down of your feeding schedule. I understand that you have not brought the ferrets home yet? If you can find out what is in the Dook Soup. Also, you will want to start stocking up on the basics: canned pumpkin (NOT premade pie filling, only ingredients should be pumpkin and water, NO sugar or anything else), boneless skinless chicken breasts. If you can't find any pumpkin, squash baby food will work, or sweet potatoes and meat baby food if you can't find either of those. Do you have a good blender? You will need it for making soupies. And as a heads up - I am sure that you know this already - but the number one thing is the marshmallow treats must stop. Immediately. That's a guaranteed route to insulinoma with all of the sugar in them. Are they currently free fed (food access 24/7)?
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Post by selantra on Apr 19, 2011 17:02:09 GMT -5
Here we go! Nice to meet you Hurricanekatt!
Okay, so the low down. I do not have the fuzzbutts yet, they will come in tomorrow night. My last visit over I was suppose to bring them home, but due to an unexpected work call I was unable to bring them home. I would love to start stocking up on all the good stuff.
I do not have a blender but I will make it my mission to go get one tonight.
As for the Dook soup, I do not have the full lit of ingredients, but I know it is a Pedialyte base with beef and chicken baby food added to the mixture. I will have the full ingredient list tomorrow for you. I do know that it will have to be edited, the sugar content is extremely high.
I know the marshmallows have to stop, it will just be convincing them that they have to stop. Last time I went to visit, I had three ferrets sprawled out dejected on the floor because the lucky charm box had disappeared, but I don't mind a little tough love!
They are currently free fed with a cat food. I wish I was bettering at remembering specifics but I believe was meow mix.I would love to get them off of this as soon as possible.
So my shopping list for tonight: A good blender Chicken Breasts and canned pumpkin ( all natural)
How much should I be feeding each critter? I am curious as to how many chicken breasts I should bring home.
A slight snag in the road however, it looks like Sunni might have an ulcer. I won't know for sure until I get him and schedule an appointment but I don't know how that will effect his portion of the diet for right now.
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Post by katt on Apr 19, 2011 17:55:15 GMT -5
I'd get a big pack of them. They will probably be eating chicken breasts in some form or another for a bit. You can freeze them to keep them fresh of course. The ulcer should not effect his portion size, but if it's bothering him he might not feel like eating as much if it hurts his belly. I've had some experience with ulcers with Koda as he has IBD, so we can work with that.
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Post by katt on Apr 19, 2011 18:12:09 GMT -5
I do not have a blender but I will make it my mission to go get one tonight.I love my Magic Bullet blender. It works perfectly. As for the Dook soup, I do not have the full lit of ingredients, but I know it is a Pedialyte base with beef and chicken baby food added to the mixture. I will have the full ingredient list tomorrow for you. I do know that it will have to be edited, the sugar content is extremely high.Yikes! Pedialyte is for sick babies only. Go ahead and get some chicken baby food while you are getting supplies. We may not need it but better to have it if we do. And if we don't you can always save it as it has a long shelf life and makes a great treat, or is amazing for sick babies if you ever have need. I know the marshmallows have to stop, it will just be convincing them that they have to stop. Last time I went to visit, I had three ferrets sprawled out dejected on the floor because the lucky charm box had disappeared, but I don't mind a little tough love!Yup, tough love it must be! They will live. Just don't look into their deep, hyptnotizing little eyes! ;D They are currently free fed with a cat food. I wish I was bettering at remembering specifics but I believe was meow mix.I would love to get them off of this as soon as possible.No worries, we should have them off of that soon enough. If they give us a lot of trouble and you are concerned about it, we can look at getting a better kibble in there while we work on the raw too. I really don't think we will need to though. So my shopping list for tonight: A good blender Chicken Breasts and canned pumpkin ( all natural)
And chicken baby food! Also, do you have any FerreTone or FerretVite? If not no worries. Salmon Oil, Fish Oil, or even Olive oil are better alternatives. But one of the above is good to have on hand as an enticement for stubborn babies. The oils I listed, especially Salmon oil, are great for soft coats and fur-ball season (now lol) as well. How much should I be feeding each critter? I am curious as to how many chicken breasts I should bring home.I'd go ahead and just get a few pounds. Like 1-2 pounds of boneless, skinless chicken breast should do to start off with. The great thing is, you will either use it all during the switching process and need more. OR if they take to it quickly, then you can continue to feed the chicken as we work in other meats. When initially starting you can tend to go through a lot of chicken per ferret. A slight snag in the road however, it looks like Sunni might have an ulcer. I won't know for sure until I get him and schedule an appointment but I don't know how that will effect his portion of the diet for right now.Just keep a close eye on his pooping and eating habits. The raw should HELP his belly as kibble is hard, rough, and abrasive. The raw soupies and chicken will slide right through and be a relief to his poor belly. IBD is a possibility, as is hair balls, ulcers from stress (impending home change - they sense these things - and shedding season are both stressful as well as goodness knows what else. Something as silly as a new toy can set some ferrets off lmao). I have worked with ulcers before unfortunately. Definitely talk to the vet, see what they say and follow through with any treatment. If the issue pops up again later we can take a look at some holistic treatments, as well as fiddling with diet (food allergies could be playing a role) if we need to. I would suggest starting a food and poop journal. You are going to see some funky poops for some time during the switch as their GI tracts get used to the new diet. Tracking what foods lead to what poops, and who is bothered by what, etc can be very helpful to have on hand if some issue comes up. Especially with so many ferrets. If you can get a good look at each individual's poop take note of what it looks like, what they ate, etc. Another thing to expect during the switch, especially this time of year when they are losing their winter weight already anyways, is weight loss. This is normal. If they become lethargic, and begin to look Way too skinny, or have other issues, then it becomes a concern of course. But typically they will lose weight when they change to raw. They will then start to put on nice lean muscle. They might have a lot of extra energy as well, esp with Spring time. And they will most likely eat a lot more than usual when they start eating the raw regularly as their bodies are trying to catch up, and compensate for the time they were on kibble.
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Post by katt on Apr 20, 2011 20:55:30 GMT -5
Any updates or questions?
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Post by selantra on Apr 21, 2011 17:25:14 GMT -5
Sorry, okay! Everyone is home! I need to get pictures but I will put that second on the list. Everyone seems to be fine, although Sonni and Otis scare me with how little they are. Racheal did tell me he was having some tummy issues this morning, but he seems alright for now. A little stressed but everything is alright.
Should I try feeding them soup tonight or should I wait a day or two.
As for the losing weight, will Sunni and Otis be alright? I thought they were heavier but it seems they have lost even more weight. I would put them both at no more than a pound. Will they too lose weight at the beginning of the switch?
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Post by selantra on Apr 21, 2011 22:33:07 GMT -5
Small victory? I decided to give it a try so I put about 4 ounces of water and about two ounces of chicken in the processor and gave it a whirl. It turned in a soup that had little chunkies in it but nothing too bad. Well here is how it went.
Sonny and Otis were both reluctant at first but after a quick swipe across the gums, they were both licking the concoction off my fingers willingly.
Zeke surprisingly one of the older ferrets was too reluctant at first but a quick swipe on the gums and a hew histrionic wiggles later he was licking the stuff off my fingers like it was his last meal on earth.
Tate and Beethova were the ones who surprised me however. Being the youngest I figured they would be the easiest, but both struggled like the devil to get away from that finger and even with a couple swipes they didn't seem too thoroughly impressed.
I thought I would get brave however and put a little soup on a small plate, but it seemed none of them were interested with the soup on the plate but would readily lick it off my fingers.
So I think tonight went well...
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Post by katt on Apr 21, 2011 23:10:24 GMT -5
Yay good news! I would go ahead and start with the soupies. Or rather, keep starting. Keep offering each of them soup from your fingers, then gradually lower your finger to a spoon until they will eat it out of a spoon. Then you do the same thing with a dish, lowering the spoon to the dish until they will eat from the dish. With the reluctant ones keep using scruff and stuff to get them to continue tasting it. Eventually they will learn to like it! That is interesting that the older and younger ones seem so reversed. Ferrets like to keep you on your toes I guess though. I think that Sonny (or Sunni? lol) and Otis will be fine. Just keep an eye out for lethargy and make sure that they are eating. It helps that they know you, but it will still be stressful once they realize they have moved homes. This can hit them hard so watch out for stress poops. You will find that on raw their poops are different too, especially in the beginning as they adjust to the new diet. If they will eat it so eagerly it could just be a sign of how much they need it. They might lose a little weight in the beginning, but should put even more back on as we go. Just keep a close eye on them. If anything, getting some real protein in them will be really good for them. For now keep a little kibble available to make sure they are still eating. See how they all like kibble with soup gravy. Make the soup just like you made it before (if they will not eat it use more water to make it thinner) and pour it over the kibble like gravy. You can even mix a small amount of kibble into the soup too so it tastes more like kibble at first. Then we gradually take it out of course.
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Post by katt on Apr 23, 2011 13:10:48 GMT -5
Any updates? Luck with soupies yet? How are they all doing with the home change? It might take a few weeks for them to settle in fully. I forgot to tell you, if you can find some Get a little bit of Rescue Remedy and put a few drops in their water (5-10 drops in the water dish) and dab a little on their ears. This should help keep their stress down a little to help them settle in. It really can help make the transition smoother.
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Post by selantra on Apr 23, 2011 14:06:47 GMT -5
Well still no luck with Beethova, but last night Sonny and Tate were both starting to lick it off my fingers. Otis is will lick it off my finger, but still will not take it on a spoon or plate. I tried hovering my finger right about plate and letting them lick it. Zeke caught on and will now lick it off the plate but he refuses to eat any little chunks that might have remained.
They seem to be doing much better today. The first night was extremely difficult. They were all stressed, dejected, and tearing the cage apart. Yesterday we let them out for a while and they seemed to get better. Today was a great improvement! During play time everyone was war dancing and dooking around, they are still a little leery of us in the fact that they still wonder where the other humans are. We even got a little bit of cuddling in today.
I have RR and I have been using it. I have noticed a subtle difference, but I can tell they are happier. That is all my news for now, but I am making a new batch of soup and going to try it again right now, so I should update tonight. *crosses fingers** Here is to luck!
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Post by katt on Apr 23, 2011 22:37:31 GMT -5
Try taking the kibble away a few (about 4ish) hours before giving them soup. Nothing like hunger to add a little motivation. Take the kibble away every night and offer them soupies. Also, have you tried putting the soup over their kibble like gravy yet? They might take to it better that way. You can also crumble a little kibble onto the soup surface to coax/trick them into eating it.
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Post by selantra on Apr 24, 2011 0:17:59 GMT -5
Well, I took the kibble away this morning. I put the gravy over the food but everyone refused to eat it. So I threw it out and made a big batch of soup. I divided it into containers and froze most of it, but I put some in their bowl. I noticed about mid day that no one was touching it, so I got a small plate and put a decent sized dollop on there. I left and returned about 30 minutes later and it was gone, but there was still some in their bowl. So I put a little more on the plate and it too disappeared but I haven't caught which one it was.
I decided to use a syringe today to give everyone a bigger taste of the chicken, I know have everyone curious and ready to lick it off my fingers, but the only one I know who is actively eating it is Zeke.
I have decided to take the kibble away semi-permanently, currently, I am pulling Sonny out and having to feed him individually with a syringe. He was doing better but he seems reluctant to eat on his own. He can keep it down and does just fine, but he won't eat on his own. Everyone else has actively tasted and licks it off my finger so I know they will figure out they are the same product. But every couple hours, I rouse everyone up and bring them near it and stick my finger into it. Let them get a taste and figure out where it is.
Do you think that will be alright?
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Post by katt on Apr 24, 2011 0:32:32 GMT -5
That sounds ok as long as you are sure everyone is eating something. Which it sounds like you have covered. Keep an eye out for extreme weight loss. Also, try mixing a little pumpkin into the soup if you are not already. It will help firm up their poops plus they usually like the taste.
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