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Post by gfountain on Dec 5, 2014 15:20:57 GMT -5
LOL, I refreshed the page to see if there were any other replies before I posted that mini-book, but I failed to see that the thread had gone on to page 6. Now I see that you've got a menu! Like Stef said, that chicken leg might be problematic. Same thing with thighs, you will probably need to smash them. Chicken backs are good for bone-in around here. The ones I get have a LOT of meat left on them, but if they're stripped bare, just serve them with some muscle meat.
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Post by Heather on Dec 5, 2014 22:14:23 GMT -5
I feed backs, just smack them with the Ulu knife ciao
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 23:12:10 GMT -5
I posted on the Facebook page - Zoey the up a little today. She was chewing the CGH (with bones) and I saw she had a big piece, so I pulled the other container or of the fridge to cut those pieces smaller when I heard her start gagging. She threw up a decent size bone piece with a couple other little bones (I posted a picture on fb). I did get some feedback but incase anyone else had something to add? I think it's just I'm imprinted with what should happen to kibble fed ferrets so everything different makes me nervous. She slept a bit after she threw up then had a drink of water and some CGH meat only (I was scared so I pulled all the bones from the cage and just left the meat). Oh, she had a good poop too. I hope she starts chewing smaller pieces from now on! Today was gizzard meal day I cut them into slivers, squares, and circle pieces...Pepper was the only one who attempted to chew...Zekrom only licked them (I drizzled warm water on the pieces). I left the plate in the cage in hopes they will get hungry enough. I *might* make soup tomorrow. ..... it makes me worry when I don't see everyone eating - or not eating much.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 15:49:09 GMT -5
Poor little Zoey, that must have frightened both of you. You're not alone, everyone is nervous about bone in the beginning.
Gizzard is just like any new protein. They have to learn that it's really food. Try offering a snack of gizzards for the next few days. Play with a couple of different ways to offer it. Usually once they actually eat a bit or two, then they will be fine.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2014 20:14:29 GMT -5
I'll post more tomorrow when I'm at a computer. Had a great time at the oriental market. I caved and made 4 batches of soup but did 4oz blended meat plus 4 oz skivers/chunks. Wouldn't you know, as I was chopping and blending - Zekrom and Zoey were eating the gizzards (face palm). But what was cool....I was slicing up chicken hearts and I offered a whole heart to Elvyra-she ate about 2/3 from my hand! Then I offered 1 to Pepper and she licked and try to chew it. .. but we didn't get to far. Pepper was having liquid yellow poops (twice) but I gave whole chicken eggs today. Update more tomorrow!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2014 9:29:53 GMT -5
Poor little Zoey, that must have frightened both of you. You're not alone, everyone is nervous about bone in the beginning. Gizzard is just like any new protein. They have to learn that it's really food. Try offering a snack of gizzards for the next few days. Play with a couple of different ways to offer it. Usually once they actually eat a bit or two, then they will be fine. Thank you and yes-her little face was so sad afterwards; it broke my heart! She has had great poops since, so I do feel relieved! I think I will put some gizzards in *everything* they eat so they really get used to them
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2014 10:57:15 GMT -5
I think, overall, we had a good weekend! My hubby had some guys over for football yesterday, so I'll have to get everyone's weights tonight. I gave them some ground beef with an egg mixed-I saw Elvyra licking away! I saw an almost empty dish when Zekrom crawled into a hammock nearby! And I think Reshiram had a taste Zoey is doing well since the throw up incident. Her poops are great! Brown, moist, and between an inch to an inch 1/2. I caught her eating the gizzard slices. I offered a plate of heart pieces too...it doesn't look like anyone touched them as of this morning. Zekrom was also caught eating the gizzard slices. I made soup and he ate a bunch, took a nap, and then ate some more! His poop has been good all weekend! Urine flow and amount is good and no prolapse! (sigh) I will, as usual, check out his bathroom habits tonight. I made the soup with chicken thigh (the same chicken, brand and store, that I usually get it at) so I'm anxious to see if it's the chicken that gave him the light poops? I'm going to offer CGH possibley Wednesday or Thursday to see if that's the cause? Oh! I'm not sure if it's his lupron shot he got Monday (December first) or if he's getting his "winter on!"-but he is so unbelievible(sp?) soft! Like, I can't describe it-not like a cotton ball, softer than that! And so plush! Ah, I love it! (and him! he's my baby boy!) Pepper had straight liquid poop (yellow) twice yesterday I gave eggs yesterday so I think she was not eating the CGH meat, gizzards, or heart-only ate the egg. I did offer her a whole heart from my hand and she mainly licked it!(which I thought was great!) Then she did try taking some bites (didn't really take any though) and shook it a few times (with was really cool to see!). Once I made the soup, I had a separate dish for her. I weighed 2 oz-she ate almost the whole thing in one sitting (I had her on my lap too). I'm not sure why she's not eating on her own (more in the way of eating what's available-not just on my lap because I did that so I could weight the dish when she was done/no one else would eat out of the dish too). I really need to weigh her tonight because she looks like she lost weight-unless she lost 'fat' and is gaining muscle? She looks healthy; just does not have a 'pot belly'. Elvyra, she is really growing on me! (she was a daddy's girl the first couple months we had her and then she would always bite! Not to be mean, but needed us to teach her not to do that and was tiring after a while) She gives me kisses at some point in the day! She ate 2/3 of a chicken heart out my hand last night (so super cool!) and I woke her up for breakfast (soup) this morning-she has the best sleepy/just waking up face and rountine! Her poops, I think, are pretty good. Reshiram is a good chunky monkey! I don't think I mentioned, the past week and a half-2 weeks he has turned more yellow again. (Maybe for a month or 2, he was almost snow white-he's albino) I have noticed he will smell like corn chips and is kinda 'greasy'...so maybe he is getting into winter mode now? He enjoyed his soup with Zekrom this morning and he has zero interest eating anything but soup-but he's pooping so he must have ate something prior to the soup (I think he is trying to be a closet eater).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2014 11:14:57 GMT -5
I think I did well at the oriental market too! I got: 3lbs chicken hearts 1.15lbs pork kidney (that's all they had left) 3 duck necks a 6 pack of golden jumbo Quail a tub of pork brains 2 cartons of quail eggs All for under $30! The quail was $11.99-is that a typical price for quail? I thought it was a little high, but I also have not seen quail anywhere else. I asked on facebook how to cut up the kidneys.....the man behind the counter said to make sure I clean them and not cut into it because it will stink. He said it a few times so.....I was scared and just put the bag in the freezer I also thought, I want to see how Zekrom does with individual proteins before I start throwing everything in there. Pork brains-they are also in the freezer When I get them out, do you serve as is or blend them? Quail eggs-I did not see an expiration date... How long *should* they last in the fridge? Can they be put in the freezer? (I thought it was a double package until I looked at the reciept and saw they were 2 packages not yet separated)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2014 11:32:10 GMT -5
How much food to serve is hard for multiple ferrets. I had amounts figured out to within 1/4 ounce when I only had 2 fuzzies, but with the 2 new ones, I'm having to guess a lot still. I've been really bad about keeping up with the food journal since the boys came home. If I had been keeping better records, I'd probably have them figured out by now. (Note to self: KEEP RECORDS!!! (headwall) ) I'm always afraid someone will be a piggie and someone else will go hungry so my strategy is to keep something in the dishes at all times. They get fed before work in the morning. My husband is usually home in the middle of the day; if the dishes are empty, he'll feed them. If I come home from work and the dishes are empty, they get more food. If they eat all of that by bedtime, they get more. Sometimes they'll get fed twice a day, sometimes 4 times, occasionally only once if they decide not to eat much on that day. This might not be of any help to you and may only confuse you further, but here's how I do that and still keep everything balanced. Warning: I tend to get long-winded, lol. When I bring home meat from the store, I chop everything into manageable chunks, chunks that are easy to hang and easy for them to eat. I label and stuff snack size baggies. Each baggie has approximately 7-8 ounces of only one kind of meat (example: turkey wing, chicken back, CGH, duck, pork heart, etc.) with the exception of organs. Organs are packaged half liver/half lung or kidney or whatever I have. Then I sort them into bins in a large freezer - bone-in, muscle, heart, organ. So I ALWAYS have ready-to-serve meals in that freezer, which is NOT handy for day-to-day serving. The meals that I'm going to serve each week I keep in the door of my kitchen freezer in 3 containers labeled bone, muscle, heart/organ. Now this is where it gets a little confusing, lol. I used to always pull out meals for a week, exactly the way we teach to do it: 1.5 meals each of heart and organ, 7-9 meals of bone-in, the rest muscle. Now though, since I don't know exactly how much they eat, I pull out meals in multiples of 10, usually 20 meals because that's all that will fit in my freezer door. The ratio of organ:heart:bone-in:muscle is approximately 10:10:65:15, which means that for every 10 meals you serve, you need 1 organ meal, 1 heart meal, 6.5 bone-in meals, and 1.5 muscle meals. So for 20 meals I multiply everything by 2: 2 meals of mixed organ, 2 meals of heart, 13 meals of bone-in, 3 meals of muscle meat. As long as they eat everything in my kitchen freezer, those 20 meals are balanced regardless of how long it takes them to eat it. I've had them eat those 20 meals in 7 days and I've had them last for 10 or 11 days. It just depends on how hungry everyone is on any given day. And before you ask, I can NOT be sure that everyone is eating exactly the right proportions of everything all the time. But I know my ferrets' habits and I watch to make sure they're all eating at least a little bit of everything. For example, I know that Leon doesn't like liver, so when they have an organ meal I hand-feed him some of the liver to make sure he gets some. I know that Slinkee is a lazy bone-cruncher, so when they have a heavy bone meal I make sure I see him eating some bone; if I haven't seen him eating any bone, they get more bone for the next meal when I'm sure he'll be good and hungry. And I just don't worry about it (easier said than done, I know). If they were in the wild, they wouldn't have a worrywart mommee standing over them saying 'eat this liver, and now eat these bones'. They would eat the parts they like and leave the parts they don't. Now what I NEED to do (and maybe typing all this out will encourage me to do this) is weigh all their food before I serve it and weigh whatever is left over at the end of 24 hours. If I do that every day for a week or so, I can average those amounts together and get a pretty good idea of EXACTLY how much they're eating in a day. Then when I portion their meats, I could put in exactly what they need for one meal and go back to serving only 2 meals a day and pulling out the 14 meals/week. That would also tell me how many ounces of organ and heart they need per week. As it is, I know their meals are balanced but I can only approximate how many ounces of each thing they're eating. I meant to comment about this...thank you so very much! I had to read it a couple times for me to grasp what you do! (for some reason, it's difficult for me to remember to percentages...it makes sense and I'll think I'll understand until I try to break it down myself-grr) This was actually the approach I was thinking about doing Now that I do have everything for a menu, I feel a little better about it. I want to make sure I have Zekrom's poops under control and figure out why Pepper is not eating...hmm. I think I need to ask Santa for a mini-freezer for xmas
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Post by Desiree on Dec 8, 2014 11:49:28 GMT -5
All for under $30! The quail was $11.99-is that a typical price for quail? I thought it was a little high, but I also have not seen quail anywhere else. My quail was 12.99. I assume you got the golden quail six pack. I'd say that is about normal. I think quail and duck tend to be expensive. I got a whole duck for 11.99 at the Asian market too. Our pricey little fuzzbutts! Also your little guys are doing so well. Mine still won't eat chunks from the plate (headwall)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2014 12:08:09 GMT -5
Thanks Desiree - yes, it was the golden six pack I swear, these babies DEFINITELY eat better than we do! Thank you and hang in there! My Zoey was SO SO stubborn in the beginning (she would spit out the soup if I dare got it into her mouth! Then I thought she would rub the fur off her chin for how long she would rub her face on the carpet! If that wasn't enough, the dirty looks she gave me also broke my heart!) BUT, when it came to CGH for the first time, she ate the bones as if she had been eating it all her life! I was shocked! So...as long as you're more stubborn than them; you'll get there! Keep up the great work!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 15:12:50 GMT -5
I gave the kids each a quail egg yesterday- Zoey was not diggin' it I guess she was too sleepy-I interrupted her beauty sleep; you know how princesses are Reshiram had a couple licks and promptly went back to the big hammock-maybe he just wanted some alone time since everyone loves sleeping ON TOP of him Elvyra and Pepper shared an egg, then shared an egg mixed with warm water and ground beef Zekrom had a few licks of both the egg by itself and with the ground beef. Once everyone was out playing, Reshiram ate a dish with an egg and ground beef (see, I knew he was hungry!) I also offered their soupies plain and with some ground beef-the one with ground beef remained untouched by this morning... So we put up our Christmas tree last night....... Ha....Ha.....Ha! Oh my did we ALL have numerous chuckles last night! I forgot that Zoey (I believe she's a marked white-she has ruby eyes and is all white except her tail and 3 spots on her head!) likes to sniff the tree, then look at me and/or my husband; then lunge at the branch and put the lights in her mouth! For about 5 minutes, all you heard was "Zoey no" "Zoey, get that light out of your mouth" "Hunny, her face is lighting up green"...Zekrom, new one this year, thought climbing IN the tree was a good idea! Well, it's actually my husbands fault because he picked Zekrom up and let him 'sniff' the branches and then Zekrom dove/slithered into the tree! For a big boy, he was difficult to get out from the branches Pepper and Elyvra didn't mind it too much. Reshiram was by Zoey's side and tried grabbing the branches with his front paws (I swear, he thinks he's part human!) but after Zoey walked away, he pounced on her and everyone was running around! Dooking was non-stop for about 15 minutes and everyone, including myself, were asleep by 10pm! Tonight the babies are having the 'raw soup' in chunk form.....poops have been pretty good! I have not seen any light colored poops (yay!) but there were a few loose poops-but I think that's because they all had soup this week and I have not offered 'real' bone since last Saturday (when Zoey threw up). I am planning on giving them a duck neck tomorrow! I hope they like it!! Edit-I let everyone out around 7pm when usually 'playtime' starts closer to 9pm. Also, I did put the 1/2 tsp of eggshell powder in the soups this week.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2014 15:21:46 GMT -5
You must have had so much fun with the tree. We're talking about putting up a tree minus the decorations and see if it helps with Keller and the others getting closer. You had so much excitement, I really want to do the tree now.
I know alot of ferrets seem to go crazy over quail egg. Mine were not very interested either.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 9:21:59 GMT -5
Zoey seems to be the only one interested in the tree ; aka she must try to take the tree down! Haha, she's so darn cute! I usually refer to her as my diva princess and she is such a 'girl'! She's so gentle and dainty-but if you're a Christmas tree, or a new ferret (because of this we're not 'planning' on adding more kids to the mix-but we also thought that way when we added Pepper=our 3rd), she is the biggest kid on the block! Haha! Thankfully trying to deter her attention elsewhere takes a little under 10 minutes, but my goodness is she a strong fisty baby! Ha...we are still debating if we want to put the ornaments on We had the biggest scare with our babies this weekend-I rushed Zekrom to the emergency vet Saturday night (why do the panic/life/death situations always happen on the weekends??). We were gone all day, so I don't know how long he was like this, but came home around 8:30pm to find Zekrom with his mouth open and drooling. My husband scooped him up and he was alert. He put him on the floor and Zekrom started pawing at his mouth. We scruffed him, looked in his mouth-nothing. Set him back down, started pawing at his mouth, ran to the usual poop corner, little bit of runny poop, then started pawing again. Looked in his mouth-nothing. Tom (my husband) put him the cage to see if he'd eat and he just layed on the floor with his mouth open. Since he was walking/running like normal, I didn't think it was a seizure but I couldn't figure out what was wrong-which was terrifying and heartbreaking! I called the emergency vet to see if they had a vet who knows about ferrets in tonight- "yes, all our vets will see your ferret"-ugh, but I needed to do something. I put 2 blankets in his carrier and grabbed an extra and we were on our way. (Of course this place is 30-45 minutes away which I guess isn't terrible, but it was the longest 33 minutes of my life) Right before we pull in, I smell poop (He has NEVER had an accident in his carrier-so that made me worry too) but we get in and they take us back right away. I'm a mess, I cannot stop crying so I can only imagine this first impression I made. I pick him up and he has diarrhea on his back legs, bum, and front paw. He had a long drool hanging from his mouth-I thought this was it. The tech held him and said she would take him in the back and set him up in a kennel until a vet could see him and for me to have a seat in the waiting room. "What, I can't be with him??" She said it gets a little crazy back there but I could have coffee and hot chocolate in the waiting room. Of course now looking back, I looked like a crazy person since I couldn't pull myself together, but my heart sank when she said I couldn't stay with him. I posted on facebook (both the holistic page and AFA) asking for prayers when the vet came out and said "Zeek-rom?" I stood up and he gave me a plastic bag with a white piece in it and said "I like these kind of emergencies-he's fine. I'm not sure what this is, it seems like bone. But it was lodged behind his top back molar which was preventing him from closing his mouth. I just plucked it out and he is just fine. He can open and close his mouth normally." This vet was a god! I had tears streaming down my face; but this time they were happy tears! I have never been so happy and relieved! It took almost a full hour for them to call me up, bill, and bring me my baby. We got home close to midnight and Zekrom drank almost half a bowl a water (They, all 5, usually drink that much over 3 days!) and I made some soupie-I didn't think to weigh it, but my guess would be he ate 4oz at least. He curled up into the tiny hammock and I swear I saw him smiling! Ah, my baby is okay! So the culprit-I gave a smashed and cut up duck neck Friday night. Zekrom was the first to the plate and happily chewed away at about 3 pieces. Now, of course, I'm petrified to give them bones. Zoey threw up, well regurgitated, last week. Now Zekrom. I don't know what I'm doing wrong? Maybe I'm smashing too much? Maybe the pieces I'm cutting are too small? I try making the pieces between half an inch to an inch long. Maybe I rushed them and they're not quite ready for bones yet? What I do know, my baby is okay-that's really all that matters! I have never been so happy to 'waste' $147 (Luckily they only charged me the emergency fee-man I thought that was a little pricey!) If anyone has any recommendations, or sympathy I did hear from a few of you on facebook and thank you so so much! My husband said "see, this is why you shouldn't be doing this raw thing. I hope you're more careful wheat you're feeding them" which hurts a little. I know he didn't mean it to be mean, but he was really worried for Zekrom too. But hearing from you all really helps! It reinforces my decision to give my babies the best life they can have I wish you all could see my babies in person-they are so so soft, and plush, and happy since they have been off kibble (and my husband has said how much of a difference the raw has made). I just hope I am doing the right things and these 2 bones incidents are just that; rare incidents. At least now, I think, I know what to look for if a bone gets stuck again
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 16:22:55 GMT -5
Thank Heavens, Zekrom is okay. I know how frightened you must have been. It sounds like you had a good vet and your crisis was averted. You poor thing, that really must have been awful. I have heard of a story here or there, where a bone has been caught in their throat. While it's terrifying, the same thing can happen to a baby who chokes on a grape or piece of hotdog. It's unusual and rarely happens, but it can happen. I'm sure your husband didn't mean to hurt your feelings, he was frightened also. That just means he cares.
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