trutan85
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Thor still "beats up" her bigger younger brother.
Posts: 192
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Post by trutan85 on Jul 14, 2014 23:36:40 GMT -5
I had temporarily stopped due to refrigerator/freezer issues. It got resolved today, so I am now resuming where I left off. Kibble is still in their diet at the moment.
Clyde does seem the most ready, loki is fine with soup and seems hesitant with chunks, but eats them, Thor is also fine with the soup but not interested in the chunks.
I'm able to start measuring their food intake now, I'm assuming I should feed them separately so I can record each ones individual intake.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 14, 2014 23:53:24 GMT -5
There is definitely a lot to try and take in, I'm sure I'll get the hang of things once I get into the routine. I have access to chicken, beef, and pork for sure. Next tome I'm at the market I'll see what else is available. I also have access to beef and chicken livers, I need to source another organ which might prove difficult, I haven't been able to find any local butchers. I did have access to chicken hearts, but I have recently had difficulty finding them at the store I purchased them from. You mentioned that they could be ordered online, do you know of a reputable site? I haven't found any other stores that carry them. If not then I'll have to purchase some taurine powder. I think that covers it. Thank you for taking the time to mentor me and assist me through this journey. Hopefully it will go smoothly for the both of us. I try to get some good pics of their faces for you. Aaannddd... I had a reply typed up and in the split second between hitting send and it actually sending, I lost my internet connection. I'm on the iPad now and I can't type properly on this thing, so I'll redo it in the morning when hopefully my computer will cooperate.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 15, 2014 9:44:00 GMT -5
Wow, technology is great when it works, but when it doesn't... I just retyped this reply TWICE, and it refused to post. So, hopefully, third time is the charm. There is definitely a lot to try and take in, I'm sure I'll get the hang of things once I get into the routine.
There is a lot to remember, but as I said, don't try to take it in all at once. You'll get it as we work through this process. I have access to chicken, beef, and pork for sure. Next tome I'm at the market I'll see what else is available. That's good for a start, but you'll want to find another source of bone-in meats. One of the reasons for needing a minimum of 3 proteins is in case someone develops IBD or a food allergy. Chicken is a common trigger, so if that's your only bone-in source, you'll have a problem. Have you checked the freezer section at the store? I found duck, quail, turkey necks, tubs of turkey hearts, and Cornish game hens in the freezer. (Technically, Cornish game hens are just young chickens, but for some reason they don't seem to cause the same problems that regular chicken can. The thinking now is that possibly it's not the chicken itself that ferrets are reacting to, but the antibiotics & hormones IN the chicken, which apparently the CGH don't have.) Others have found things like pork brains in the freezer section. Also, talk with the manager of the meat department. I found one manager who will order in anything I want. I haven't had to take advantage of that offer yet, and I may need to buy in bulk when I do, but that won't be a problem since I have a large freezer. I also have access to beef and chicken livers, I need to source another organ which might prove difficult, I haven't been able to find any local butchers. Organs are hard. Until recently, liver was the only organ required in the diet, so keep looking but don't stress too much if you can't find anything. The next most readily available organ seems to be kidney, but I haven't found them in the stores. I have a local butcher that gives me his 'trash', so I have more beef and pork liver and kidney than I'll use in a year, but the only other organs I've been able to find are chicken and turkey livers. I hate having to use supplements, but if necessary, there is an organ supplement available (Pet G.O. Organ supplement). I did have access to chicken hearts, but I have recently had difficulty finding them at the store I purchased them from. You mentioned that they could be ordered online, do you know of a reputable site? I haven't found any other stores that carry them. If not then I'll have to purchase some taurine powder.
The hearts can be from any animal, doesn't have to be chicken. Also, check on cow tongue. It actually has a higher taurine content than heart, and my furkids LOVE it. Taurine, which is necessary for heart and eye health, is also found more in dark meats than in white, so when you're shopping go for the darker and fattier cuts of meat. (Fat is used for energy, which ferrets use A LOT of, lol.) I personally haven't had to order online, but I know a lot of people use Hare Today. As far as other reputable sites, I have no personal experience. Taurine powder is something that you probably should go ahead and get. It's good to have on hand 'just in case'. Taurine is a water soluble amino acid, and excess will be flushed out in their urine. It's not something that can be overdosed, so I'd rather see them get too much than not enough. I think that covers it. Thank you for taking the time to mentor me and assist me through this journey. Hopefully it will go smoothly for the both of us. I try to get some good pics of their faces for you.
It's my privilege to help your fuzzies along the road to better health. As demonstrated both last night and this morning, my internet is a little sketchy at the moment, but I try to check in here a couple of times a day. I'm also on facebook (Gina Fountain and/or Slink E. Magoo), so you can reach me there if you want. My cell service at home is almost nonexistent, but I can pm you phone numbers if you want in case of emergency. Hopefully, pictures will help me remember who's who. While you're taking pictures, grab each of them under the 'arms' and get a picture of them dangling. That will be a good reference point for their weights and sizes. Also, you'll want to start a food journal. I'll try to find a good example to show you, but basically you just want to keep track of WHAT they eat, HOW MUCH they eat, their ACTIVITY level, their POOPS, and once a week their WEIGHTS. And now I'm crossing my fingers that this will send this time, but I've saved it to my computer just in case...
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Post by gfountain on Jul 15, 2014 10:19:41 GMT -5
SUCCESS! Yayyy!
I had temporarily stopped due to refrigerator/freezer issues. It got resolved today, so I am now resuming where I left off. Kibble is still in their diet at the moment. OK, the first thing we want to do is get enough soup into them that you can get rid of the kibble. The boys should be getting about 3 oz of soup per day, and Thor (the girl, right?) at least 2 oz. Once they're eating at least that amount, you can ditch the kibble. Generally, mine eat better in the morning than at night, so maybe by feeding soup in the morning Thor will take to it better.
Clyde does seem the most ready, loki is fine with soup and seems hesitant with chunks, but eats them, Thor is also fine with the soup but not interested in the chunks. Let's see if we can get them all to the same stage fairly quickly before we move on, just to make life easier for you by not having to prepare 3 separate meals.
I'm able to start measuring their food intake now, I'm assuming I should feed them separately so I can record each ones individual intake. For a day or so, yes, feed them separately so we can see exactly what each of them is eating. Also, weigh the kibble that you leave with them, and then weigh it again in the evening to see how much of that they're eating. You are leaving a few hours between kibble and raw, right? Feeding both at the same time can cause tummy trouble.
You said your chunks are slightly smaller than your pinky? Is that your pinky FINGER or fingerNAIL? If finger, that's a huge chunk for a beginner and Clyde is farther along than I thought! We usually gauge beginning slivers by the size of the fingerNAIL.
So either way, in order to catch Thor up to the boys, let's start back with small slivers. What is the consistency of your soup right now? We want to start thickening it up and adding slivers to it at the same time. So whatever consistency you have right now, add some slivers. Take a frozen chunk of chicken and shave some off. (Once it's shaved, it thaws really fast.) Mix just a few slivers into the soup and see if Thor will eat that. (Go ahead and give the boys more slivers than Thor since they already like them.) If she seems to be working around the slivers, try to hand feed her some of them. If she balks, do the same thing at the next meal and the next until she eats those slivers. If she eats them without any problem, then for the next meal, you want to make the soup a tiny bit thicker, make the slivers a tiny bit bigger and add a few more of them. It's a process and some ferrets move faster than others. If she doesn't catch up to the guys in a few days, we'll just move ahead with the boys and let her go at her own speed.
Your goal is to get at least 1.5 oz into each of the guys and 1 oz into Thor, both morning and evening. I KNOW that 2 or 3 oz per day doesn't sound like much food, but it IS enough. You'll just have to trust me on that one until you see it for yourself. It is so scary to leave them the first day without any kibble. My first kibble free day, I was nervous all day and actually went home from work at noon to check on him. Good luck and let me know how Thor does with the slivers!
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Post by gfountain on Jul 15, 2014 11:10:22 GMT -5
Also, while you're taking pictures, try to get a good close up of Clyde's teeth. I'll see if someone can get a good guesstimate of age for you. I can't do it yet, but others here can tell age pretty accurately by the teeth.
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trutan85
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Thor still "beats up" her bigger younger brother.
Posts: 192
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Post by trutan85 on Jul 15, 2014 19:04:34 GMT -5
Here are their pics, I hope they are good enough. Loki was a little ball of energy and didn't want to cooperate. This is Loki
This is Thor, she's the girl (ironic name, but until recently was bigger than her brother and was always dominant during play time)
And this is Clyde
I got 2 pics of Clyde's teeth, one isn't great but I'll include it anyway
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Post by gfountain on Jul 15, 2014 19:52:15 GMT -5
Awww... chunky lil fuzzbutts. What cuties they are! Ideally they will look like tubes when dangling like that, sides almost straight up and down with a little bulge on one side from the spleen. It looks like Loki and Thor are still carrying a little baby weight and kibble pudge, but that will turn into muscle mass with their diet change. Clyde looks thinner than the other 2 in the picture. Does he in real life also, or is it the angle of the picture making him look thinner? I'll send these pictures of his teeth to the 'aging experts' and see what they have to say. They may need a better view of his upper canines but then again, maybe not.
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trutan85
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Thor still "beats up" her bigger younger brother.
Posts: 192
|
Post by trutan85 on Jul 15, 2014 21:21:23 GMT -5
Clyde does look thinner than the rest.
When I prepare their soup, it's a thick pasty consistency, I add 1/4 cup of water when I purée it. I mixed in some chicken slivers, about the size of my pinky nail. Thor and Clyde of course had no problem with eating the small chunks of chicken. However Thor stuck mainly to the soup purée.
My main issue with Thor is when she hits a chunk and decides to chomp down on it, she wants to stash it away and hide it, then repeat. So to counter this, when she snatches a piece of chicken I'll hold her. Once she realizes she isn't going anywhere, she'll eat what's in her mouth then attempt to stash more. She's a stubborn one, which is odd since she was the first one to really take to the soup when I first started.
Here is what I measured their consumption to be:
Thor: 0.9 ounces Loki: 0.8 ounces Clyde: 0.4 ounces
I know that's not a lot for Clyde, but I've noticed that sometimes he'll eat a little, take a nap, then come back to the food afterwards.
Update: I left it available for them, and sure enough Clyde woke up and ate what I measured to be 0.6 ounces, shortly after I weighed it, I watched Thor go over and eat some chicken slivers all on her own.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 16, 2014 22:13:40 GMT -5
Well, the forum lost my reply from this morning.. Those amounts of soup are not terrible, better than I expected actually. Thor's a little stinker.. I wonder if she's trying to stash because she doesn't like it, or because she does and she wants to save it for later. Silly girl. Clyde's behavior is typical.. he's a grazer. My guy is too. As long as my little girl doesn't try to eat everything in sight (which she did for a couple of months), it OK. He just eats when he wants to. Raw food stays good for ferrets a WHOLE lot longer than most people think. Depending on the ambient temperature of course, soups are good for 6-8 hours. And ferrets won't eat anything that's too 'off' for them anyway. OH, I just realized you said THOR ate some slivers on her own!! Yay for Thor! So next meal, try increasing the size of the slivers a little and add a few more in. Maybe Thor just wants to eat alone. My last student was having fits getting her guy to eat slivers and chunks, working with him it seemed for hours at a time (in between playing of course) and then one day when she was fed up with him, she put the food in the cage, walked out and shut the door. When she went back an hour later, he was standing there eating with a big chunk hanging out of his mouth. He just wanted a private dining area, lol.
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trutan85
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Thor still "beats up" her bigger younger brother.
Posts: 192
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Post by trutan85 on Jul 16, 2014 22:45:09 GMT -5
I will definitely add in some more chunks for the next meal. Tonight Loki was finicky and barely ate before going to sleep, I'm sure he'll grab more once he's gotten his nap in. Clyde was his usual self, and as always Thor showed off the boys and got her meal in.
The measurements as of now: Loki: 0.4 ounces Thor: 0.9 ounces Clyde 0.4 ounces
I'll post updated measurements if I'm able to catch them chowing down more, right now they're all tucked in with the soup available when they want more.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 17, 2014 8:31:49 GMT -5
So Thor is actually eating the most, she's just working around the slivers. Is that right? Are those weights the amounts they ate for the entire day or just one meal?
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Post by gfountain on Jul 17, 2014 14:03:01 GMT -5
MyPetCarnivore.com is the another site for sourcing raw food.
Also, the experts age from the top canines, so they won't commit to an age for Clyde except "under 5". If you want anything more specific than that, they'll need a clearer picture of the upper canines.
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trutan85
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Thor still "beats up" her bigger younger brother.
Posts: 192
|
Post by trutan85 on Jul 17, 2014 23:38:52 GMT -5
Yeah, she usually just works around the slivers, that's just the amount of one meal, in the evening. I'll be able to measure their intake tomorrow morning when I feed them. They did end up finishing off their soup last night, unfortunately I was unable to catch them doing it, so I don't know what their final intake was.
I'll try to get a better pic of the uppers for the experts, hopefully I'll get the lucky shot.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 18, 2014 10:02:32 GMT -5
Are you leaving the soup in the cage with them? What about kibble? When do they have that?
I know it's frustrating to have one stuck on slivers, but just keep working with Thor to get her to eat them. I want to give her another day or so to catch on before we move ahead with the boys.
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trutan85
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Thor still "beats up" her bigger younger brother.
Posts: 192
|
Post by trutan85 on Jul 18, 2014 10:53:04 GMT -5
Yes, after sitting with each one getting them to eat I'll leave the unfinished portion for them overnight. The soup is always gone by the time I wake up in the morning, 4 ounces total based on the ideal servings you mentioned. I put the kibble in when I go to work in the morning then remove it when I get home, the days I work I'm gone for a little over 10 hours.
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