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Post by Heather on Jul 8, 2014 21:56:46 GMT -5
Name: Tom HF Forum Username: trutan85 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? I knew ferrets were carnivores before I got them. I found this forum when searching about feeding them meat and after reading the benefits, I felt I should try this with mine. 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I would like fully switch to a natural diet. I am also interested in a live, whole prey diet for them. 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? I believe they will be happier and healthier for it. I also think a natural diet is key for enriching their lives. 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? I realize that ferrets are picky with what they eat, and since they aren't used to eating meat that it'll take some time before they are able to do it. I will be committed to assisting and encouraging my ferrets to make the change. 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? I have 3 ferrets. Thor, 6 month old female, Loki, 6 month old male, and Clyde, male but unsure of his age (judging by his size to the other 2, he's older than them). I've had Loki and Thor for 4 months and Clyde for a month. 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup? Marshall Premium Ferret Diet, some Ferretone or bandit treats occasionally, and a raw egg once a week. I just started feeding them soup. 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? I tried to introduce them to thawed mice, they all turned their noses up to it. 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? I love my ferrets, and I often let them free roam. Both Clyde and Loki follow me up and down the stairs, and sometimes Clyde climbs up onto the bed in the middle of the night just to wake me up and say hi 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? All the time. 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). Hi and welcome to the mentoring program . In a little while your mentor (Gfountain), will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun :boing:. Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by gfountain on Jul 9, 2014 13:15:16 GMT -5
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trutan85
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Thor still "beats up" her bigger younger brother.
Posts: 192
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Post by trutan85 on Jul 13, 2014 8:01:01 GMT -5
Ok great, I'll need to collect up my info so I can get up to speed, once I weigh my ferrets I'll post that. I had been giving them a chicken stupid, Clyde and Loki have eaten chicken chunks that were presented to them, Thor is still hesitant so I think she needs more time with the soupie.
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trutan85
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Thor still "beats up" her bigger younger brother.
Posts: 192
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Post by trutan85 on Jul 13, 2014 8:23:25 GMT -5
I also had an unexpected problem with refrigeration that had prevented me from storing meats, but that should be resolved tomorrow and I can get back into full swing.
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trutan85
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Thor still "beats up" her bigger younger brother.
Posts: 192
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Post by trutan85 on Jul 14, 2014 17:54:02 GMT -5
Ok, here is my official weigh in. Clyde and Loki are both about 2 lbs. 12 oz. Thor is about 2 lbs. 5 oz.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 14, 2014 20:15:06 GMT -5
OK, I’m getting ready to give you a massive information overload. Read through it, but DON’T STRESS over it and don’t try to learn it all overnight. We’ll go over everything here many times during this switch. I just want to have all the basic stuff in one place so you can refer to it as necessary.
Welcome to the world of raw feeding. Since you’re here, you already know that raw feeding is the healthiest and most natural way to feed your fuzzbutts. Obviously, the MOST natural way to feed is to let your ferrets hunt for themselves, but that can be dangerous for the ferret and usually requires ‘hunting lessons.’ Live feeding is not generally recommended for most ferrets. Pre-killed whole prey is the closest most of us get to ‘all natural’, and is probably the easiest way to feed a ferret. Each whole prey meal is completely balanced in and of itself, so there is no need to measure and weigh (and worry about) what they eat. And whole prey poops are awesome in that they are complete little fur- or feather-covered packages that are easy to clean up. However, whole prey can be expensive and some of us (myself included) can’t feed anything that still has a face attached. Commercial grinds are available that, like whole prey, are completely balanced. The company simply takes a carcass and grinds it all up together – meat, bones, organs (usually not fur or feathers). This makes it easy to serve a balanced diet; however, there are no “tooth brushing” benefits with commercial grinds, and again, it can be very expensive. And that brings us to frankenprey, a very popular option for raw feeding. “Frankenprey” is a big word that simply means feeding a balanced diet with grocery store meats. It is probably the most complicated method of feeding in the beginning, because it requires thought on the part of the owner. However, once you understand the basics of frankenprey and establish a routine that works for you, it is very simple to feed your ferret a balanced, healthy raw diet.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 14, 2014 20:15:36 GMT -5
The goal with frankenprey is to mimic what a ferret would eat in the wild, with the correct balance of organs, muscles, and bones, using foods that you can find at your grocery store. Each part of a prey animal has a unique combination of vitamins and minerals that are essential to the health of your ferret. An imbalance in their diet can and will cause serious health issues, so it is critical that you plan your meals in advance to ensure that your little friends get the nutrition they need for a long and happy life.
Below are a few of the things you will need to know as a raw feeder. All of this information is located in various places on the forum, but I’ve tried to condense some of the basics here for reference. This seems like a lot of information, but believe me, once you get into the actual planning and feeding, this becomes second nature.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 14, 2014 20:16:08 GMT -5
First, raw food MUST be served, and is safe to be eaten, RAW. I know that sounds like a really obvious statement, but I’ve heard from several people that they feed raw meat, but they cook it. (I know. I don’t understand that statement either, lol.) Cooking destroys many natural vitamins and minerals in the meat and bones. In fact, cooked bones are extremely dangerous because they can splinter and perforate the stomach or intestines. Raw bones do not splinter. They pass through the intestinal tract safely and are actually smoothed by the stomach acids. They come out the other end a little rubbery feeling, and rounded with no sharp edges.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 14, 2014 20:17:46 GMT -5
The basic ratio of meat:bone:organ in a balanced diet is approximately 80:10:10. (This is just a general guideline and can vary 5% or so one way or the other.) There are 3 KINDS of foods we need to feed to meet these requirements: muscle meat, edible bone, and organs.
• Organs are considered to be any part of the body that SECRETES something. Examples are liver, kidney, thymus, pancreas, reproductive organs, lungs, brains. Liver is the easiest organ to find and should make up at least half of the organ requirement. Other organs can be very difficult to find except directly from a butcher, or from cultural markets. Neither hearts nor gizzards are organs. This is a very common misconception, so be aware of it when shopping for organs. Many meat department personnel and butchers commonly call hearts and gizzards organs, but they are NOT. They are muscle meats, AND heart is required in a ferret’s diet (more on this later).
• Muscle meat is fairly self-explanatory. It is any kind of meat that is NOT an organ, including hearts and gizzards.
• Edible bone is any bone small enough for a ferret to eat. Generally, these are non-weight bearing bones of poultry or small animals. Because we do not feed a bare bone, but rather one with plenty of meat attached, we sort of combine this category with muscle meat and call it “edible bone-in meat”. When I (or others) refer to “bone-in”, this is what we are talking about. If we refer to “muscle meat”, we mean meat that has no bone included (chicken breast, beef roast, etc.) Examples of edible bone-in meats are poultry wings, necks, backs, ribs, sometimes thighs, whole quail, whole Cornish game hen, rabbit, mouse, guinea pig. Sometimes you can find smallish bones from a larger animal that are small enough for a ferret to eat. One example is pork button bones, or pork riblets. Some of those bones are too dense, but occasionally you can find some small enough. Although the bone requirement is only 10-15% of the total diet (more on this variance in a minute), because the bone is attached to muscle meat, edible bone-in meat makes up the majority of a ferret’s diet. It is critical that your fuzzy learn to eat and enjoy bones.
In addition to the 3 KINDS of meat listed above, ferrets also need a minimum of 3 DIFFERENT PROTEINS in their diet, including at least one red meat. Examples of different proteins are chicken, turkey, quail, beef, rabbit, pork, venison, lamb, etc.
Taurine is an amino acid necessary for heart and eye health. Taurine is found in muscles that are used A LOT. This is why heart is a required part of the diet. The heart is constantly working, therefore it is very high in taurine. Heart can be ordered online if you cannot find a local supplier. Another good source of taurine if you cannot source heart is the tongue of a ruminant. Cow tongue can sometimes be found in grocery stores in locations with a large Asian or Hispanic population. If for some reason, you absolutely cannot get either heart or tongue, you can use a taurine supplement (500 mg per ferret per day). The NOW brand is a good one to use because it has no weird fillers in it.
Eggs are a very healthy addition to a ferret’s diet and help in the prevention of hairballs. Generally speaking, a ferret can have the equivalent of one chicken egg per week. (I say the equivalent of a chicken egg because quail eggs, for example, are very small and it takes 2 or 3 of them to equal one chicken egg.) Whether you want to serve the egg all at once or spread it out (a little bit several times a week) is up to you. They CAN be fed the entire egg, yolk and white scrambled together, but if you choose to only serve part of the egg, it MUST be the yolk. During shedding season, it is OK to feed eggs more often. One thing to be aware of when feeding egg is that they can create nasty stinky poops.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 14, 2014 20:18:35 GMT -5
And speaking of poop, poop patrol is going to become a fact of your life. You will likely become a little (or a lot) obsessed with your fuzzy’s litter box for the next few weeks at least, and very likely you will soon be able to tell what your ferret ate for dinner just by looking in the litter box. (You can brag about this talent to your friends if you want, lol.) A ferret’s output is a good indicator of his health, and it is how we tell if your fuzzy needs more or less bone in his diet. I mentioned earlier that the diet should include 10-15% bone. Sometimes they need a little more bone, sometimes a little less, depending on the poops. If the poops are loose, they need more bone. If the fuzzy is constipated, or poops look dry and hard, they need less bone. Blood-rich meats (hearts, organs) will cause looser poops; heavy bone meals (like chicken necks) will cause drier, more formed poops.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 14, 2014 20:19:07 GMT -5
Now, moving on the basic frankenprey menu:
The basic menu should include 7-9 meals of edible bone-in meal, 3-4 meals of muscle meat (1 ½ of which must be heart or tongue), and 1 ½ meals of organ (at least half of which must be liver). This is easier than it looks at first glance. Below is a sample menu (in the format I will want yours to be, when we get to the menu making part, once your ferret is eating all kinds of yummy stuff).
Sun AM: organ meal (liver) Sun PM: edible bone-in meat
Mon AM: edible bone-in meat Mon PM: edible bone-in meat
Tues AM: heart Tues PM: edible bone-in meat
Wed AM: muscle meat Wed PM: edible bone-in meat
Thur AM: heart/organ Thur PM: edible bone-in meat
Fri AM: edible bone-in meat Fri PM: edible bone-in meat
Sat AM: muscle meat Sat PM: edible bone-in meat
You will take this basic menu and rearrange it to suit your needs, making sure to include at least 3 different proteins. It really is simple once you get the hang of it, I promise. When I started the switch with my furkids, I spent waayyyy too much time overthinking things and getting meals ready for the week, but now it only takes 5-10 minutes each week to plan my menu and get meals in order for the whole week. I have a freezer full of meats, portioned into serving size for my 2 fuzzies, labeled and sorted by organ, heart/tongue, muscle, and bone-in. I always pull out my heart and organ requirements first, 1 ½ meals of each, then 2-3 additional muscle meat meals depending on what I have available, and then I finish the week with bone-in.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 14, 2014 20:27:02 GMT -5
Congratulations! You’ve made it to the end of this mini-book, lol! If you waded through all that information, you can do this switch! I have faith in you, so don’t feel overwhelmed by this information overload and get discouraged. We’ll do this in baby steps, and we’ll go over all this information again as it becomes necessary.
Your information from your application may be outdated since you've had to wait so long, so in order to get to know your business (ferret business that is), I'll probably be asking some questions that may be redundant. Sorry for that in advance. I understand that you've already started soups. What soup recipe are you using? How often are they eating soup? How much do they eat at a time? Are you having to hand feed or do they eat on their own? I will need pictures to hopefully help me remember who's who if you get a chance. The two that have eaten chunks - how big are the chunks? By hand or on their own? What meats do you have access to? What about heart and organs - can you source them locally?
OK, maybe that's all... for now. Looking forward to working with you!
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trutan85
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Thor still "beats up" her bigger younger brother.
Posts: 192
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Post by trutan85 on Jul 14, 2014 21:41:40 GMT -5
I had this all typed up and hit the wrong button and lost it all..... try this again.
For the soup I tried to follow this recipe.
8oz. Chicken 1 oz. Chicken liver 1 chicken heart 1/2 tsp. Eggshell powder
The amount of meat used was off as I didn't have a food scale, I do now though.
I was serving it once a day in the pm, I'm going to start feeding it in the am as well. I'm unsure of how much they were eating, I would serve half of each batch for 1 serving, served to all 3. They seemed to get their fair share, hopefully you can share some insight as to how much I should give them for a serving. I don't have to hand feed them, but sometimes set the dish on my lap and gently hold them next to it to encourage them to eat it, which they would. As for the chunks, they were slightly smaller than my pinky, I got them as small as I could, it isn't easy with big hands. The boys ate them on their own, Loki still seems slightly hesitant but Clyde seems more open and enthusiastic about it. Thor wouldn't touch them on her own, I think she needs more time to open up
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trutan85
Junior Member
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Thor still "beats up" her bigger younger brother.
Posts: 192
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Post by trutan85 on Jul 14, 2014 21:50:28 GMT -5
There is definitely a lot to try and take in, I'm sure I'll get the hang of things once I get into the routine.
I have access to chicken, beef, and pork for sure. Next tome I'm at the market I'll see what else is available. I also have access to beef and chicken livers, I need to source another organ which might prove difficult, I haven't been able to find any local butchers. I did have access to chicken hearts, but I have recently had difficulty finding them at the store I purchased them from. You mentioned that they could be ordered online, do you know of a reputable site? I haven't found any other stores that carry them. If not then I'll have to purchase some taurine powder.
I think that covers it. Thank you for taking the time to mentor me and assist me through this journey. Hopefully it will go smoothly for the both of us. I try to get some good pics of their faces for you.
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Post by gfountain on Jul 14, 2014 23:04:29 GMT -5
I had this all typed up and hit the wrong button and lost it all..... try this again.
Yep, I absolutely love it when that happens... For the soup I tried to follow this recipe. 8oz. Chicken 1 oz. Chicken liver 1 chicken heart 1/2 tsp. Eggshell powder The amount of meat used was off as I didn't have a food scale, I do now though.
Right recipe.. that's good. You do need the scale though, not only for preparing the food, but to see how much they're eating. I was serving it once a day in the pm, I'm going to start feeding it in the am as well. I'm unclear as to whether or not they are CURRENTLY eating soup. ?? I'm unsure of how much they were eating, I would serve half of each batch for 1 serving, served to all 3. They seemed to get their fair share, hopefully you can share some insight as to how much I should give them for a serving. This is why you need that scale. Weigh their food BEFORE you feed them. Then weigh it again when they're finished. Subtract the weights and that will give you a good idea of how much they're eating. Are they still eating kibble? I don't have to hand feed them, but sometimes set the dish on my lap and gently hold them next to it to encourage them to eat it, which they would. This is good. As for the chunks, they were slightly smaller than my pinky, I got them as small as I could, it isn't easy with big hands. The boys ate them on their own, Loki still seems slightly hesitant but Clyde seems more open and enthusiastic about it. Thor wouldn't touch them on her own, I think she needs more time to open up
I've found that the easiest way to sliver chicken or cut it in small chunks is while it is still partially frozen. Then you can just shave the meat off. If it's already thawed, good kitchen shears work really well. In fact, I use shears at least as much as knives in my food prep, if not more. So it seems to me that Clyde is the most ready to progress; Loki eats the soup but isn't terribly excited about it; and Thor doesn't want the soup (?) and definitely not the chunks. Is this correct?
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