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Post by katt on Aug 19, 2014 18:58:13 GMT -5
They are doing great. Keep them on the grind:chunk ratio they are at now for a few days to let them get more comfortable eating it and then we'll push them forward again. For the organs... Do one meal a day grinds/chunks with no organs (unless it is easier for you to keep the same soup, it shouldn't overload them the way we are rotating the meals), and one meal a day of soup that's about 1/3 organs and heart. Don't worry about chunks for that meal. The wanting to run off is normal - are they looking to stash at all? Do you have a feeding den?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 8:51:44 GMT -5
Yesterday evening we ate chicken meat soupie with bits, and this morning we are eating organ soupie. This organ soupie has about 45g organs for 150 grams meat, I'll upp it to a bit more tomorrow.
The chunks were eaten quite well.
They are looking to stash it a bit, I don't really give them an opportunity to. When I was just introducing them to raw in the spring, we got up to eating some slivers before I had to leave, and we had them stash some meat somewhere where we didn't find it for a couple of days. Which got sort of nasty... So now we eat under supervision.
THe feeding den is on its way. My boyfriend promised to pick it up last month, but has failed in that regard. I'll bug him some more about it. (he has the car, and I don't want to bus with it).
I have a question though. We have been giving Zack his medication in a way not associated with feeding anymore (and we are weaning him off the meds currently), but he is still very reluctant to start eating, and seems sort of nervous about it. He likes to sit in my lap while he eats, and pretends he hates the food until I force him to try it, then he eats it fine. Should I just wait until he gets a feeding den, and see if that helps? or should I do something about it earlier? I don't want to stress him with food.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2014 9:42:51 GMT -5
I blended up the organ soupie and it was eaten amazingly! even Zack ate so much! I'll be adding more liver and heart to the next one, and see if it goes just as well.
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Post by katt on Aug 20, 2014 18:53:34 GMT -5
Yesterday evening we ate chicken meat soupie with bits, and this morning we are eating organ soupie. This organ soupie has about 45g organs for 150 grams meat, I'll upp it to a bit more tomorrow.
The chunks were eaten quite well. They are making great progress! They are looking to stash it a bit, I don't really give them an opportunity to. When I was just introducing them to raw in the spring, we got up to eating some slivers before I had to leave, and we had them stash some meat somewhere where we didn't find it for a couple of days. Which got sort of nasty... So now we eat under supervision. I forget - are yours free roam? Unfortunately, stashing is just the name of the game with ferrets. They should really have 24/7 access to food. I don't free roam so it's easy for me to keep tabs on - I just close the cage when they are out so they can't get to their meat to hide it around the house. Free roaming is a bit tougher. Either way, a feeding den will be a huge help. It simulates more natural feeding conditions and helps to channel stashing (and mess!) to the den instead of all over. A den will not eliminate, but it will significantly reduce mess and stashing. As they get to bigger pieces too, you can even hook the meat into the den to make it even harder to drag off. Then you just have to learn where their stash spots are and check them regularly. Smell and attracting bugs are the 2 big issues with free roam stashing. Here's the thing with meat - it is generally good much longer than people think. Soup is good 6-8 hours Grinds 8-12 hrs Chunks: 12-24 depending on the size of the chunks, thicker chunks and bone-in chunks typically last longer Whole Prey: 24-48 hours THAT said, meat typically dries out before it goes bad. Also, ferrets are typically very good at telling when a meat is too spoiled for them to eat. Similarly to how WE know that the moldy bread or the leftovers that smell funky aren't any good, ferrets know when meat has too high of a bacterial load for them to handle. Unless a ferret is SUPER hungry, it is very unusual for them to eat a meat that is spoiled enough to cause upset or illness. What I find is this... first the meat gets a bit dry, it is still good and the ferrets will eat it. Then the meat goes through a greasy, stinky phase during which the ferrets won't touch it. This is usually when I go through stash spots and throw it out because I can't stand the smell. If I miss a stashed piece though, the meat then continues to dry. After the greasy stinky phase the meat dries out and becomes the delicacy known as "ferret jerky." THIS is their favorite thing to eat. lol At this point the meat is dried up, most of the bacteria die, and the ferrets gobble down the rather disgusting looking, mummified meat. Keep in mind that in the wild they would take their food, drag it through goodness knows what on the way to their den, stash the food, defecate/urinate on it to keep other animals away, and then leave it for anywhere from hours to weeks before eating it all. They are well equipped to handle meat that would make us wimpy humans very sick. THe feeding den is on its way. My boyfriend promised to pick it up last month, but has failed in that regard. I'll bug him some more about it. (he has the car, and I don't want to bus with it). Awesome! Have I already told you the peach can trick? I can't remember...super easy and quick way to make a den. I have a question though. We have been giving Zack his medication in a way not associated with feeding anymore (and we are weaning him off the meds currently), but he is still very reluctant to start eating, and seems sort of nervous about it. He likes to sit in my lap while he eats, and pretends he hates the food until I force him to try it, then he eats it fine.
Should I just wait until he gets a feeding den, and see if that helps? or should I do something about it earlier? I don't want to stress him with food.It sounds like he is making good progress. Some ferrets are more stubborn than others. If you want to try this though, I recently heard (you are never done learning with these guys - love it! (dance) ) that Cherie's mentee had great luck with creating an artificial "feeding den" setting. Her ferret was reluctant to be hand fed too, but would eat the food reluctantly. They started feeding him sitting inside a dark bathroom, so it was like he was in a feeding den - he started eating much more willingly! As he learned to eat it willingly in the dark bathroom, he became more willing to eat it other places as well. I blended up the organ soupie and it was eaten amazingly! even Zack ate so much! I'll be adding more liver and heart to the next one, and see if it goes just as well.Oh yay! That is fantastic! (dance) Try upping it to 1/2 and see how they do. Our goal is to get them to eat a soupie that is 1/2 heart, 1/2 organs. They will get that 3 meals a week. I'd like to get them eating heart chunks eventually, and preferably liver chunks too, but the soup is a good starting point and will keep them balanced while you focus on chunks and bones too.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 10:42:33 GMT -5
Today's soupie is more organy than yesterdays being 1/3 organ compared to yesterday's 1/4. It still went great will up tomorrow's to 1/2 organ and meat. Yesterday evening the chunks in soup were a bit more concentrated I think, or the soup was less moist, either way we had a harder time staying to eat it. My ferrets are free roam during the day, and are caged at night. I have tried leaving soup in their cage overnight, and usually it is just left untouched. It starts to get a bit dry on the surface (like you say) and by the morning it stinks. It feels like a bit of a waste to leave it there all the time when they never eat it * And I need to have Zack eat, and for me to know that he ate. I could try leaving in the soup with chunks for the girls in the cage at night, and Zack could join if he wants to. And I have found bits of Ferret Jerky before haha though no one was interested in eating it. Maybe when they get more experienced
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Post by katt on Aug 21, 2014 15:19:11 GMT -5
Today's soupie is more organy than yesterdays being 1/3 organ compared to yesterday's 1/4. It still went great will up tomorrow's to 1/2 organ and meat. Yesterday evening the chunks in soup were a bit more concentrated I think, or the soup was less moist, either way we had a harder time staying to eat it. My ferrets are free roam during the day, and are caged at night. I have tried leaving soup in their cage overnight, and usually it is just left untouched. It starts to get a bit dry on the surface (like you say) and by the morning it stinks. It feels like a bit of a waste to leave it there all the time when they never eat it [img src="http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/ .png" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/.png"].png [/IMG]* And I need to have Zack eat, and for me to know that he ate. I could try leaving in the soup with chunks for the girls in the cage at night, and Zack could join if he wants to. And I have found bits of Ferret Jerky before haha though no one was interested in eating it. Maybe when they get more experienced [/quote] Yaay on the organ soup, they are making great leaps in that department! How are their poops holding up? Soup is tough bc it does go bad a lot faster, it will be easier once you have them eating bigger pieces. The super important thing if you are only going to do meals is that they need to eat every few hours to keep their BG up, as you already know with Zack. It sounds like you are on top of that though so as long as they are doing well and the feeding schedule is working for you and them I won't over worry. I forget if I have asked this before, but have you considered leaving freeze dried food out overnight? Nights are hard bc they are so long. Once they are on to bigger chunks it will be easier to leave a bite or two in the cage without it drying up or spoiling as fast as the soup does.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 10:50:47 GMT -5
I haven't tried giving them freeze dried food. I haven't ever bought it, and I don't know if they would eat it. I also don't know which ones to buy.
But I am very happy to say that the 1/2 organ soup was as popular as if it were made of ferretone. It was half organ and half pork today. Everyone ate it perfectly even Zack. So I think I was mistaken for him not liking the liver, i think it is the chunks that intimidate him more.
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Post by katt on Aug 24, 2014 1:44:53 GMT -5
Good fuzzards! (dance) I have run into several ferrets who despise the texture of liver for some reason, it can take them a while to get over it OR you can just say well they will get muscle chunks and bones, so we can keep the organs in soup form. I do encourage people to try to push them to take chunks of liver and especially heart (it's a muscle, there isn't any reason they shouldn't be able to take heart chunks if they eat muscle chunks lol), BUT I don't argue much if people decide they want to keep their organs in puree form and choose their battles. Freeze dried is tricky...it shouldn't be hard to introduce at all. The tricky part is that like kibble, some ferrets get hooked and will hold out for it. However, it is really useful for leaving out as a snack, putting into foraging toys, emergency food supply, etc. As long as they are getting regular raw as their primary diet and the FD doesn't interfere with them wanting to eat that, it's a good thing to have them familiar with. It can be spendy but if you are only using it as a here and there thing or a tiny snack out for the day then it shouldn't hit your bank account too hard. Stella and Chewy's feline formulas are good or Wysong makes some decent FD meats too.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 10:19:57 GMT -5
I'll see about the freeze dried, when we get to the pet store. it would be nice to feed them that when we have to go away for a couple of days rather then leaving, our friends to feed them the raw meats.
We finished off our 1/2 organ half meat soup today. And the next one I'll make it 3/4 organ, and if they like that still we will try full organ soup.
Eventually I just want to give them heart and liver meals that I don't have to chop or puree. But we have to see how they take full organ soup, and then chunky organ soup first with that.
Yesterday we ate chunky soupie. Usually I add one egg for about 250-300 grams or soupie, with this one I added less, and they ate it worse for the duration that we had it (another reason it lasted so long) it was still the pork one I made 3 or four days ago.
So yesterday I just added an egg to the evening's meal of chunky soup and they gobbled it up. Miri and Zack just kept eating it forever!
But because I am adding less water to the soupies and they end up eating more meat in a shorter period of time, I am worried I might be adding too much eggs :/ They really love it when they have an egg in their food, but too much will not be that great for them and it causes funky poops. What should I do with this?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 20:30:43 GMT -5
Just bought the box to make the feeding den, and going to make an entrance for it tomorrow. I also bought a bit of chicken gizzards, not really sure what to do with them now. I was wondering if you have any suggestions, they never tried them before.
Also I saw some duck fat at the store, I remember reading someone saying something about it, but I was wondering how it gets used in the food? and whether it makes sense to buy any?
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Post by katt on Aug 26, 2014 2:35:02 GMT -5
Just bought the box to make the feeding den, and going to make an entrance for it tomorrow. I also bought a bit of chicken gizzards, not really sure what to do with them now. I was wondering if you have any suggestions, they never tried them before. Also I saw some duck fat at the store, I remember reading someone saying something about it, but I was wondering how it gets used in the food? and whether it makes sense to buy any? Ack normally I do long replies on my computer but I was out all day so I'll try to not miss anything... Egg - I would start working on weaning them off of the egg. Too much egg leads to slimy poops. The trouble is it is hard to add less than one egg. Rather than create waste I would recommend one of 2 things: make yourself scrambled eggs in the morning and add the excess of their egg to your scramble (or set aside some egg before you cook yours), or make a bigger batch of meat per one egg. The latter is a tad hard because you won't be able to increase chunk size until they finish that batch. Overall the rule of thumb is no more than 1 egg per ferret per week, and you can up to 2-3 eggs per ferret per week during shedding season as long as they don't get runny poops. So as long as you stay within the 1 egg/ferret/week, which I think you are, you are okay BUT we want to get them up to eating meat without any soup or egg or water on it anyways so they will have to be weaned off sooner or later. For the organ soup that's great! Cut back to 4 meals a week of the 3/4-organ/heart soup. If they take to full soup of half organs, half heart, no muscle meat, then you can cut back to 3 meals a week. I'm glad you want to get them in liver and heart chunks. Start adding slivers to the soup whenever you feel like it. Start much tinier than the muscle chunks they are eating so they can start to slowly get used to the texture. You can add heart chunks to their muscle meat meals too (you really can't overdo taurine), but watch out so their poop doesn't get too loose with too much heart. Gizzards are great for teeth cleaning! They are a muscle meat. They're pretty tough but you can chop them a bit smaller and add them to the slivers in any muscle meal. You could try offering them whole too (never hurts to skip steps! ) but don't be surprised if they don't take to them whole right away.mixing chunks into their meat is a great way to help them get used to the texture and get them chewin more. Duck fat...hmmm... I mean t certainly won't hurt to give them in small amounts - too much can cause runny poops. If you ever have a ferret that needs some fattening up via an extra calorie boost you can mix a tsp of duck fat into their soup or meals. I would treat t like lard or any other fat/oil and do no more than 1tsp per ferret per week to avoid loose stools. It may make for a tasty treat and may make some meats more appealing though if they really like it. And YAAAY feeding den! (dance) It may take them a bit to get used to it. When you hand feed and they try to run off with a piece, put them in/direct them towards the den. When you set a meal out, put it in the den. Let me know what they think!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2014 9:17:22 GMT -5
This morning I made them full organ soup, which consisted off 6 hearts about 100 grams of liver and one egg. The girls took to it right way in the feeding den Zack still wants to sit in my lap to eat. I spoon fed him inside the feeding den so he gets used to it, he ate quite well. For the next organ soup I will make it half and half liver and heart, and add one egg for 400 grams of meat. See how they take that, and then move on to slivers. The chunks and soup for this evening is turkey, and that usually has a lot of ligament and cartilage. The gizzards will then wait their turn for the chicken soup. Their poop is very dark and rather runny after the organ meal. I think as I wean them off the egg it should improve the consistency.
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Post by katt on Aug 26, 2014 23:20:39 GMT -5
Organ poops are typically very dark and soft. This is due to the high blood content in organ (and heart) meat and is normal. The best thing to do is just space those meals apart and follow them with a bone-in meal (when they get up to bones). For now since they aren't eating bones, you can just add a little eggshell or bonemeal powder into their organ soup to help firm things up.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 12:08:35 GMT -5
I try to add some eggshell to all their food so far, because they don't really get any bones and they need the calcium. I made them a kilo of turkey yesterday, and it should last us about three or four days. It is half pea sized chunks, and half grind, it also has eggshell and three chicken eggs in it. I added less eggs in it, as usually I would add four or five to such an amount, but only three today. It has a sort of clumpy sticky consistency. It turned out stickier and less soupy than our last one. The ferrets are not happy with this development. They are not wanting to sit and eat it. Miri and Honey sampled the food but Zack would not eat from the plate. I ended up hand-feeding everyone. I don't mind doing it, but I wanted to ask whether I should continue hand-feeding everyone until they get more comfy with this, or should I make it more soupy so that they eat by themselves? Another thing is that I put their food in the cage last night, and they turned over the plate, but there was no evidence of any food actually missing. Nasty buggers, and I had to clean it all up.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 14:25:32 GMT -5
And the feeding den is more fun to get into and have wrestling fights in. Eating is sort just an excuse to knock the meat over and get scared of it being wet
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