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Post by Heather on Jul 8, 2014 21:44:58 GMT -5
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?
I learned about raw diets from the Ferret Aid Society Facebook group, this site and the Ferret Harmony website.
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I am interested in getting my ferrets to eat whole chunks of meat - chicken wing etc. (I think this called frankenprey?). Maybe moving on to whole prey some time later, but first just getting them to eat meat.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
I believe in trying to live as naturally as possible. I have also read some very good things about feeding raw, and some much less good things about feeding kibble.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
I am willing to make the commitment. I think my ferrets deserve this from me and I know that committing to something that makes their lives better will not be a problem.
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?
I currently have 3 ferrets.
Miri - she is 5 years old, female, champagne sable. She has adrenal disease, and has the deslorin implant. She weighs just a bit less than a kilo. I have been caring for her for 2 and a half years (she moved in to my apartment then along with her previous owner).
Zack - is 4 and a half years old, male, sable. He has insulinoma, and takes prednisolone twice a day. He weighs about a kilo and a half. He is bonded with Miri (they were bought together), and I've taken care of him for 2 and a half years.
Honey - is 2 (2 and a half?), female, sable. She has not been weighed at all yet, but she looks to be about 800 - 900 grams more or less (just a bit smaller than Miri). No health problems have been notes with her. I have had her for three months now, before that she had spent her whole life at a pet store.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup?
Their regular diet at the moment includes a mixed kibble with : Zupreem, Orijen Cat & Kitten, and Wysong Epigen 90.
The treats they eat are N-Bone chew treats, and diluted ferretone (veg oil).
Zack is accustomed to Heinz chicken and broth baby food (we fed him when he was just diagnosed with insulinoma, he didn't like prescription wet food).
Miri and Honey are not accustomed to any soups (and I am hoping to change that).
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
I have been trying to give them raw chicken egg for a couple of days now.
Miri and Zack aren't very enthusiastic with it yet (Miri especially).
Honey has lapped up about 2/3 of the egg this morning.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
I have started to volunteer at the ferret shelter in Toronto these last couple of months and that opened a wide network of people and information for me. I have learned a lot about ferrets and how to care for them.
These are my first ferrets and I now realize that there is a lot that they would benefit from which I had no idea before. So now trying to rectify my ignorance.
Zack is my most gentle ferret who loves to cuddle and would sell his soul for an N-Bone treat.
Miri is the bravest and smartest, and she loves to climb into tiny places (like under the radiator and into the wall D: ).
Honey is definitely the energizer bunny of the bunch, interested in climbing, breaking, chewing; but a scaredy cat with any noises or new places.
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?
I should have access to a computer every day.
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program (wave) . In a little while your mentor (Hurricanekatt) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun (dance) . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by katt on Jul 9, 2014 1:31:43 GMT -5
Location: Anchorage, Alaska I became a mentor because... I really like helping people (hence the whole becoming a doctor thing) and animals. I am a strong supporter of a natural diet and probably bore most people that I meet to death ranting about raw diet and why it is the best way to go…this way I can rant to someone who actually cares! About My Ferrets: Koda – male, Real Canadian, I got him when he was about 8 weeks old when I bought him in December 2009, Sable. I gave him raw the second he came home and he immediately ripped into it and started hissing to keep me away from his tasty prize! Neither of us has ever looked back. He is a real trouble maker and is pretty well known around the forums as such. He is my first ferret and he has forced me to learn and learn FAST! He has managed to eat several foreign objects, and is constantly finding new trouble to get into (his nose has a rubber detector in it). He had to have an emergency blockage surgery, which (we believe) ended up being the catalyst that resulted in his IBD. He loves digging the carpet up, or more recently chewing it, has a very serious oral fixation (if his mouth can stretch wide enough for his teeth to touch it – he will chew it), he will rearrange the room to reach things, has learned how to levitate, and is an all around little monster. He is also very strongly bonded to my boyfriend and I, and can be a huge love bug. When the endless energy is finally burned off, he will curl up in our laps, give us kisses, and fall asleep. As you can tell, I have this problem where I can’t stop talking about him or taking pictures of him… He has IBD which we struggled to get control of (and finally succeeded!) with diet. He has recently had a second blockage surgery, and this week he will be getting his second Des implant for juvenile adrenal. He's been a handful, that's for sure! Kenai: male, Silver/Black Roan Mitt. I brought Kenai home towards the end of November 2010 when he was about 7-8 weeks old. He is also eating 100% raw diet, whole prey, frankenprey, meaty bones you name it! He was a tiny little bag of bones when I brought him home, but he eats like a pig and grows like a weed! He is now huge and rolly-polly! definitely a little porker - he can barely make it out of his rice box because he is so bottom heavy. lmao He finally started shedding some fur and a little winter weight and is slimming up, but he is still a clumsy critter. haha He loves, LOVES toys and is a loveable, goofy little guy and has been helping to keep Koda company and burn off each others energy! He's definitely a little spaz - I thought Koda was until I got Kenai! He's a bit of a simpleton. He has trouble finding the potty box a lot, and he doesn’t learn very fast. He also is much less physically adept at things – he has trouble climbing and getting into/onto/out of things. He is sloooowly figuring out how to control his floppy body, but he definitely has some developmental delays. But, we love him just the same. About My Natural Feeding Experience: I've been feeding raw since December 2009 when I brought Koda home, but I had started researching a few months prior to that. Thanks to this forum, I was ready for a fuzzball to come home with my freezer stocked with meats! I gave him a raw chicken wing his first night home and that was the end of that! My boys are fed frankenprey, f/t rodents, and live prey. I have been reading and learning since before I brought Koda home and learned a lot from the people here on the forum. I am always on the forum, and various websites trying to learn more about ferrets in general, and especially raw diet. My boys are healthy, energetic, have super soft fur, and smell so good that people regularly comment, asking me what perfume or spray I sprayed them (esp Koda) with! I love telling them: Thanks to a raw diet - he just smells that good naturally! When Kenai first came home he had been eating Marshall's kibble and his poops were HUGE and smelled...awful doesn't even come close to describing it! Now he smells much better and his scraggly coat has been replaced by a luxurious pile of fur. Type of Mentor: Full switches only! I feed a frankenprey and whole prey diet - raw meats, bone-in meats, ground meats, frozen/thawed rodents, live prey, and occasionally freeze dried raw and commercially ground raw. I have never fed kibble so I can’t help with picking a good kibble. I absolutely do NOT do partial switches. My Specialty: Trouble makers! I focus entirely on full switches to raw – no more kibble! I "specialize" in ferrets with IBD and food allergies, many of who may need to do food trials. I have been through quite the ringer myself in that field with my boys. I do just about any type of switch including switches to Frankenprey, whole prey (live or f/t), and commercial raw (whole and grinds) but I will NOT do partial switches.
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Post by katt on Jul 9, 2014 1:33:55 GMT -5
Hi! Glad to be working with you! Let's start out with a full description of your current feeding routine. What are they eating, how much, how often do you feed, do you free roam or cage feed, etc etc. The more detail the better. Once I am updated on that, we will go from there!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 9:49:52 GMT -5
Hello Wonderful to get to know about you and Koda and Kenai. A description of my feeding routine: The meats that I am feeding are currently turkey, chicken and pork. The meat is blended in soupies, with occasional bits in them. We have two meals per day - morning and evening. Zack eats about 40-60g of meat per meal, he also gets prednisolone administered some time near the meal because we were instructed to give it with food. This gives Zack a rather negative association with feeding time. Honey and Miri eat from 30-80g per meal each. Zack gets spoon fed about half the time, we haven't seen him go to eat the soupie if it was left in the cage. He usually needs to be scruffed or given a lick off the finger to get him started to eat the rest. Honey eats usually with my supervision. While she doesn't have an aversion to the feeding process, she does tend to leave the area very fast because her attention isn't in it. She needs to be brought right up to food with her nose before she considers eating it. Miri eats by herself and it doesn't matter whether I put put in in the cage for her or just feed her after Zack. The ferrets are more free roam than caged ferrets. They get caged when no one is home, or during the night. I either work from home or go to college that is very near by so they are out almost all the time. I was actually in need of some suggestions with the place of where to feed them. I was really hoping not to do the spoon-feeding forever. They don't regularly go into their cage to check for food. And if I leave it accessible on the level of the floor, I will have them stashing it under the couch and places.
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Post by katt on Jul 11, 2014 2:16:03 GMT -5
Hello Wonderful to get to know about you and Koda and Kenai. A description of my feeding routine: The meats that I am feeding are currently turkey, chicken and pork. The meat is blended in soupies, with occasional bits in them. We have two meals per day - morning and evening. Zack eats about 40-60g of meat per meal, he also gets prednisolone administered some time near the meal because we were instructed to give it with food. This gives Zack a rather negative association with feeding time. Honey and Miri eat from 30-80g per meal each. Zack gets spoon fed about half the time, we haven't seen him go to eat the soupie if it was left in the cage. He usually needs to be scruffed or given a lick off the finger to get him started to eat the rest. Honey eats usually with my supervision. While she doesn't have an aversion to the feeding process, she does tend to leave the area very fast because her attention isn't in it. She needs to be brought right up to food with her nose before she considers eating it. Miri eats by herself and it doesn't matter whether I put put in in the cage for her or just feed her after Zack. The ferrets are more free roam than caged ferrets. They get caged when no one is home, or during the night. I either work from home or go to college that is very near by so they are out almost all the time. I was actually in need of some suggestions with the place of where to feed them. I was really hoping not to do the spoon-feeding forever. They don't regularly go into their cage to check for food. And if I leave it accessible on the level of the floor, I will have them stashing it under the couch and places. Hi! I've only had internet from my phone all day and wanted to be able to get on my comp and type out a better reply. lol Let's start with the "easy" bit...where to feed. If you free roam, I can't really offer you much help honestly - they are going to stash food. That's just part of having ferrets, and if you free roam, they will stash around the house. :/ Unfortunately that is such a deep instinct there's no getting around it and they do NEED constant access to food, esp with an insu baby. That said, you CAN minimize the stashing. The best thing to do is to create a feeding den. It is easy and inexpensive to make. Feeding dens help to simulate natural feeding conditions and helps to direct stashing habits and minimize (but not eliminate unfortunately) stashing and mess. Once you get up to larger chunks, you can even use metal hooks to clip the meat into the den and make it even harder for them to stash. Feeding den.... Get a plastic rubbermaid bin, preferably one that is a solid color instead of transparent. I have a transparent den bc I am lazy and like to be able to glance in and see what food they have but a dark den is going to increase the chances of them wanting to keep their food in it. Take a peach can or some other metal-can that is 4" diameter. In the US canned peaches are the perfect sized cans... Anyways, empty the can, remove the paper label, and rinse and dry it. Put it open side down on a hot stove burner. USE OVEN MITTS!!!! Also, do this in a well-ventilated area if you can, certainly away from critters and kids. After a few min the can will get hot, press the hot end into the side of the rubbermaid bin (it helps to rotate it as you press) and it will melt a perfectly ferret sized hole! Voila! Cheap, quick, easy feeding den! You can use a hot nail or a drill to poke holes to run metal shower hooks (or zip ties to attach the hooks to) through so you can 1) anchor the feeding den somewhere so they can't push it around and 2) clip meat into the feeding den once they get to bigger pieces. For the hand feeding problem the short answer is YES we absolutely want to get them off of being hand fed. They need to learn to eat on their own and not be dependent on you. (giggle) The REAL question is how....we will get to that. The transition tends to require periodic hand feeding, so they will go back and forth a bit but rest assured we WILL get them off of needing hand feeding. Right now they are at the hardest point - slivers in soup. Getting them to accept chunks is often the biggest hurdle, largely because it does require some hand feeding. So with that in mind, I can't promise how soon they will not need hand feeding but we can certainly start working on it immediately. The trick is ALWAYS slow, gradual, steady changes. So every meal as you hand feed them, start to lower your fingers to a spoon, moving your hands a little closer to the spoon each meal, until they will eat from the spoon. Then, every meal lower the spoon to the bowl in the same way, until they will eat from the bowl in your lap. Then if they are really stubborn, you can work on moving the ferret from your lap, to the ground, to the feeding den. It will help a lot too if you have a set feeding area right next to the feeding den so that you can work on guiding them towards eating in the feeding den. I hope that all made sense - feel free to barrage me with questions if anything is even a little unclear! For food, I like that they are getting variety. That's good. Let's start working them up to chunks. Start adding more slivers in their soup. About the size of the tip of your fingernail. It sounds like you already have some slivers added in? About how much, what size, and how well do they take to them? Whatever level they are at, we want to move them forward. Depending on the size and how well they take them we may need to cut the size down a bit (one step back, 2 steps forward), but hopefully not. If they accept the current sliver size well then start with increasing the NUMBER of slivers a little bit every 2 meals or so, stopping at a level when they start to get hesitant to let them get used to it, then pushing forwards again. Then after a bit we will work on increasing the size of chunks. Okay I saved the trickiest bit for last....little Zack.... we REALLY need to try to reverse the association between meds and raw foods. It may be helpful to separate his meds and meals if you can work it into your schedule. Instead of giving the meds with each meal, you can give it with small snacks (so he still gets food in his tummy). This is going to be a really hard association to break. Perhaps offering a few drops of something yummy, like salmon oil, before meals and meds with snacks might help....you have to be careful to not overdo any oils though or he'll get some seriously sloppy poops. We will work on this...let me know what you think about the feasibility of doing 2 small snacks (I'm assuming he is on pred 2x daily? - correct me if that is incorrect please) separate from meals. If that isn't an option with your schedule, we'll just try different approaches. He's going to be the challenge in all of this. The insu babies are always toughies, it's like written in the ferret rule book that all insu ferrets wil be the most stubborn, tricky ferrets ever.
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Post by katt on Jul 11, 2014 2:19:32 GMT -5
Also what meds are Zack on, and how many times a day?
This may or may not be helpful, but I had Jocelyn send me her schedule that she used for her insu baby...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 9:17:54 GMT -5
Hello,
I will try getting a feeding den soon enough. Thanks for the can trick, I would probably have sawed and sanded the whole thing with a knife and sandpaper, melting it will be easier for sure.
The meds with a snack and a treat will get implemented today. we will see how it goes. He takes 0.25cc prednisolone twice a day.
The consistency of the meat I feed has chunks that range in size from slivers to bits the size of peas, they eat those just fine (Honey eats bits up to the size of 1x2cm). When we have chicken I also chop up the cartilage and softer ends of the bone into pieces about 3x4mm; they eat a good portion of those too, but prefer to leave them behind. I also add a whole egg to the soupie mixture, it ends up being about 1 egg per 400-500g of meat. (don't remember if i mentioned this before).
With the feeding ritual we are currently at the spoon into plate stage (except for miri who is on the eat everything by herself with no help required stage). I'll start asking for more specific advice with this when I get a feeding den.
We are also visiting a vet today, to check on how Zack is doing, and to get Miri checked and re-apply the deslorin implant probably.
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Post by katt on Jul 11, 2014 19:32:09 GMT -5
Hello, I will try getting a feeding den soon enough. Thanks for the can trick, I would probably have sawed and sanded the whole thing with a knife and sandpaper, melting it will be easier for sure. The meds with a snack and a treat will get implemented today. we will see how it goes. He takes 0.25cc prednisolone twice a day. The consistency of the meat I feed has chunks that range in size from slivers to bits the size of peas, they eat those just fine (Honey eats bits up to the size of 1x2cm). When we have chicken I also chop up the cartilage and softer ends of the bone into pieces about 3x4mm; they eat a good portion of those too, but prefer to leave them behind. I also add a whole egg to the soupie mixture, it ends up being about 1 egg per 400-500g of meat. (don't remember if i mentioned this before). With the feeding ritual we are currently at the spoon into plate stage (except for miri who is on the eat everything by herself with no help required stage). I'll start asking for more specific advice with this when I get a feeding den. We are also visiting a vet today, to check on how Zack is doing, and to get Miri checked and re-apply the deslorin implant probably. Sorry I don't have a better solution than the feeding den! Unfortunately stashing is just part of having ferrets by a feeding den usually helps to at least minimize the stashing! And I made my feedig den with a box cutter - melting it is WAY easier! I picked that trick up from another forum member years ago and used it to make a big litter box - super easy and works great! It's the perfect sized hole for adding tunnel attachments to as well, which is really convenient! Hope things go well at the vet! Poor little Zack. Hopefully separating the meds+a snack from the meals will help a little. If not we'll keep working on him and trying different things. Those chunk sizes sound good. Start gradually adding in more slivers (of the same size), increasing a little each mean until you get to an amount that they balk at a little, then hold steady there for a few meals before pushing forward again. As you do that you can also work on getting them to eat from the bowl instead of the spoon. Spoiled little brats! (giggle)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 0:30:29 GMT -5
Didn't get to buying the box for the den yet. But we had excellent results from the vet. She said Miri looked great and weighed more than I measured her to be, the vet weighed her to be 960g. Her blood sugar was perfect, and she got her deslorin implant renewed (this one from Texas and $100 more than the one from Australia which isn't being shipped anymore). Zack was also checked for BG and it was same as Miri at 5.5 (i forgot the measuring unit) but the doctor said it was great. Since our last visit there in the winter Zack had doubled his weight from about 900g to 1800g, she said it was probably even a bit much. With Pred being a contributor to the weight and his BG being so good we decided to wean him off the prednisolone until he starts to really need it again. I ordered up a BG monitor so I can keep an eye on his sugar levels more frequently than just at vet visits, while he is going to be off the meds. We are doing the meds + snack routine with them being separated by about an hour or so. And I have upped the amounts of the meat bits in their food. I took a photo here, I also add just a couple of tbsp of water additional to what is in the photo. They are not as comfortable with this amount of chunks yet, but they do eat them. I think this sort of size (about the size of peas) is good to stay at and get them confident.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 18:19:02 GMT -5
This morning didn't go very well. They didn't want to eat it very much at all without being scruffed. I took half of this meat that I made and blended it further into a homogeneous mixture, then put the unblended bits of meat back into that. They ate that a lot better.
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Post by katt on Jul 14, 2014 0:28:03 GMT -5
This morning didn't go very well. They didn't want to eat it very much at all without being scruffed. I took half of this meat that I made and blended it further into a homogeneous mixture, then put the unblended bits of meat back into that. They ate that a lot better. It sounds like things went well at the vet, so that's good! For the chunks, I am not sure what you mean by blending it - you mixed some blended chunks into their soup to make it thicker, and then added some slivers? Just want to make sure I am interpreting that right. lol How thick is the soup that they are getting their slivers mixed into? If they balked that much at more slivers we can step back and work on thickening the soup up more first, then increasing the slivers. There's lots of tricks we can try.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2014 7:36:41 GMT -5
The one I tried first was just cutting up the meat really small and then adding an egg and a bit of water to that without blending it, but it was too much for them.
The second try was taking half of the soup and blending it completely, then adding the slivers. So it ends up being a half puree and half bits, mixed up together.
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Post by katt on Jul 14, 2014 21:57:49 GMT -5
The one I tried first was just cutting up the meat really small and then adding an egg and a bit of water to that without blending it, but it was too much for them. The second try was taking half of the soup and blending it completely, then adding the slivers. So it ends up being a half puree and half bits, mixed up together. Oohh so you tried giving them slivers alone? That explains it! If they are used to getting soup they aren't going to go for plain slivers right away. You should make their soup, as per usual, and then mix the slivers into the soup.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 22:38:13 GMT -5
They eat the soup with the slivers quite well. Should I stay at the soup with slivers stage until they eat it well from the bowl themselves?
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Post by katt on Jul 16, 2014 0:22:40 GMT -5
They eat the soup with the slivers quite well. Should I stay at the soup with slivers stage until they eat it well from the bowl themselves? I would like you to work on getting them to eat on their own, yes. BUT what I was wanting you to do is increase the number of slivers in their soup, so don't change anything else, just add slightly More slivers than you have been. If you have a picture of their current soup so I can see what the soup:sliver ratio is or if you can give me a good idea of the number of slivers in each batch, that would be helpful.
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