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Post by katt on Jun 26, 2014 0:59:07 GMT -5
Hi Mellazarus! I'm jumping in here. BOTH of my boys have IBD. Kenai was diagnosed via biopsy after he went into emergency surgery for a suspected blockage. He did indeed have a blockage - of rancid, undigested food. Koda had just had a surgery himself for a blockage and the boys were separated while Koda was healing. The stress caused an ulcer and a massive IBD flare up that effectively slowed down his digestion to the point of causing him to become blocked. His whole GI tract just wasn't working properly. Koda was diagnosed with IBD at only a few months old. My vet told me that the ONLY reason both of their IBD's are under such good control, is because of their raw diet. If he had been on kibble, Kenai's situation would have been much, much worse. I can tell you from personal experience that IBD is a huge pain and that there is absolutely nothing better that you can do for it than a raw diet. The beauty of raw diet is that YOU control what is going into his little body. IBD can make it difficult for them to absorb the proper amount of nutrients that they need, which even when they seem to be eating normally can lead to major weight and muscle loss. Raw is MUCH more easily absorbed and more nutrient dense than kibble or other processed foods. It is also infinitely more gentle on the stomach than the abrasive dry foods and chemical ridden kibbles and processed foods. In addition, the higher moisture content of raw food helps to keep ferrets properly hydrated - this is EXTRA important in ferrets with IBD who tend to constantly be producing excess mucous (which contains water! self-dehydration in an attempt to battle the inflammation...). Another amazing benefit of raw for IBD ferrets is you can control EXACTLY what they are getting - no unknown proteins. What you need to do is go through a protein trial to figure out what meats your little one can and cannot handle. It is time consuming and takes some work, but it is SO worth it. It was only through protein trials with Koda that I was able to get his IBD under control by diet. Koda is allergic to beef - one meal gives him black diarrhea for days. He is sensitive to chicken, but handles it much better now than when he was a kit. He seems to largely have grown out of that thank goodness. With the exception of flare ups, which sometimes require antibiotics and carafate, or ulcers both of my boys' IBD is under control via diet alone. Neither of them has had to take a single dose of prednisolone - a feat which my vet attributes to raw diet. You will probably find that your little one does much better on a commercial ground diet as the ground raw is even further easy to absorb than raw already is, due to being already partially broken down via grinding. While I do not lightly encourage the use of veggie matter, many people also find that ferrets with IBD do better with a small amount of fiber in their diet. Whole prey is IDEAL for IBD ferrets. HareToday offers multiple whole animal grinds that include the fur - these would be excellent for your baby. The rabbit is a very furry grind that most people dilute with a less furry grind. I have yet to hear of a ferret who is sensitive to rabbit (though they DO always work to surprise us). I believe that the guinea pig grinds also have fur. You may also try a VERY small amount of canned pumpkin mixed into her food a few times a week. Again I DO NOT suggest this lightly as regular use of plant matter is something we try to avoid. BUT if it comes down do it, a little pumpkin in a raw diet is still far, far better than any kibble or canned food. There are also several holistic supplements that can work wonders for ferrets with IBD. Please ask if you have any Q's, I can pop in here again if needed. I know it is sooo scary and stressful when you have a baby with IBD - I have been through it twice and I deal with it daily with my boys. I can assure you though, that a raw diet is absolutely, bar none, the BEST thing out there for ferrets with IBD.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 6:21:15 GMT -5
Hi- Annie usually steers clear of any larger chunks. And I just take the pieces of bone out. Am I the only one who thought the recipe means to use bone in chicken thighs? Lately (both figuratively and literally) Annie has eaten some of the ~1/4 " chunks. She usually won't touch food in the morning, OR until ~ 10:30-11:00 pm. Last nite she ate lamb soupie which had some larger pieces of meat in it, also something stringy and grisely-I heard her chomping away on it in one of her "private dining areas" under the table. I think she prefers thinner soupie than what I have been giving her. I am giving Sophie Origen kitten and cat food kibble. She is doing better now, altho she didn't poop for a day or two afterwards. Poops look very good now. The vet said if something ha ppens again to Sophie like these last two times he would consider IBS, otherwise he thinks it is bacterial(have read some info on IBS and see that antibiotics are given for it also,so don't know what to think). the fact that she had been doing better after the first episode just on duck makes me suspicious of pork. It's just that this second time happened SO suddenly. Up to the nite I gave her pork soupie she was just on NVduck. I am thinking she was hypoglycemic bec. of the diarrhea. She has always run on the low side,vet has said nothing to be alarmed about but Mon nite it was lower, 10 points away from being considered really hypoglycemic. sounds a bit like being a little pregnant, I know. And, from living with a diabetic and having many patients with diabetes, I recognize that raw would make stabilizing her easier. Will get more NV lamb tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2014 16:18:22 GMT -5
I must say I am a little wary of putting Sophie back on raw since she never had GI problems before I started switching her. I mean she's been healthy since we got her as a kit, 61/2 yrs ago. Except for her spleen..,which was healthy but big. If I do decide to try her one more time, what's your thinking about timing-while she's still on antibiotics or after. Originally she was to stop the metronidazole Wed, but the vet told me to keep her on it another week. (= monday )And he added amoxi.
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Post by mjbez on Jun 27, 2014 22:04:24 GMT -5
When to get her back on raw if up to you. If you feel more comfortable waiting until off of antibiotics that is fine. The reason why I stressed only one protein is because we are trying to rule out sensitivities and getting her used to eating her NV reliably. Since she did fine on the duck you can stick to that to start or try lamb. Either way its very important to stick to one, and have her on it for close to two weeks, until sure bowel movements and everything is stable and good. Then, we can choose ONE more protein to add in slowly. This continues for another week or so and repeat with new protein. This way you know if one of the proteins introduced is causing an issue. Pork might be it. Chicken might be it, both might be it. But we won't know for sure until we get her stable on one. If Annie is eating the thicker soup continue with it (pieces and all). Of course she would prefer it thinner- that is so much easier just to lazily lick up Is she eating all the little pieces you are adding? If so, you can increase the size a wee bit and add a few more in. It sounds like she will be pretty good to get onto pieces, if she is eating pieces of smaller unblended meat. Unless you have a really really good blender I would no longer blend the bones btw, it is likely to burn out the motor. And like I said with the pieces, they can be a choking hazard if you miss any. I wouldn't be concerned about Annie's eating schedule unless she is losing weight. How much approximately is she eating a day? Can I also get a weekly update with weights, foods eaten etc?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 21:25:03 GMT -5
I picked up some Rad Cat frozen today in turkey
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 22:07:07 GMT -5
I still hate my computer...It does things without my wanting it to. As I was saying, I picked up some Rad Cat frozen today in turkey, lamb and chicken. I checked weights- 6/25 Annie was 2 lbs 1 oz; 6/26 Sophie weighed 1lb 10 oz. They've both lost an oz. I did not keep track of Sophie's food intake this week since it was kibble, etc. Sun 6/22: AM: did not eat anything; PM, 1.25 oz lamb soup, 14 slivers Mon 6/23 AM: 0.7 oz NV beef/duck PM 1oz pork soup,8 slivers Tues 6/25 AM: Nothing PM 0.5 oz chicken soup, 8 slivers, Wed 6/27 AM 0.5 oz NV rabbit PM 0.5 oz Bravo duck 2 small (~1/8") liver(chicken) 1 sliver Thurs 6/28 AM 0.5 oz NV beef/chicken PM 1.1 oz lamb , PM 1.5 oz lamb no slivers fri 6/29 AM 0.5 oz chicken 1.9 oz PM 1.3 oz chicken (no slivers, I didn't have time to make any up Sat. AM 0.5 oz NV rabbit, PM 1.6 oz rad cat chicken, no slivers.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 5:57:44 GMT -5
I am going to try Sophie again on lamb in a few days. I looked at the ingredients of Rad Cat lamb- meat, organs and bone,egg,eggshell,then stuff-kelp, red algae, psyllium husk,- no fruit or veggies. Can I switch between that and the NV lamb? Meanwhile, I am wondering what to do if she develops bloody diarrhea again -Is there something I can do short of the midnite trips to the emergency vet? This last happened so suddenly, but other than giving her fluids and a small amount of steroids, they sent us home. She is back to her old self, following me around the house, running to the front door or basement door when she thinks that's were we are headed- I am glad to have her back.
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Post by mjbez on Jun 30, 2014 15:29:26 GMT -5
The menu variety for Annie looks really good. Keep up on the slivers. I noticed she really varies her amounts she eats when, however, I wouldn't be concerned about his as she overall is eating a decent amount. It isn't all that unusual for them to skip a meal (especially if it isn't their favorite). The only time this is a concern is with a ferret with, or suspected, insulinoma. What I do with slivers is take my piece of meat, ex. a chicken breast, and sliver it up. I pack X amount (say 20) slivers in little baggies and freeze them. Then I just take out a baggie and add it to the meals I feed a day. I tried to make at least a week up at a time. I know the sliver stage is a pain in the butt, so this is just a little suggestion to help I am really happy you are willing to try Sophie again! Is there a reason you want to switch between rad cat and NV? I suggest picking one (either is good) and sticking to it. You just never know if there is a veggie or kelp for ex that she might not like or could flare up with. Since it is the same protein there really isnt any benefit to going between the two. In terms of the bloody stool I will double check with a senior mentor that has ferrets with IBD. I am assuming that if you were just sent home you could just keep her home - pull the food that she was eating and give her something a couple hours later that you know doesn't upset tummy (like the kibble) and make sure she stays hydrated. I will double check that for you though. However, if bloody stools persist that would warrant a vet visit.
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Post by mjbez on Jun 30, 2014 15:31:41 GMT -5
Oops- just realized the rad cat is turkey? If so NO do not switch between the two until she is settled and reliably eating the lamb with no upset tummy. I want her on one protein for close to two weeks. Then if you want to try the rad cat after that it can be introduced slowly. But we will get there when we get there
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Post by Sherry on Jun 30, 2014 18:15:26 GMT -5
I have to reinforce doing this elimination diet. It is the ONLY way you are going to discover what the real issue is. Whether it is just chicken, or if other proteins are involved, or even if the chicken is fine and it is the antibiotics FED to the chicken(yes, that will do it as well). So- one protein at a time until you know what is happening. Also record every meal, how much she ate, what her stools were like, etc. Also include anything unusual that may have stressed her out, such as not getting out of cage at usual time, cage mate picking on her, etc. It all plays a part. I kept a diary for Boris for a month and by the end of it I looked back and was able to pick out the patterns that led to his flare ups and avoid them as a result.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 22:10:46 GMT -5
I got the rad cat lamb because my pet store was out of NV lamb. It's more expensive and harder to feed, but I wanted to try Annie on the turkey, so I got all 3. She really likes the chicken and the turkey. I understand about feeding only one protein at a time,so I will stick with that when i switch her again. I was thinking about switching between the 2 lambs because its easier in the morning to feed NV, but there's so much other stuff in it, I was thinking the rad cat was closer to just meat. So me making lamb soupie(minus the bones from now on) is out for the time being? Yes, I'vs stopped getting crazy when Annie doesn't eat in the morning. Like today, barely ate in the morning, ate over an ounce tonite.
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Post by mjbez on Jul 1, 2014 18:12:09 GMT -5
Just be careful with switching between two different brands because like Sherry said it can be as simple as an antibiotic (or something else in the mix) that could trigger. If you want to use rad cat that is fine. But choose one and stick to it for quite a few days. Then you could even introduce the other brand (NV) to make sure she is good with both. They are both good brands. NV has fruits and veggies but that only makes up 5% of the overall product. I know a few people feed NV (myself included). If you like feeding NV (or rad cat, either one), why bother making lamb soupie? I'm just curious, as it sounds like a lot of work when you already buy the commercial raw version.
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Post by mjbez on Jul 4, 2014 16:54:05 GMT -5
How are things going?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2014 22:12:36 GMT -5
Pretty slow here. Annie's in another hunger strike mode, barely eating but maintaining her weight. (2.0 lbs today)Can't find NV lamb in the small sizes anywhere- So Sophie's still eating Orijen. She weighs 1 lb 15 oz(gained 5 oz). Actually I think Annie may have been snacking on the Orijen, as I was leaving it in the cage for Sophie, thinking Annie wouldn't eat it. Not sure tho, because today I made sure to remove it and Annie still barley ate anything. Food totals for this week: Sun. 6/29:AM 0.30z NV rabbit, PM: 0.750z rad cat turkey, 10 slivers, 3 1/4" pieces Mon 6/30 AM 0.75 0z NV duck,PM 1 0z chicken soup, 12 bigger slivers, 2 1/4" pieces Tues 7/1 AM Minimal amount NV chicken, PM 0.75 0z pork soupie, 6 slivers Wed. 7/2 AM 0.5 oz NV duck, PM 0.25 oz NV chicken Thurs 7/3 AM minimal amount Bravo Duck, PM 0.75 NV chicken no slivers Fri 7/4 AM did not eat any (rad cat turkey) PM 0.2 0z NV duck Sat 7/5 AM 0.25 oz NV chicken, no slivers PM: She's still eating. Your suggestion about the slivers and making a bunch at a time was very helpful- much easier.
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Post by mjbez on Jul 6, 2014 0:08:40 GMT -5
Annie definitely varies her food intake from meal to meal. I will look closer at this in the morning. Just got home from a family function and am so tired I can barely think. I have an idea about the nv for Sophie. I'll post about it in the am. glad to see Sophie gained a little weight back.
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