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Post by racheld on Jun 9, 2014 23:56:43 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm getting pretty frustrated with this vet but I don't know where else to go. I'll start giving .2 CS twice daily and see how that goes. I did do the carafate before his evening meds tonight and noticed less teeth grinding and less tension around his eyes, so that's good. I can also look for slippery elm bark--did she say what kind of dosage I should do? I do not have a BG meter yet. (My stepdad has one but it's a human one and I doubt he would want me using it for Remus.) I plan on ordering one that's made for cats when I get my birthday money next week. Do you know if there's any particular brand that's good? And when I get it, how often should I check? He started to eat chunks on his own in the cage but I had to take them away because it was right after the carafate. When I fed him a bit later he was in my lap and did well by himself, although I had to handfeed him a few. He did really well, though. Might be up to entirely slivers in the next few days.
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Post by racheld on Jun 9, 2014 23:58:08 GMT -5
Oh--and getting the des implant went well. That vet puts them under to do it so it was really easy on Remus. I'm the one who was bothered, I hate needles...
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Post by katt on Jun 10, 2014 0:13:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm getting pretty frustrated with this vet but I don't know where else to go.I would be too. I mean ulcer symptoms really don't get any more obvious than that... Where are you located? Have you seen our vet list? Jocelyn has a nice running document up with vets that forum members have used and liked - maybe you can find someone close to you there? I'll start giving .2 CS twice daily and see how that goes. I did do the carafate before his evening meds tonight and noticed less teeth grinding and less tension around his eyes, so that's good. I can also look for slippery elm bark--did she say what kind of dosage I should do?I'm glad the carafate seemed to help! Slippery Elm you may be able to find locally in a natural foods/supplements tore or the supplements section of your grocery store. Or you can get it online (links below). I sprinkle about 1/4 a capsule onto their food daily when IBD flare ups are bad (both of my boys have IBD *sigh* lucky me). Someone actually told me that you shouldn't use the powder without making it into a syrup first, but Jenn is the one who originally told me to sprinkle it in powder form. Honestly, either should be fine but if you prefer to make the syrup to be on the safe side here is the recipe (also provided by Jenn btw - she is an amazing resource, if you ever get the chance to chat with her I always highly recommend picking her brain lol): www.holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/89/slippery-elm-bark-syrup-ibdThis is the bottle that I have: www.amazon.com/Natures-Way-Slippery-Bark-Capsules/dp/B001E1232M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1402376592&sr=8-2&keywords=slippery+elm+barkAlso comes in powder form: www.amazon.com/Now-Foods-Slippery-Powder-4-Ounce/dp/B000UE25XQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1402376592&sr=8-1&keywords=slippery+elm+barkI do not have a BG meter yet. (My stepdad has one but it's a human one and I doubt he would want me using it for Remus.) I plan on ordering one that's made for cats when I get my birthday money next week. Do you know if there's any particular brand that's good? And when I get it, how often should I check?LOL Honestly? Most people just use human ones. They work just the same. All you have to do (no matter what you get human or animal monitor) is calibrate it with a vet's monitor. Home BG monitors tend to be off by a few points (1-10 is pretty usual) so whenever you go to get a BG check at the vet you can just bring your monitor with you and take a reading at the same time and compare the two to see how much yours is off by, then add/subtract that amount whenever you read it. Your stepdad's monitor may actually be really good to use if he has already calibrated it... LOL (giggle) You'd have to ask him if he has and if so how much it is off by though. You use a new strip each time, so it's not like it would get contaminated really. haha Still good to have your own probably though. Even without calibrating it, it will still give you a general idea of how he is doing. As for how often you should check, I would say that really depends on how under control his insu is. Do you know what his BG reading was before starting on meds? Has he had another follow up BG check since then, and if so what was his most recent reading? If you are making adjustments to meds, then you should ideally check every other day until you are sure that his BG is stable. If his BG is stable, then once a week or two, or test if you suspect that his BG is dropping. Be sure to check Before meals when his BG is at its lowest as you want to get a "fasting" BG. You don't want to actually fast him though as that could send him into a crash. His BG (you probably already know this lol sorry jsut covering my bases just in case) should ideally be 90 or above. In a normal ferret a fasting BG should always be 90 or above, anything 70 or below is considered insulinoma and anything 70-90 is borderline/early insu. The goal of treatment is to get him back up to normal, healthy BG levels (so 90 or above). If he is reading below that on a calibrated BG monitor, then you need to consider upping his meds. He started to eat chunks on his own in the cage but I had to take them away because it was right after the carafate. When I fed him a bit later he was in my lap and did well by himself, although I had to handfeed him a few. He did really well, though. Might be up to entirely slivers in the next few days.That is fantastic! Give him some extra hugs. Keep it up Remus! Keep the slivers about the same for a few meals, and as long as he continues to do okay with them, then go ahead and increase the amount (but not size yet) of the slivers by a little bit and see what he does.
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Post by katt on Jun 10, 2014 0:22:13 GMT -5
Let's see if this works.... Jocelyn sent me these pictures of her BG tracking journal that she had for her babies. Fraction= reading/actual (added 20 pts for calibration)
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Post by racheld on Jun 10, 2014 0:31:17 GMT -5
Calibrating a human BG meter to the vet one is another thing that the vet was against, he was very adament about getting one that's meant for carnivores. I'll probably just suck it up and get one of those. Before starting meds his BG was 54 (not a typo). After two weeks on meds it was at 104, so it seems like the meds are definitely keeping it well under control. Would you advise starting slippery elm ASAP or waiting to see how he does with carafate and CS?
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Post by racheld on Jun 10, 2014 0:39:48 GMT -5
There doesn't appear to be a vet in Michigan on the list of vets on here. There's a vet clinic at a university nearby I could look into but I know they're pricier than the office I go to right now
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Post by katt on Jun 10, 2014 3:56:17 GMT -5
Calibrating a human BG meter to the vet one is another thing that the vet was against, he was very adament about getting one that's meant for carnivores. I'll probably just suck it up and get one of those. I've never even heard of BG meters specifically for carnivores - that is absurd. All it is doing is measuring the concentration of Glucose molecules in the sample...it doesn't need to be specialized for anything. Just about everyone uses a human BG monitor - with their VET's help! Veterinarians help people calibrate human BG monitors for their insu ferrets all the time. That is absolutely absurd... Before starting meds his BG was 54 (not a typo). After two weeks on meds it was at 104, so it seems like the meds are definitely keeping it well under control. Good, 104 is great! 54....not so much. Poor Remus. Hopefully between diet and meds you can keep it under good control for a while. Would you advise starting slippery elm ASAP or waiting to see how he does with carafate and CS?I would wait on the Slippery Elm, because it's really just going to do the same thing as carafate - both are tummy coaters. It certainly is a good thing to have on hand if you have ferrets (esp if you have one with a sensitive tummy and possible IBD or food allergy issues), but I'd use the carafate for now since you have that. There doesn't appear to be a vet in Michigan on the list of vets on here. There's a vet clinic at a university nearby I could look into but I know they're pricier than the office I go to right now.Hmmm, wouldn't hurt to call and ask at least. Whereabouts in Michigan? Are you on the FB group? You may ask there as we have a lot of FB members who aren't members here. Also, you may consider talking to some non-ferret vets too. Sometimes it is better to have a less experienced vet who is open minded and willing to learn than a so-called "expert" who is set in their ways and refuses to change or to implement new incoming information. Your vet mostly seems to be somewhere in the middle, but the BG monitor and the refusal to acknowledge ulcers really has me scratching my head...
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Post by racheld on Jun 10, 2014 6:49:38 GMT -5
When in the course of his meds should I give the CS? With the carafate, or with the pred? or before he eats? does it matter?
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Post by katt on Jun 10, 2014 21:17:31 GMT -5
Give him the CS when you first take him out before you give him anything else.
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Post by racheld on Jun 11, 2014 0:10:23 GMT -5
Okay, so CS, carafate, 45 minute break, Pred? He seems a little lower energy today and not eating as much as I expected, but I'm seeing less teeth grinding. One of his poops was a little lighter today and kind of seedy. (No pic, sorry!)
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Post by katt on Jun 11, 2014 1:21:23 GMT -5
Yep, sounds like a good routine. Lighter poop and less teeth grinding are both good. Lower energy could be stress from going to the vet, or him not feeling well - keep keeping your eye on him. How is he doing with the slivers?
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Post by racheld on Jun 11, 2014 6:54:07 GMT -5
He's doing well--I still have him on the same mix. Maybe I'll increase the slivers today or tomorrow. His salmon oil got here yeaterday too so I'm gonna start adding that into his ferretone.
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Post by racheld on Jun 11, 2014 16:21:30 GMT -5
I just fed him and while he's doing great with chunks, he's still grinding his teeth a lot right after eating...I don't really notice it otherwise though. Would ulcers cause pain only when he eats and not the rest of the time?
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Post by katt on Jun 12, 2014 0:20:10 GMT -5
I just fed him and while he's doing great with chunks, he's still grinding his teeth a lot right after eating...I don't really notice it otherwise though. Would ulcers cause pain only when he eats and not the rest of the time? Yes it is common for ferrets with gastric ulcers to tooth grind when eating. Think about if you have a big sore in your stomach and then you put a bunch of food in it that moves around and touches the sore spot and then stimulates the release of more stomach acid. Eating makes them hurt. :/ Tooth grinding can also be a sign of nausea. Tooth grinding is a huge indication of ulcers, especially when eating. The video I posted of Kenai was him tooth grinding when I was feeding him when he had a bad ulcer. Kenai's ulcer was found in surgery. He was so stressed that he ended up with a bad ulcer(s) that slowed his digestion (to the best guess of the vet and I), which actually caused a blockage of undigested food. He showed every symptom of a blockage and was rushed into surgery where they found the food issue and his ulcers and took a biopsy (which confirmed IBD). Tooth grinding is number one, a sign of pain. Poor boy - how is his weight doing? Is he still eating okay or has he slowed down any?
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Post by racheld on Jun 12, 2014 0:25:33 GMT -5
He's not eating as much on his own. I haven't weighed him lately but I can in the morning. Do you think I should see the vet again and push for antibiotics?
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